Hearth Pad Worries with my P61A

[mepellet]

Now I wonder about the part that reads

Minimum permitted is 0.45 R. Example: 1â€
thickness of a material is rated at 0.52 R, which would meet
the requirement

Are they saying that any noncumbustible material of 1" would meet the requirement? With my pad being laid directly on carpet I am now worried since the OP's vinyl was scorched.

 

[DBCOOPER]

Now I wonder about the part that reads

Minimum permitted is 0.45 R. Example: 1â€
thickness of a material is rated at 0.52 R, which would meet
the requirement

Are they saying that any noncumbustible material of 1" would meet the requirement? With my pad being laid directly on carpet I am now worried since the OP's vinyl was scorched.

No they are saying a material that is rated at .52 R and was 1 inch thick would meet the requirement. It depends on the r value of the material used. I used 1 inch fiberglas duct board under cement board and tile.

Some examples...

(broken link removed to http://www.allwallsystem.com/design/RValueTable.html)

 

[mepellet]

Now I wonder about the part that reads

Minimum permitted is 0.45 R. Example: 1â€
thickness of a material is rated at 0.52 R, which would meet
the requirement

Are they saying that any noncumbustible material of 1" would meet the requirement? With my pad being laid directly on carpet I am now worried since the OP's vinyl was scorched.

No they are saying a material that is rated at .52 R and was 1 inch thick would meet the requirement. It depends on the r value of the material used. I used 1 inch fiberglas duct board under cement board and tile.

I didn't think so. I still find it hard to believe that my hearth pad is R=0...

 

[lessoil]

Check this link out:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/k_values_what_does_it_all_mean

Looks like 1" of Micore 300 Board from USG has a K value of .43(lower the better)
That alone would be fine. So if your pad is not damaged, putting 1" under your pad would work.

Hope this helps! Learned alot today!!

 

[mepellet]

Check this link out:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/k_values_what_does_it_all_mean

Looks like 1" of Micore 300 Board from USG has a K value of .43(lower the better)
That alone would be fine. So if your pad is not damaged, putting 1" under your pad would work.

Hope this helps! Learned alot today!!

I'm learning a lot today too but also getting quite confused because I still don't know why my pad say R=0? Anyone have any ideas? That makes no sense to me. And if in fact the pad the dealer sold me doesn't meet Harman's requirements shouldn't the dealer replace my pad at their cost?

 

[lessoil]

Check this link out:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/k_values_what_does_it_all_mean

Looks like 1" of Micore 300 Board from USG has a K value of .43(lower the better)
That alone would be fine. So if your pad is not damaged, putting 1" under your pad would work.

Hope this helps! Learned a lot today!!

I'm learning a lot today too but also getting quite confused because I still don't know why my pad say R=0? Anyone have any ideas? That makes no sense to me. And if in fact the pad the dealer sold me doesn't meet Harman's requirements shouldn't the dealer replace my pad at their cost?

Do you have a manufacture name/model for pad?
An R Value of zero really seems odd.

 

[mepellet]

Check this link out:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/k_values_what_does_it_all_mean

Looks like 1" of Micore 300 Board from USG has a K value of .43(lower the better)
That alone would be fine. So if your pad is not damaged, putting 1" under your pad would work.

Hope this helps! Learned a lot today!!

I'm learning a lot today too but also getting quite confused because I still don't know why my pad say R=0? Anyone have any ideas? That makes no sense to me. And if in fact the pad the dealer sold me doesn't meet Harman's requirements shouldn't the dealer replace my pad at their cost?

Do you have a manufacture name/model for pad?
An R Value of zero really seems odd.

It's just an AJ Hearth Basic
http://ajhearthoriginals.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=3

I might try to contact them to see what they say. I find it odd that it says R=0 also...

 

[nhredbird]

Sounds like were only talking Harman.
Looking at my 49-TRCPM the fire box is 8" above the floor with the ash draw in between.
I think I'll be ok but won't know till i fire it, and test the temp.

 

[mikesj]

After checking out the bottom of my pad and not seeing any damage, I think that all I need to do is raise up my pad an inch or two to prevent contact between the pad and the floor. Any suggestions for doing this? Of course, I will have to trim it out- I figure it would probably help to put a small vent in the front to allow built up heat to escape. What about just adding a layer of cement board to the bottom of the pad?

Thanks for the thoughts.

Mike

 

[mepellet]

After checking out the bottom of my pad and not seeing any damage, I think that all I need to do is raise up my pad an inch or two to prevent contact between the pad and the floor. Any suggestions for doing this? Of course, I will have to trim it out- I figure it would probably help to put a small vent in the front to allow built up heat to escape. What about just adding a layer of cement board to the bottom of the pad?

Thanks for the thoughts.

Mike

Sounds like that could work. Is yours vented through the wall? If so, how are you going to deal with that change in height of the stove?

 

[mepellet]

I wrote to the pad manufacturer and gave them the information from the Harman manual and told them which pad I was sold and they replied with the following…


I am sorry for the confusion. You need to speak to the dealer you bought the hearth pad from. If what you are telling me is correct, than the dealer sold you the incorrect hearth pad. What you need is a Type II (Thermal HH1) hearth pad. You can get the exact same product in a thermal pad. Thermal pads are a little more expensive than the ember protection pads but it is the correct pad that you would need based on the information you gave me.

Again, sorry for the confusion.

A. J. Manufacturinging, LLC


Shouldn’t the dealer provide and install an acceptable pad at their expense? I am sure that the pad would have been acceptable prior to the update to the manual as lessoil stated above, but the dealer and installer should be keeping up to date with the stove requirements…

 

[mepellet]

After checking out the bottom of my pad and not seeing any damage, I think that all I need to do is raise up my pad an inch or two to prevent contact between the pad and the floor. Any suggestions for doing this? Of course, I will have to trim it out- I figure it would probably help to put a small vent in the front to allow built up heat to escape. What about just adding a layer of cement board to the bottom of the pad?

Thanks for the thoughts.

Mike

Sounds like that could work. Is yours vented through the wall? If so, how are you going to deal with that change in height of the stove?

Correction- I remember there to be some wording on my hearth pad sticker saying to not add material to increase the R value of the hearth pad..... It appears that in the past Harman thought ember protection pads (no R value) were acceptable but they have since updated the manual to require thermal protection pads (which also act as ember protection from what I read). Probably for the exact reason you are have noticed the scorching of the flooring. I wonder if any fires were started because of the use of ember protection pads instead of thermal protection pads...

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Just for the sake of argument, I would use a piece of 3/4 Plywood as a base, cover this with 3/8" inch cement board and then add a layer of 3/8" ceramic tile to finish it off.

I have seen all sort of safe hearth pad arrangements done.

A fabricated angle iron frame 2 inches deep with a bottom of 3/4 plywood, then filled to within 1/2 inch of the top of the frame with a cement grout, then topped with the ceramic tile to give a nice look.

There is no way that any heat will get through that to the floor.

Going over carpet can be a tad dicey unless you have a really good heat insulator like cement of heavy ceramic tile.

Check it out well and be sure your going to have it well insulated.

Fire is our friend, but if it gets loose, its a nasty little creature.

Be safe

Snowy

 

[mepellet]

Shop finally called last week to say that they got the new thermal protection hearth pad in. Swap out was today. Told them to call before they came out so that I could make sure my wife was at home. They didn't. Two guys arrived in a white van with no markings. She said it only took them about 10 minutes from start to finish and it looks like the same exact pad. I should have made an identifying mark on the pad before they came in. I will have to inspect it tonight when I get home from work. How do you think they swapped the pad in only 10 minutes? I thought they would have to disconnect the vent & OAK, remove the stove from the old pad, replace the pad, put the stove on the new pad and reconnect the vent & OAK. Oh and there better not be any smoke smell when I start it up..... I am not too impressed with my stove shop so far....

 

[Melissa220]

I have my stove on plain old bluestone lying right on our hard wood floor. I will have to give it a feel near the stove bottom to see how hot it really gets.

I just ran my new P43 for 90 minutes at 90 degrees for the initial start up. My hearth pad is hot around r
The base. I believe harman is requiring some fireproofing materials in pads used under their stoves now.

 

[tsmith]

My new Accentra was just installed on my carpet setting on nothing but the cast iron hearth pad that Harman sells for the Accentra. I was told that is all I needed for proper protection.

 

[Melissa220]

My new Accentra was just installed on my carpet setting on nothing but the cast iron hearth pad that Harman sells for the Accentra. I was told that is all I needed for proper protection.

So maybe what I was told was particular To my Harman. My manual says I need a k-factor of 2.24 or lower and mentions Durock. Of course this is all Greek....

 

[papa bears stove]

I believe that Harman requires a higher R value on its pad due to their feeding technology as hot embers do make it in the ash pan which translates to more heat in the bottom of the stove and pad. Definitely make sure you are getting the correct pad installed because should you have a fire the insurance company is not obligated to give you a penny as the stove was not installed to code or manufacturers specs. This would leave the responsablity on the home owner. In regard to the Accentra, take a look at the base and you can see that there is a piece of sheet metal that the stove sets on and a space of air underneath the sheet metal that is used to keep the heat from transitioning through the pad and to the floor. In most areas we have to remove the carpet before setting the pad down as the weight of the stove will cause the board to bend and potentially crack.

 

[Don2222]

That's funny the manual I just consulted says nothing about the material other than that it be fireproof and as of the sizes you mentioned. But maybe I missed it.

My Avalon Astoria manual states:

Floor Protection Requirements
• The heater must be installed on a non-combustible floor protector extending the full width
and depth of the heater and extending 6" in front (minimum 27-3/4" wide by 31" deep)
(minimum .018" thick - 26 gauge) .
• Must extend under and 2" to each side and rear of a "Tee" (if used).

Smokey you are correct in what your Sarnac manual states!
Page 15 Step 2 see > > http://www.hudsonriverstoves.com/pdf/saranac.pdf

2. Install a non-combustible hearth pad underneath the unit. This pad should extend
at least 6” (152 mm) in front of the unit.

 

[nailed_nailer]

Are you sure you are seeing scorching of the linoleum .
I have a carpet runner/area rug in my kitchen that causes my linoleum to turn dark brown under it.
If I move the runner the discoloration disappears in a few days of sunshine.

Not saying you don't have a burn mark but it could be a chemical reaction from the bottom of the hearth pad and the flooring.

---Nailer---

 

[Lousyweather]

I believe that Harman requires a higher R value on its pad due to their feeding technology as hot embers do make it in the ash pan which translates to more heat in the bottom of the stove and pad. Definitely make sure you are getting the correct pad installed because should you have a fire the insurance company is not obligated to give you a penny as the stove was not installed to code or manufacturers specs. This would leave the responsablity on the home owner. In regard to the Accentra, take a look at the base and you can see that there is a piece of sheet metal that the stove sets on and a space of air underneath the sheet metal that is used to keep the heat from transitioning through the pad and to the floor. In most areas we have to remove the carpet before setting the pad down as the weight of the stove will cause the board to bend and potentially crack.

yea, the F/S Accentra is the only Harman to have an optional pad that carries the UL rating of the stove.....all the rest, you need to follow what the manual states......the most recent one is here:

(broken link removed to http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/P61A.pdf)

 

[Lousyweather]

My new Accentra was just installed on my carpet setting on nothing but the cast iron hearth pad that Harman sells for the Accentra. I was told that is all I needed for proper protection.

actually, there shgould be a steel insert that fits in that hearth pad, just beneath the stove....you'd never see it after installation....hoping the installer did this.....as well as put the bolts in the floorplate of the Accentra itself...(seen those get missed)

 

[mepellet]

So maybe what I was told was particular To my Harman. My manual says I need a k-factor of 2.24 or lower and mentions Durock. Of course this is all Greek....

A k-factor of 2.24 equals an R value of 0.446. What does the hearth pad say? Sounds like they want a thermal protection board not just the ember protection.

 

[tsmith]

actually, there shgould be a steel insert that fits in that hearth pad, just beneath the stove....you'd never see it after installation....hoping the installer did this.....as well as put the bolts in the floorplate of the Accentra itself...(seen those get missed)

I'm sure they installed the metal plate underneath, but what bolts are you referring to in the floor plate?

 

[Lousyweather]

I'm sure they installed the metal plate underneath, but what bolts are you referring to in the floor plate?

there are two bolt holes which are uses to secure the Accentra to the shipping pallet. You will see these holes, or the head of two bolts (either or) if you remove the ash pan and look right at the floor of the stove.....right about in the middle of the base plate of the stove