Harman XXV Installed

[SoCal65]

u sure that smoke might not be coming out of that block-off plate from the hearth? Im sure you didnt just stuff the pipe up thru the damper and leave it, right? the damper is AT LEAST blocked off?

This is dealer installed. There is a cheap zero clearance fireplace behind the black sheet metal. They had to remove my original damper when the lined the 8" inch existing pipe with the four inch stainless steel liner. The 3" inch stove pipe comes from the back of the stove thru the sheet metal and into another elbow. I am not sure where the 3" to 4" pipe adapter is.

I don't see any smoke coming from behind the sheet metal with the flashlight trick. I did find a leak right at the back of the stove. The T pipe was installed with compression fit onto the stove.

I can't find high temperature metal tape or silicon tape. Loews and Home Depot have the aluminum stuff, no temp rating. Where can I buy this tape?, brand name? 3M? I can see a half inch ash line on the pipe right behind the stove. I have high temp silicon.

 

[buildafire]

In your first photo with the Xs you showed where the smoke was coming from. It looks like that elbow is broken. They come from the factory pretty tight, but if they're handled too rough, the joint seams get leaks and they're almost impossible to fix Because they have two walls, the leak could come from any interior joint and leak to any exterior joint, so it's like chasing a radiator leak from the outside. You might have to take the elbow off and fix it from the inside. Clean it out then put a nice coat of high temp silicone around the inside of each joint. Not easy unless you have small hands. Hopefully the exhaust temp doesn't get to 600 degrees. That's when the silicone fails. I've tried to fix several of those leaky elbows with metal tape and it only holds for a while. By the way, that stuff you saw at HD is the right stuff. I haven't seen hight temp metal tape. You might have to replace the elbow... not cheap. Others might have a better solution...

 

[HarryBack]

actually, as per the last posted pic, you might be better served by using the adapter Simpson Duravent makes rather than just having the tee stuffed onto the stove nipple. The adapter has an extended ss internal portion that is meant to go INTO the nipple of the stove. If you RTV it in place, it usually doesnt leak, in fact, to remove said adapter, you'll have to try really hard, likely destroying the adapter...but they are less than 20 bucks, and I cant see why someone would want to remove it.

And not to be a nitpicker, but is there any RTV on that stove/pipe union as pictured? If there is, the dealer did a bangup job in cleaning it...I like seeing a smooth even bead there at the junction.....messier, but it wont leak.

 

[SoCal65]

And not to be a nitpicker, but is there any RTV on that stove/pipe union as pictured? If there is, the dealer did a bangup job in cleaning it...I like seeing a smooth even bead there at the junction.....messier, but it wont leak.[/quote]

Nothing is on the stove/pipe union. It is just a compression fit. That is why I am looking for the metal tape. Should RTV be on there?

I sure do like to stove so far. The heat feels a lot better the forced hot air that comes out of my ceiling registers "The central system is designed to cool not heat".

Thanks for the replies.

 

[elkimmeg]

I have to correct what Build d fire recomended HVAC tape isadheisive is only good to 150 degrees then the adeisive melts and it is useless as a seal
What Harry is talking about is 600 degree tape not found at home depot and yes alll pipe joint require sealing I wonder if they used RTV behind that plate? on the Joints

 

[buildafire]

Thanks for the correction, elk... good to know.

 

[HarryBack]

Yea, thats what I thought too, Elk. The fit mentioned above is really no more than a butt joint...nothing selas it...the nipple of the stove goes into the pipe, maybe 1/2"-3/4", but nothing seals it......it'll for certain leak in the future. You might think the sotve wont get moved or bumped, ot whatever, but it will, and it'll leak. I guess I dont really understand why the pipe ISNT RTV'd. What possible reason could there be for not doing so? No good ones come to mind. The pipe used....3" Simpson Duravent....is a twist lock pipe, so if you tape a later joint, it'll still be removeable.

In short....yeah, I think it should be RTV'd, AND taped.

 

[SoCal65]

Yea, thats what I thought too, Elk. The fit mentioned above is really no more than a butt joint...nothing selas it...the nipple of the stove goes into the pipe, maybe 1/2"-3/4", but nothing seals it......it'll for certain leak in the future. You might think the sotve wont get moved or bumped, ot whatever, but it will, and it'll leak. I guess I dont really understand why the pipe ISNT RTV'd. What possible reason could there be for not doing so? No good ones come to mind. The pipe used....3" Simpson Duravent....is a twist lock pipe, so if you tape a later joint, it'll still be removeable.

In short....yeah, I think it should be RTV'd, AND taped.

I don't know why my stove was installed this way. Did they leave it this way "no RTV and tape" to make cleaning and maintenance easier? Is it okay to have the "T" right off the back of the stove? Wouldn't an elbow give less resistance. I am glad that Hearth.com taught me that I should not have any smoke smell on startup. I am concerned about C02 build up "young kids in the house". Especially when the cold months get here and the stove is running 24/7. Hopefully I can get this resolved soon.

I ordered the 3M Hitemp Flue Tape 2113 1.5in. X15ft. 600 degree tape from hardwareworld.com. It should be here Friday. I also found some silicon tape at Home Depot in the hot water tank section. It is rated for up to 500 degrees, web site www.Tycoadhesives.com. I am planning to use this tape Monday to go over all of the joints inside the house. I'll go over them again on Friday with the 3M metal tape, sound ok?

 

[SoCal65]

and yes all pipe joint require sealing I wonder if they used RTV behind that plate? on the Joints

I don't think they sealed those joints either. If those joints need to be sealed I will call them back and request that they redo the whole installation. All pipe joints from the stove to the first piece of pipe outside should be sealed?

The dealer "they are a good bunch of people, good guys to do business with". But these installation issues......hmmm

 

[HarryBack]

just try the silicone tape...foreget the metal tape for now

 

[seaken]

It is strange to see the pipe set up that way. I would have set the T section on it's side and then made the transition to the 4" liner behind the panel with the stainless steel 3" snout to 4" Flex tee and cover. No 90* adjustable elbow needed.

Anyway, ALL the joints must be sealed. It is a positive pressure vent system. There is no excuse not to seal the entire vent system. I would trim the outer collar of the 3" pipe (tee section in this case) so that the inner pipe extended into the collar of the stove (or use a collar adapter but that adds another 3" of length). That joint gets silicone and is drilled and screwed in place. The Tee cap is sealed with gasket and it is also siliconed on the outside. The joints in the elbows get siliconed with clear ATV.

I think the installers were cutting corners.

Sean

 

[SoCal65]

I think I had too much back pressure from too many 90's. The old setup had the tee off the back of the stove, then up into a 90, back horizontally straight through the panel and into another 90, then up the chimney. The tee cap was leaking, then the seam on the back off the tee was leaking. I gave up then.

The dealer came out and changed my install. The tee pipe is gone. I have a 45 off the back of the stove, straight pipe through the panel (it goes up and back diagonally), and another 45 connects to the 3 to 4 inch increaser and the long pipe that goes up the chimney. I am sealing the new joints that I can reach. This set up looks a lot better to me.

Two questions
1. Can I take off the pipe strap in the firebox to seal a joint then put it back? Is most of the weight of the pipe supported at the top of the chimney or on this 3/4 inch strap?

2. The 4" pipe is sealed at the top of the old 8" zero clearance fireplace pipe. The old 8" damper was removed to make room for the four inch liner pipe. Is the sealing at the top enough? Is this a heat loss area especially when the stove is not running? Can it be insulated or blocked off at the bottom too? if so, what material?

The stove is performing well. All of my fun has been with the venting. = |

Thanks, I am almost there.