Haywood Pool Pump - Trapped Air & bubbles in the leaf trap?

[Don2222]

Hello - Oh No - Bubbles in the Bug Basket!
Has anyone had the problem of trapped air or air bubbles in the pool pump leaf trap?
I noticed it this year and I could not get rid of the trapped air?
There are no air bubbles going into the pool in the return line so it is not that bad but from my experience, I know it is not right and not good for the pump motor.
I used pool Lube on the ends of the hose that went from the skimmer to the pool pump it did actually help the issue by making a better seal.
Still not like it used to be, see pics 1-2
Then I found the culprit. The pump plug was dripping water very slightly! So I tried tighten it with a slotted screw driver and snap!! The head broke off and it was leaking more! When I turned the pump on, I could really see it sucking in air! There was a lot more air in the pump gasket! Luckily the local pool supply has a pack of 2 for this Haywood pool pump!
I lubed it up with the pool Lube and bingo after putting the new plug in and tighten it snug but not over tighten the problem was completely resolved! Fixed!

Pic 1&2 - Air & bubbles in the pool pump leaf trap
Pic 3 - broken plug
Pic 4 - New plugs
Pic 5 - new plug installed
Pic 6 - No more bubbles!

 

[fbelec]

it's just about the end of the pool season but i have a little air in the basket this year was not that way in past years. thanks for the hint i will rebuild everything this end of the year. mine is also spiting out sand into the pool. when i put new sand in the filter everthing seemed ok. it happened last year too. covers for the winter seem to be my biggest headache. just can't seem to keep water in the pool after a winter. the rain and melted snow tend to push the water out. so i put a hose from the lowest hole which is my return, that didn't do it. i put a hose from my supply to my return that didn't do it. there is no leak from my liner. i just keep siphoning the water on top of the pool cover out when i can. pool pillows are a joke i get maybe a year out of a pillow and it's junk. i'm doing everything the cover says to do but think that is useless also

 

[Don2222]

Did you try putting a pvc ball valve on the skimmer and closing it for the winter?
Also to fix the sand issue you may need a new spider gasket?
See link to spider gasket replacement here

Haywood Pool Filter Handle very hard to move and backwash port leaking. Is it junk?

Hello This Haywood S166T pool sand filter is about 22 years old. Turning the handle is very hard like it is about to seize up! Also water started leaking out of the backwash port. After a little research I found there are 2 OEM fixes. 1. Replace the multi port valve & handle assembly $149.95...

www.hearth.com

 

[fbelec]

no but i had a hose from the water inlet to the pool from the filter hooked to the skimmer and i it jus let the dirty water from the top of the cover to the water in the pool that is usually crystal clear and smells like the shock i put in at the end of the the year before. i just can't win. i think the cover has a hole in it but i can't find it. it seem to be big enough to let in leaves. i am so cafeful pulling it out not to lets the top water find its way into the pool. the covers can't take to much sun. it acts like a cheap tarp on top of the wood it just delaminates. right now i have two other covers covering pallets of wood one of the covers is junk.

 

[Ashful]

I'd guess any air leak upstream of the pump is going to cause air to enter the system and appear in the pump basket.

My first summer with a pool, and I'm really sweating closing this year, as any freezing or cracking any of my skimmer or return components means jackhammer and heavy equipment. It's an above-ground pool product, but set into a patio and built into a hillside, as a rather complicated semi-inground.

 

[Rob711]

You could run a garden hose just above a trickle over every connection starting at the front of the pump, if there is a leak the bubbles will go away with the water. Or close it and worry about it in the spring!

 

[vbu]

covers for the winter seem to be my biggest headache. just can't seem to keep water in the pool after a winter.

I use a cheap cover pump, turns on and off by itself. If you get it in the right spot it'll pump down all the water from the cover without moving it around. I leave it plugged in all winter. The first year it was a pain in the butt due to the 'filter' aka a piece of foam in it. It would always clog up. I've left it out for several years now and it hasn't hurt the little pump

 

[Ashful]

I have a permeable cover, and the pool co actually told me to leave some water on it, to keep it from flapping in the breeze. Only pump it down if it starts to get too deep, whatever "too deep" means. The cover lays on the water, snaps into a track around the pool coping, with a perimeter skirt that follows the line of the pool wall down to the water.

I'm guessing the goal is to keep the water atop the cover still slightly below the skimmer, but as we can get up to 3 feet of snow in a single storm on very rare occasions, and 6 inches to 1 foot pretty commonly, I'm guessing this first winter is going to be a learning experience.

 

[vbu]

Interesting. To me that sounds like a guarantee for green water when you open it back up in the spring, unless the water only goes from the pool on to the cover and not the other way around? One year I didn't keep up with the pump and quit using it, and the water on top of the cover was green. It's always a major pita to get that water off the cover, without getting it in your pool. Even the slightest little bit of green water in your pool will make it look terrible. After that, I've kept up with the pump and have had clear water since. The only chemicals we used this year has been chlorine and baking soda to bring the Ph level up.

Also, it's very deceiving as to how much water is actually on top of that cover. 1" of water is a massive amount.

What procedure are you supposed to follow to open your pool back up in the spring?

Dealing with the stupid cover every winter has me not ever wanting an above ground pool ever again, it'll be an inground pool at the next house, or no pool at all. They make really nice covers for the above ground ones, that you can even walk on (kid safety thing)

 

[Ashful]

This is in-ground, but modular with coping like an above ground, hiding under the patio paver coping. I may switch to a trampoline cover in the future, anchored into the patio. But this came with the pool package, so it's the plan for now.

We'll see how things go in spring. I do know I'll be opening it before the water gets up to 65F, as that's where you want chlorine and pumps running, so we'll likely be opening it a few weeks before the weather is warm enough to have anyone interested in using it. That should give some time to get things right, even if it's sour when we first pull the cover.

1" of water on this pool is around 300 gallons, not terrible in the scheme of a pump that can do a few GPM, but not nothing.

 

[vbu]

Oh okay I gotcha. Much nicer than the setup I'm dealing with.

Yeah, you think the last little bit of water is nothing, so you just jump in real quick and lift the cover out. Be careful doing that, as it may be much heavier than you anticipated and you may end up tearing up your cover, ask me how I know...

 

[Ashful]

I’ve decided that the day you deflate and pack away all the pool toys, and prepare for closing, is the second most depressing day of the year.

January 2nd is still my front-runner, though.

 

[Ashful]

Hey guys, first winter with a pool, here. The manufacturers of each piece of equipment (pump, heat pump, filter) recommend moving the stuff indoors for winter. But I'm really not interested in undoing all the hard wiring and giving up a lot of indoor space for storing this crap.

I was thinking of building a simple knock-down shed, that I could assemble over and around the equipment pad each winter. Easy enough, I have similar for some of the tractor implements I choose to store outdoors. But I'm struggling with what roof to put on the stupid thing. Corrugated sheet metal roofing is light, but hell on bare hands and clothing when moving, and it gets dinged up way too easy. Asphalt is both to heavy and too delicate for transport and storage. Polycarbonate corrugated panels might work, no experience with those. Likewise, a rubber membrane over 3/8" plywood might make a nice light and durable roof.

Ideas? She is roughly 7 feet wide x 4 feet deep, with the roof slope in the 4 ft. direction. In other words, one of the 7 ft wide walls is taller than the other, the two 4 ft wide walls are the gables.

 

[Ashful]

Answering my own question, but just remembering I have a bunch of fiberglass left over from the last boat rebuild, I think I may make the roof sheathing from 1/4" luan covered in glass and resin. Tough, light, waterproof!

 

[Ashful]

Okay, guys. First spring with a pool, and I'm finding very little useful advice on when I should schedule my opening. Most sites say something like, "when temperatures are above 70F", with no reference to whether that's the daily low, daily high, or average. Our temperature will hit 77F late today, but we are still 40-50F every morning. Our range for this week is 40F to 80F.

One site actually said "consistently above 70F", but that's like 3 weeks in July for us. We are below 70F nearly every morning, the rest of the summer.

 

[stoveliker]

I open mine when it's above 60 for the lows. But I don't have a heater and am used to the North Sea...

You have a heatpump, so I'd experiment with when the heat pump can maintain a decent pool temperature (limited or not by how much kWhs you are willing to pay for depending on whether that's a factor in the decision).
That depends on whether you cover the pool at nights; no need for insulating covers, as evaporating water is the largest heat loss from a pool.

(And I'm surprised you have lows above 70 for only three weeks...)

 

[EbS-P]

Get everyone a wetsuit pants and open it as soon as you can stay in for at least 5 minutes.

We don’t schedule it. We get the chemistry right usually the beginning of April and the kids end up “falling in” some time way before that he grownups think it’s warm enough

 

[stoveliker]

for sure; we now have the family tradition of a polar plunge. This happens sometime in May. And family means those below 16 years old.

 

[EbS-P]

We get over 85 by August. If we had a heat pump we’d be running it in cooling mode.

 

[fbelec]

to bad your not getting the advise you need. it all depends on the individual. keep the bubble cover on it. it will keep the evaporation down to decent levels until it gets above 85 pool water degrees then take it off and leave it off or it will be to warm. to stay in it for a while it needs to be in the seventies pool water degrees otherwise it won't be used. i have twins one kid doesn't mind it cool the other won't stay in it for more than 5 minutes if it is below 78. so it's all up to the individual. sorry that doesn't help.

oh and the chlorine won't dissolve if the ph is not in the right spot. keep the ph where it's supposed to be and the chlorine and if you need to put other chemicals in it will be minimal. everytime i would put chemicals in i needed more chemicals. as long as i keeped up on the ph and chlorine i was good and the water was crystal clear. i would shock it when a lot of people were in it at the same time or it started to look like it needed it.

 

[Ashful]

Thanks for the advice, guys! I called the pool company and spoke with the head salesman, who said he'd actually open now. He said the little bit extra I spend in electricity and chemical for opening early, will be less than the expense and time involved in getting a green pool clear again, by waiting too long. He argued that with the water and weather so cool right now, actual chemical usage will be extremely low, and I can just set the variable speed pump at a very low rate to minimize electric usage.

This advice may have been swayed by the fact that we had four straight days of 80F highs in our forecast next week, at the time we spoke, which is extraordinarily warm for us. Of course, in our usual fashion, that forecast has already been changed very substantially, down to 3 days at 70 - 75F.

Some answers on the other comments:

You have a heatpump, so I'd experiment with when the heat pump can maintain a decent pool temperature (limited or not by how much kWhs you are willing to pay for depending on whether that's a factor in the decision).

The heatpump is undersized, IMO. I like to keep the pool around 85-87F, and this heat pump can't even maintain that in mid-summer, with our typical overnight lows around 55F - 65F, unless I cover the pool every night. On the plus side, forcing me to actually cover the pool every night is probably saving me a boat load of money on heating costs.

I experimented a little with a chemical called "Cover Free" last year, an evaporation inhibitor. It helps a bit, but I usually keep the variable speed pump running low all night, which probably impacts its ability to settle on the surface and do its thing. More experimentation necessary, if I really want to use this instead of a cover.

That depends on whether you cover the pool at nights; no need for insulating covers, as evaporating water is the largest heat loss from a pool.

My plan is to get the pool opened, and then throw the solar cover on it. I'll leave the heat pump turned off, at least until it's warm enough outside that people actually want to use the pool. The early opening is all about avoiding the green swamp water, and testing out some of my new plumbing mod's early, not about using it early.

(And I'm surprised you have lows above 70 for only three weeks...)

Actually, it's worse than that. I just checked our climate data, and even through July our average lows are only mid-60's:

Month / Ave. Low
June / 60F
July / 65F
August / 64F

We don’t schedule it. We get the chemistry right usually the beginning of April and the kids end up “falling in” some time way before that he grownups think it’s warm enough

Yep, that's our plan. But we have to get a very dirty cover off, first. Not the mesh type on anchors, but a tarp type that has a bead lock under the coping. It hold water, leaves, lilly pads, algea... a real mess. Any advice?

We get over 85 by August. If we had a heat pump we’d be running it in cooling mode.

We can get there with the heater and/or solar cover on, but without we'd hold mid-70's all summer. It's just not that warm, here.

to bad your not getting the advise you need. it all depends on the individual. keep the bubble cover on it. it will keep the evaporation down to decent levels until it gets above 85 pool water degrees then take it off and leave it off or it will be to warm.

I bought our solar cover around Aug.1 last year, installing it each evening after the kids were done, and leaving it on probably until early afternoon the next day. I'd guess it was installed maybe 16 hours per day, and we never got above the high-80F's. I suspect that July could push us into the 90F's, if I keep the cover installed during the heat of the day, but that's not our goal.

One related question: If we go on a summer vacation, I think it best to leave solar cover off? Figuring it'd be better to have the pool temp go too cool than too hot, in terms of chemical stability. Managing the chlorinator levels with the cover on is a bit of a thing, since it always wants to overshoot, due to lack of UV exposure and evaporation.

oh and the chlorine won't dissolve if the ph is not in the right spot. keep the ph where it's supposed to be and the chlorine and if you need to put other chemicals in it will be minimal. everytime i would put chemicals in i needed more chemicals. as long as i keeped up on the ph and chlorine i was good and the water was crystal clear. i would shock it when a lot of people were in it at the same time or it started to look like it needed it.

Interesting. We've been running the Frog Leap system, which allows chlorine to stay at just 0.5 - 2.0 ppm, versus a standard chlorine system at 2.0 - 4.0 ppm. I actually had so much trouble keeping the chlorine that low last year, after installing the solar cover, that I would end up removing the chlorine pack for several days at a time. This year, I installed a proportional bypass valve around the sanitizer, so when the lowest setting is still over-chlorinating, I can partially or fully bypass it.

 

[stoveliker]

I experimented a little with a chemical called "Cover Free" last year, an evaporation inhibitor. It helps a bit, but I usually keep the variable speed pump running low all night, which probably impacts its ability to settle on the surface and do its thing. More experimentation necessary, if I really want to use this instead of a cover.

I run the pool pump during the day (at 100 W; variable speed is fantastic as the impedance of the water through the piping goes up squared with flow speed, so running low costs a lot less energy for the same volume filtering - though it takes much longer) because that's when algae start growing (needs light), and I "catch" them immediately.
Moreover, during the night I don't want to stir the pool when the water is warmer than the air, as it increases heat loss through radiation. (And through evaporation if not covered - and of course that's then the biggest heat loss.)

My plan is to get the pool opened, and then throw the solar cover on it. I'll leave the heat pump turned off, at least until it's warm enough outside that people actually want to use the pool. The early opening is all about avoiding the green swamp water, and testing out some of my new plumbing mod's early, not about using it early.

I never have swamp water, even if I open in June. Why? Because my winter cover is light blocking. The algae I have floating around in the air (on trees!) here does not like to grow in the dark. (I don't know if there are algae that do grow in the dark.)

Actually, it's worse than that. I just checked our climate data, and even through July our average lows are only mid-60's:

Month / Ave. Low
June / 60F
July / 65F
August / 64F

Dang.

Yep, that's our plan. But we have to get a very dirty cover off, first. Not the mesh type on anchors, but a tarp type that has a bead lock under the coping. It hold water, leaves, lilly pads, algea... a real mess. Any advice?

I use my "scooping net" during the winter to scoop stuff off the cover and use a cover pump to pump off the water when needed (in winter that means when it reaches up to the skimmer as I don't want that to freeze; in warmer weather I do it sooner than that to avoid algae growth on top of the cover and to avoid musquito breeding there).

I bought our solar cover around Aug.1 last year, installing it each evening after the kids were done, and leaving it on probably until early afternoon the next day. I'd guess it was installed maybe 16 hours per day, and we never got above the high-80F's. I suspect that July could push us into the 90F's, if I keep the cover installed during the heat of the day, but that's not our goal.

Do you have a cover roller system (don't know the name) - just a big pole you wind the cover up on? Makes the summer frequent (un)covering much more easy.

One related question: If we go on a summer vacation, I think it best to leave solar cover off? Figuring it'd be better to have the pool temp go too cool than too hot, in terms of chemical stability. Managing the chlorinator levels with the cover on is a bit of a thing, since it always wants to overshoot, due to lack of UV exposure and evaporation.

I specifically put the cover on when I leave. Even if going to Europe for say a month.
Yes it's warmer, but there's less light (the solar cover is more to absorb visible light and radiate IR into the water than to get the sunlight into the water), so less algae growth. Also less debris ends up in the pool this way (which are the major algae starters) that needs to be broken down by the chlorine.

THose are my few cents based on how I do things here.

 

[EbS-P]

We leave the pump on low year round. Salt water chlorine generator board has had to been replaced twice with a generating cell once it’s probably due for another replacement soon. This will be the 10th summer.

 

[Ashful]

I run the pool pump during the day (at 100 W; variable speed is fantastic as the impedance of the water through the piping goes up squared with flow speed, so running low costs a lot less energy for the same volume filtering - though it takes much longer) because that's when algae start growing (needs light), and I "catch" them immediately.

Interesting. I've never tried turning down anywhere near that low. I don't remember the exact watts/RPM ratio, probably nonlinear, but I'm running 2250 - 3200 RPM, throughout the day in summer. This will be my first spring running, so have no history there.

Moreover, during the night I don't want to stir the pool when the water is warmer than the air, as it increases heat loss through radiation. (And through evaporation if not covered - and of course that's then the biggest heat loss.)

I've been debating just programming a shutdown midnight to 6am, or thereabouts, but have not tried it.

I never have swamp water, even if I open in June. Why? Because my winter cover is light blocking. The algae I have floating around in the air (on trees!) here does not like to grow in the dark. (I don't know if there are algae that do grow in the dark.)

My winter cover blocks light, but being dark blue, the surface water is already quite warm on every sunny day. We were holding 49F a few feet down, as of yesterday, but probably high-70's right at the surface.

Dang.

Yeah, we're a good bit south of you (between Philly and Allentown), but also much farther inland. Our normal daily low/high swing is probably much higher than yours, and our yearly low/high is probably also higher. We see everything from a few nights below 0F to a few afternoons above 100F, many years. The majority of our weather is 20F to 95F, though, with a typical day/night swing of 20-30F.

I use my "scooping net" during the winter to scoop stuff off the cover and use a cover pump to pump off the water when needed (in winter that means when it reaches up to the skimmer as I don't want that to freeze; in warmer weather I do it sooner than that to avoid algae growth on top of the cover and to avoid musquito breeding there).

I've been doing the same. I use a siphon pump to empty water off the cover after each rain event, but it always leaves a foot-deep pocket right around the sump head, as well as isolated pockets of water on top of the cover at the stair flap. Not sure how to get rid of them, short of a wet/dry shop vac.

I also blow it off as much as I can with a leaf blower, when it's dry, and skimmed most of the leaves off after the fall leaf drop... but it's still a mess.

Do you have a cover roller system (don't know the name) - just a big pole you wind the cover up on? Makes the summer frequent (un)covering much more easy.

For the solar cover, yes. It's a bit wonkey, due to our pool being a freeform shape rather than rectangular, but it works well enough. But the winter cover just gets dragged off, then folded up and put into a tote for the summer, after cleaning it.

The biggest challenge with the winter cover is always getting it off the pool while draining minimal dirty water from atop the cover into the pool. I checked today, and the pool water is still clean/clear, despite the mess on top of the cover.

We leave the pump on low year round. Salt water chlorine generator board has had to been replaced twice with a generating cell once it’s probably due for another replacement soon. This will be the 10th summer.

Wouldn't work here, even with salt. We typically have at least a week with lows below 10F, and quite often a few nights below 0F, each winter. Keeping skimmers and plumbing from splitting in that cold is a real issue. Everything must be blown dry, then usually back-filled with a bit of RV antifreeze. This ain't exactly Fairbanks, but it's not the tropics, either.

 

[fbelec]

I never have swamp water, even if I open in June. Why? Because my winter cover is light blocking. The algae I have floating around in the air (on trees!) here does not like to grow in the dark. (I don't know if there are algae that do grow in the dark.)

same here. but just in case i shock it before i leave so in a week i come back to a clear pool