Haywood Pool Pump - Trapped Air & bubbles in the leaf trap?

[Ashful]

I have problems with over-chlorination, anytime I leave my solar cover on too much. Even with santizer set at 0, the chlorine level slowly creeps up, to the point where I just installed a bypass valve around the sanitizer.

If I shocked mine, and then left the cover on for a week, I fear I'd come home to a pool with chlorine levels still too high to use.

 

[stoveliker]

If chlorine is going up, something is supplying it.
So your setting of 0 is suspect to me. Does the thing work properly?

My chlorine levels are constant or go slightly down when covered.

 

[Don2222]

same here. but just in case i shock it before i leave so in a week i come back to a clear pool

Hello
I always put in the closer kit in the fall so when I remove the cover in the spring there is a nice clear pool to start adding and balancing the chemicals. Works great as long as I am careful to get the cover off without dumping in any dirty water from the cover in it!!

 

[Ashful]

If chlorine is going up, something is supplying it.
So your setting of 0 is suspect to me. Does the thing work properly?

My chlorine levels are constant or go slightly down when covered.

I think this sanitizer is designed so that a "0" setting is still emitting a small amount of chlorine. It's a brand new unit, with no obvious signs of malfunction, I think it's just a quirk of its design. It's a Frog Leap, which is a pretty nice system, as it allows running less than half the usual chlorine ppm... and no one loves chlorine. So, when I say chlorine is running high, I mean it's above 2.0 ppm, which is still in the normal range for traditional systems.

Last year, I dealt with this by removing the chlorine cartridge from the sanitizer, anytime it was running high. But then I'd be stuck storing an open cartridge, and checking chlorine levels once or twice every day to know when to reinstall it, which was not ideal. This year, I installed a proportional bypass around it, so when it's set to 0 and still running high, I can just throttle a little bypass water around it, to knock chlorine injection down even farther.

Been sick as hell the last few days, but still managed to finish up all plumbing mod's yesterday. Cover has to come off today, since water is being delivered tomorrow.

Pull return and skimmer plugs today, or wait until after water delivery tomorrow? Lines have a bit of antifreeze in them, which I'll want to direct to waste port, and avoid that washing back into the pool.

 

[stoveliker]

Sorry, only back home now - parents from NL are over.

If all plugs are accessible when the pool is filled, I'd leave them in until the water is in. Otherwise the turbulence of filling might make some antifreeze get into the pool water.

Maybe I'm too late tho.

 

[Ashful]

Sorry, only back home now - parents from NL are over.

If all plugs are accessible when the pool is filled, I'd leave them in until the water is in. Otherwise the turbulence of filling might make some antifreeze get into the pool water.

Maybe I'm too late tho.

Sort of... I pulled the plugs and installed the return jets yesterday, but the water truck hasn't arrived yet this morning. I was thinking the same as you, but then realized there's about 4 feet of drop from returns or skimmer, directly down the outside wall of the pool, since the pool is set into a hillside and the side of the pool containing the lines and equipment is totally above ground. I already flushed the skimmer line out yesterday with a garden hose, which leaves the returns to flush, but the 4 feet of vertical standpipe off each return should be totally dry, with just a bit of antifreeze at the far end. I can just undo a coupling or get creative with my valve settings to flush that out (eg. back thru sanitizer with lid removed), and think I can keep the pool clean.

One thing that was a surprise to me is that all the plugs and jets stored in the pump basket had mold on them. Makes sense, since the basket was in the pump, which has a clear top (sun) and there's antifreeze in the lines. But it's bizarre everyone seems to recommend storing the stuff here. Seems it would make much more sense to put that basket in dry storage, rather than leaving all that stuff in the pump.

 

[stoveliker]

I leave the pump open for a few weeks to let it dry out. After that it's harder to get mold.
On the other hand, your sanitizing and filtering is well able to handle all that as likely each day the pool collects and produces more than all that.

 

[Ashful]

So, our forecast has gone from daily highs around 80F to daily lows around 30F. Several nights at or below freezing forecast for the next week.

So, what's the risk, and what's the mitigation plan? I imagine just keeping the pump running is the biggest factor, the water is presently at 62F, so no risk of freezing in any large volume. But do I need to worry about places where small volumes of water can be trapped and frozen, such as the pressure gauge port in the multifunction valve?

 

[EbS-P]

So, our forecast has gone from daily highs around 80F to daily lows around 30F. Several nights at or below freezing forecast for the next week.

So, what's the risk, and what's the mitigation plan? I imagine just keeping the pump running is the biggest factor, the water is presently at 62F, so no risk of freezing in any large volume. But do I need to worry about places where small volumes of water can be trapped and frozen, such as the pressure gauge port in the multifunction valve?

Our system has been fine down to the teens at night with pump running. As long as highs are above freezing we don’t worry. Just turn the pump on and connect a hose from the slide valve back into the pool and open it. I think we put a folded tarp over the the pump and filter when it was down to single digits.

 

[Ashful]

Thanks EbS-P. Figured as much.

But hose? Side valve? Mine returns to pool underground. No place to connect external hoses.

 

[Don2222]

Update: 6-15-2023 since 8-16-2023 only 10 months and stored in a warm non freezing garage all winter!! Hope this holds up better? What do you think?
This video have me an idea to add plumbers tape to the plug threads.

This is the second time the Hayward pool pump drain plug leaked in just 10 months!! So this time I heated the screw driver tip with a heat gun / hair dryer to burn a slot in the core of the plug to unscrew it out with a flat blade screw driver. Even though the original plug did not have plumbers tape, this time I put Blue Monster PTFE plumbers tape around the plastic threads because the washer that comes with the plug does not seam to seal as well!

 

[stoveliker]

You sure you didn't scrape the threads with filter sand or DE and that's why it's leaking?

 

[Don2222]

You sure you didn't scrape the threads with filter sand or DE and that's why it's leaking?

It is a sand filter and since this plug is on the base of the pool pump on the return side, it is no where near the filter sand. I think the new plugs are not very strong plastic. If I had a nice Metal Lathe I would make my own plug out of steel or aluminum! 🥶

 

[stoveliker]

I've had a leak in the filter before and DE came in the pool, not in quantities noticeable in the pool, but I could see it in the strainer of the pump.

 

[Don2222]

I've had a leak in the filter before and DE came in the pool, not in quantities noticeable in the pool, but I could see it in the strainer of the pump.

Where was the leak??

 

[stoveliker]

The filter (that holds the DE in the filter housing) - different system as a sand filter.

 

[Ashful]

So, quick lesson on PTFE tape, for anyone who's not a plumber:

Pipe threads are (generally) tapered, and seal by a tapered male tightening into a tapered female fitting. But, because threads have a small flat at their crest, and a small radius at their root, the seal is not perfect... there is a "spiral leak path" in all tapered threads (excepting specialty NPTF, etc.). PTFE tape is designed to fill this spiral leak path, as well as providing a lubricant that helps prevent galling as the tapered fittings are drawn tight.

But PTFE tape should not be used on any other type fitting, most of which rely on an O-ring, flat rubber washer, compression ring, or flare to seal. In all of these fittings, the thread is NOT part of the seal, but rather just providing the mechanical clamping force to the o-ring, flat washer, compression ring or flare seat.

The fitting shown in the video appears to be an o-ring fitting, meaning tape will not help with, and in fact it likely to interfere with the actual sealing of the fitting. If she found it helped, then it's either because the O-ring was missing, damaged, or the o-ring seat was damaged.

You should be applying a silicone-based o-ring lube to these o-rings and threads, every single time you remove and re-install them. This provides lube to the threads, to prevent galling or snapping during removal, but also lubes the o-ring to prevent tearing, and to allow more tensile force per torque (same reason torque spec's on bolts go down when lubed).

One tube will last most people 20 years:

Amazon.com

If that woman found the PTFE tape helped her in any way, this is likely via lubrication. If she was not lubing the fitting with o-ring lube, then the dry fitting probably couldn't be tightened properly. Adding PTFE tape does help lube, albeit with other problems, but that may be helping her get more pressure (tensile) on the o-ring for a given applied torque.

Also, store your plugs out of sun for winter. Few things embrittle plastic like UV exposure!

 

[stoveliker]

The drain plugs on Hayward pumps are not pipe thread for sure.

Indeed I use silicone on every oring each time inset up (and when I store for winter; keeps things supple - maybe overkill but I like it).

 

[Don2222]

So, quick lesson on PTFE tape, for anyone who's not a plumber:

Pipe threads are (generally) tapered, and seal by a tapered male tightening into a tapered female fitting. But, because threads have a small flat at their crest, and a small radius at their root, the seal is not perfect... there is a "spiral leak path" in all tapered threads (excepting specialty NPTF, etc.). PTFE tape is designed to fill this spiral leak path, as well as providing a lubricant that helps prevent galling as the tapered fittings are drawn tight.

But PTFE tape should not be used on any other type fitting, most of which rely on an O-ring, flat rubber washer, compression ring, or flare to seal. In all of these fittings, the thread is NOT part of the seal, but rather just providing the mechanical clamping force to the o-ring, flat washer, compression ring or flare seat.

The fitting shown in the video appears to be an o-ring fitting, meaning tape will not help with, and in fact it likely to interfere with the actual sealing of the fitting. If she found it helped, then it's either because the O-ring was missing, damaged, or the o-ring seat was damaged.

You should be applying a silicone-based o-ring lube to these o-rings and threads, every single time you remove and re-install them. This provides lube to the threads, to prevent galling or snapping during removal, but also lubes the o-ring to prevent tearing, and to allow more tensile force per torque (same reason torque spec's on bolts go down when lubed).

One tube will last most people 20 years:

Amazon.com

If that woman found the PTFE tape helped her in any way, this is likely via lubrication. If she was not lubing the fitting with o-ring lube, then the dry fitting probably couldn't be tightened properly. Adding PTFE tape does help lube, albeit with other problems, but that may be helping her get more pressure (tensile) on the o-ring for a given applied torque.

Also, store your plugs out of sun for winter. Few things embrittle plastic like UV exposure!

Wow - Thanks for all the info on that!
I have some pool lube, that the pool company recommends so this should work.

 

[Don2222]

Next Day update.
I got another drain plug this time it is the Haywood OEM drain plug for their pool pump. This has an O-Ring not like the aftermarket with the flat rubber washer. Then I used the pool lube on the O-Ring gasket and plug and screwed that in. There was also a very small drip leak on the pool pump supply hose coming from the pool leaf skimmer. Therefore I replaced that hose and finally got all the bubbles out of the pump!!

Pic 1 - Haywood filter & pump.
Pic 2- OEM Haywood above ground pool pump drain plug
Pic 3 - Aftermarket pool pump drain plug with flat rubber washer.
Pic 4 - old aftermarket pool pump broken drain plug where head snapped off. Possible reason is that there was no gasket lube on it.
Pic 5 - Bubbles in the pool pump basket!
Pic 6 - Pool pump basket clear with No Bunbles!!

 

[Ashful]

hey Don,

Yeah, that stuff from Leslie's should work great. It looks like the Super Lube version, just re-labeled for Leslie's. I think that's one of the thicker varieties, which I prefer, just like the Parker flavor I posted above.

A lot of the silicone o-ring lubes provided by pool companies are more watery, like gear oil, and must be reapplied every single time (hence my instructions above. You'll find the thicker varieties may stay put well enough to last a few uses, but there's rarely any harm in just reapplying every time.