Harman TL 300 Users

[LisaP]

Yes, it does thanks for the advice

 

[MishMouse]

James,

Thanks for the advise.
I to am going to be burning less then seasoned wood starting sometime in late Feb.

 

[James04]

Mishmouse

I remember when you PMed me when you first got your stove. I am glad it is working out well for you. Especially with all this global warming we have been having. Ya gata love that grill!

James

 

[Seasoned Oak]

As per the flue pipe temp above the AB Im trying to come up with a formula to tell if the AB is lit up since you cant really see whats going on with a full load of wood in the stove. Im thinking that the stove temp may go down a little but the flue pipe temp should go up with the afterburner makng extremely hot fire out of the exhaust gas, thats why they need all that refractory material in there in the lower half of the AB and only near the flue pipe exit is there any bare steel to siphon some heat off the flue gas.

Not sure if the cast Oakwood and the steel TL300 behave exactly the same, but I think you're on to something here. If the AB kicks in, I agree: I think you should see your stovetop temp drop and your flue temp rise.
One way to find out - I'm picking up a second thermometer tomorrow!
It was one of the first things I thought of when I got the thing cranking - man, I must be losing a few BTUs w/ the afterburn right in the back by the flue collar. Makes a good case for not having this stove set back in the fireplace like mine is.

I have been away from the forum for quite some time. Therfore I have not read through this entire thread yet. So I do not know if this has been addressed. I have had my stove for a year and a half now. What I have found is that the stack temperature is the key to knowing what the AB is doing. My probe is I think 24" above the stove collar. One I get the stove up to temp and I then let the stack get up to about 1200. I then open the air full open, close the bypass and listen for the roar. If I get the roar I leave the air full open for ten min. The temp on the stack should have dropped below 1000. I then cut the air down to the half way mark and let it stay there for 10 min. IF the stack temp stays above 600 I can then continue to gradually close the air at ten min intervals. The key being to not let the stack temp drop below 500 to 600 deg. Sometimes it will continue to AB below those temps but it is a gamble. The sure thing is to maintain at least 550. I keep cutting the air until it is fully closed or if it is cold in the house on the first notch. Once the load starts burning down and there are less volatiles left in the wood the stack temp will start to drop and the stove top temp will increase until some point were the fire start to die down from all the fuel being used up.

James

--------------------
As i do not have an internal flue gauge, i have to go by my stove top temp. AB goes out at about 350-400 stove top On start up i engage anywhere above 500 and then temp may drop to 450 and hold
But there are other ways to tell if you have good afterburn
No 1 is I stack the wood as to create a tunnel from front to back so i can see the AB chamber, so its either dark(not firing) or lit up like the 4th of july (working)
two other ways to tell when you can not actually see it is
There is a distinct sound like you water pipes make when there is hot water going through them a series of tings like metal expanding.
And one more is when you put your hand on the top of the back cover just below where the stack comes out of the stove, before you start your AB this area will be cool to the touch, once your AB kicks in after a few minutes you can only touch this for a second or so. THis test is about fool proof. It makes sense cuz before you engage the AB this area is shielded by the bypass door, and once you engage the AB the hot flue gas is passing right next to this area.
Also when you engage the AB , if it looks like the fire has gone out , your too soon, either the stove is too cold or you do not have suffecient coal bed, if your AB lights your fire will slow down a bit but not drastically.
Always when you add new wood the stove temp goes down a bit until that wood comes up to temp and burns off the moisture,so i always open the air all the way until the stove temp recovers.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

James,

Thanks for the advise.
I to am going to be burning less then seasoned wood starting sometime in late Feb.

----------------------------
I learned the hard way to keep a set of leather gloves handy(like small welding gloves) when adding wood to the stove as i got a couple burns on my wrists from touching the rim of the top loading area while adding wood.

 

[James04]

--------------------
As i do not have an internal flue gauge, i have to go by my stove top temp. AB goes out at about 350-400 stove top On start up i engage anywhere above 500 and then temp may drop to 450 and hold
But there are other ways to tell if you have good afterburn
No 1 is I stack the wood as to create a tunnel from front to back so i can see the AB chamber, so its either dark(not firing) or lit up like the 4th of july (working)
two other ways to tell when you can not actually see it is
There is a distinct sound like you water pipes make when there is hot water going through them a series of tings like metal expanding.
And one more is when you put your hand on the top of the back cover just below where the stack comes out of the stove, before you start your AB this area will be cool to the touch, once your AB kicks in after a few minutes you can only touch this for a second or so. THis test is about fool proof. It makes sense cuz before you engage the AB this area is shielded by the bypass door, and once you engage the AB the hot flue gas is passing right next to this area.
Also when you engage the AB , if it looks like the fire has gone out , your too soon, either the stove is too cold or you do not have suffecient coal bed, if your AB lights your fire will slow down a bit but not drastically.
Always when you add new wood the stove temp goes down a bit until that wood comes up to temp and burns off the moisture,so i always open the air all the way until the stove temp recovers.

Trump,

Seems like this is working for you. The only problem I see with it. Once the stove has cooled to tell you you have a problem it is too late and you need to open the bypass back up and retry. Were the probe in the flue gives you the actual pulse of the AB and if it is starting to stall you will see it and can open the air up in response. For $15 or $20 I think it is well worth getting the probe thermometer for the flue. I never even look at the stove top temp unless I am curios. Although if starting from a dead cold stove it can help with gouging when to kick in the AB.

James

 

[LisaP]

Trump,
How do you like the fireplace screen? We are using the grill for the first time this weekend. My husband is cooking brats on it for super bowl- out to be interesting.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Trump,
How do you like the fireplace screen? We are using the grill for the first time this weekend. My husband is cooking brats on it for super bowl- out to be interesting.

==============
When in fireplace mode you can not use the AB ,bypass door must be open but you get a lot more radiant heat anyway, great for roasting marshmallos.

Also a note to anyone with a TL-300 who does not have an optional blower, Im heating a home under construction right now and i need all the heat i can get (not yet insulated and some walls are not even drywalled yet.) I would venture to say the heat output is doubled with the blower running, i do not use it when first starting the stove as it delays the initial heating up to temp, but after the stove is at operating temp , without the blower i would think you are losing a consideral amount of heat in the form of elevated flue temp, instead of heating the house. Just my opnion but i think the Blower is a must with this stove, and its also adjustable high speed when on full air and low speed when on restricted air. Also it prevents overheating of the stove ,if my stove top starts to climb toward 600 or higher i turn the blower up higher.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Update on the use of the Blower fan
On overnight burns with low air settings, the blower is best turned off as it lowers the temp of the stove too much.

 

[uptrapper]

I don't have the blower but I do use a pedestal fan that blows at the stove. I have found basically the same thing, if you put the fan on the stove even on low with the bypass closed it will stall within a couple hours, usually less. I do however run the fan on low pointing at the wall behind the stove and this does move the heat around quite well. If you want to heat the house up fast, the fan will draw a lot of heat off the stove quickly.

Mike

 

[James04]

Update on the use of the Blower fan
On overnight burns with low air settings, the blower is best turned off as it lowers the temp of the stove too much.

This will depend on how dry your wood is and how hot it got during the initial burn. I keep mine on all night on the lowest air setting. very rare that I get a stall over night if I take the time to get the entire load hot. Not all burnt up but hot. See my previous post about how to do this. I have now started to load up and leave the air completely closed until the stack temp gets well over 800. Then open the air up full to get up to 1100-1200 before closing the bypass. It can take more than 30 min to get to 800 like this. But it is well worth it. Of coarse you need a hot bed of coals to do this.

James

 

[stanleyjohn]

With my TL200 insert the fan is really needed to circulate the air outword away from the stove.The way the fan system is set up in my stove!(think its about the same with the 300)when the afterburn is actavated! my internal temp of the stove will drop some but the heat pumped out by the blower is greater due to the much higher temps in the backchamber heating the air channels nearby which the blower uses to collect the heat from the stove.Later at night just before bed when the last load is mostly hot coals i will turn the fan way down and still have some hot coals in the mourning.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Update on the use of the Blower fan
On overnight burns with low air settings, the blower is best turned off as it lowers the temp of the stove too much.

This will depend on how dry your wood is and how hot it got during the initial burn. I keep mine on all night on the lowest air setting. very rare that I get a stall over night if I take the time to get the entire load hot. Not all burnt up but hot. See my previous post about how to do this. I have now started to load up and leave the air completely closed until the stack temp gets well over 800. Then open the air up full to get up to 1100-1200 before closing the bypass. It can take more than 30 min to get to 800 like this. But it is well worth it. Of coarse you need a hot bed of coals to do this.

James

----------------------------
After Moving my Tl-300 to a different house i could see first hand that the stove will perform differently from 1 location to another. In the present location I can not set the stove air setting any lower than the second notch from the left or the stove will get progressively cooler till the AB stalls no matter what temp i start out at. Im guessing the draft is not as strong as it should be and the chimney is shorter than the first location. Other than that the stove works fine. One of the ways i maintain higher temps is to not use the blower fan on overnight burns if the air setting is below about a third from left. All setups will be slightly different with more or less draft. My wood is 5 years old so i know its dry. So i think what works with one setup may not work everywhere.

 

[James04]

Trump,

Yes. I should have made that disclaimer. A weaker draft would need a higher air setting. Could you describe your chimney setup. Both the old and new. Mine is about 36 feet of 6" insulated SS centrally located in the house. It is mostly a strait run and then has a jog in the attic before exiting. This provides a strong draft.

How long of a burn are you able to get with a full load? You should still be able to use the fan overnight. Unless the house is on the cold side. The room were my stove is, is usually 75-80 deg.

James

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Trump,

Yes. I should have made that disclaimer. A weaker draft would need a higher air setting. Could you describe your chimney setup. Both the old and new. Mine is about 36 feet of 6" insulated SS centrally located in the house. It is mostly a strait run and then has a jog in the attic before exiting. This provides a strong draft.

How long of a burn are you able to get with a full load? You should still be able to use the fan overnight. Unless the house is on the cold side. The room were my stove is, is usually 75-80 deg.

James

I am heating a home under renovation, Open stud walls, only about 20 Ft of chimney above the stove connection,today its warmer and the draft is considerably less than usual, takes a long time to get stove up to temp and AB does not kick on as soon, need higher stove temp to maintain AB when outside temp is warmer. Stove is amazing as i can burn pine 2x4 scraps with no smoke once AB is engaged, now that its warmer i will not need a strong overnight burn so its not a problem now(draft)

 

[James04]

James[/quote]

I am heating a home under renovation, Open stud walls, only about 20 Ft of chimney above the stove connection,today its warmer and the draft is considerably less than usual, takes a long time to get stove up to temp and AB does not kick on as soon, need higher stove temp to maintain AB when outside temp is warmer. Stove is amazing as i can burn pine 2x4 scraps with no smoke once AB is engaged, now that its warmer i will not need a strong overnight burn so its not a problem now(draft)[/quote]

Trump,

That brings back some memories. I just finished building my house. When I first installed the stove there was not Sheetrock on the second floor ceiling and therefore no insulation. Basically open to the outside air as all the soffits were still not covered. The stove still did a good job of keeping us warm.

James

 

[Seasoned Oak]

James

I am heating a home under renovation, Open stud walls, only about 20 Ft of chimney above the stove connection,today its warmer and the draft is considerably less than usual, takes a long time to get stove up to temp and AB does not kick on as soon, need higher stove temp to maintain AB when outside temp is warmer. Stove is amazing as i can burn pine 2x4 scraps with no smoke once AB is engaged, now that its warmer i will not need a strong overnight burn so its not a problem now(draft)[/quote]

Trump,

That brings back some memories. I just finished building my house. When I first installed the stove there was not Sheetrock on the second floor ceiling and therefore no insulation. Basically open to the outside air as all the soffits were still not covered. The stove still did a good job of keeping us warm.

James[/quote]
========================e
Same here, no sheetrock on the second floor ceiling. I just finished putting the ceiling up and i can feel the difference almost immediatley ,also with the walls ,some with no sheetrock. Soon ill be blowing insulation and im sure my stove will be burning at the lowest setting all the time after that. A lot of the wood im burning is coming out of the house im remodeling,probably 100 years old,hows that for seasoned wood? A lot of pine and still NO SMOKE while in AB. This stove is saving me at least $1000 on heating fuel a year in these remodeling jobs so im guessing about 2 years and it has paid for itself.

 

[kenny chaos]

How many of you TL-300 guys can get OVER 300 degrees for fifteen hours?

 

[Seasoned Oak]

How many of you TL-300 guys can get OVER 300 degrees for fifteen hours?

Mishmouse is reporting 12-17 hour burn times with a stove top over 400 degrees,Check out his post near the first page or two of this subject thread.

 

[LisaP]

Has anyone ever had flames shoot out of the front door when engaged in AB? We had the stove full of dry oak, had it in AB for a couple hours- went to bed and started to smell smoke, my husband came out to check and as the rolling flames were going they would come through the door seal. He checked the seal later and it is fine. We have had the stove for 3 months and this is a first.

 

[stanleyjohn]

sounds like your stove is backpuffing!This happens if the air intake is closed off alittle too much and unburned gasses ignite after some buildup causing what looks like a mini explosion inside the stove.This happens to my stove once in a while and shouldn't be a problem for the stove.What i think you did was open the door without first opening the top damper to release the unburned gases!so you probably ignited the unburned gas when the door was opened.

 

[MishMouse]

Has anyone ever had flames shoot out of the front door when engaged in AB? We had the stove full of dry oak, had it in AB for a couple hours- went to bed and started to smell smoke, my husband came out to check and as the rolling flames were going they would come through the door seal. He checked the seal later and it is fine. We have had the stove for 3 months and this is a first.

When the seal was checked, what procedure did he follow?
I know on my the door seal actually comes off the door and stuck to the stove, it looked and worked fine until it came unstuck. Re-Check the door seal and try the dollar bill test, if your are able to get the dollar bill through the seal with the door closed you need to replace the seal.

 

[cyclone]

This happens often with my stove. My problem is the stove after burned for long periods of time takes alot of the oxygen form my home and creates the back puff. I had one yesterday and I can tell when the stove is going to back puff. It also does not help my stove is in the basement dealing with pressureization.

I will be getting a fresh air kit hook up. I think this will solve alot of my problems and have the stove burn cleaner.

I may have asked this before does Harman make a fresh air kit?

 

[MishMouse]

I may have asked this before does Harman make a fresh air kit?

Yes, Harman does offer a fresh air kit for the TL-300.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Has anyone ever had flames shoot out of the front door when engaged in AB? We had the stove full of dry oak, had it in AB for a couple hours- went to bed and started to smell smoke, my husband came out to check and as the rolling flames were going they would come through the door seal. He checked the seal later and it is fine. We have had the stove for 3 months and this is a first.

=====
You might want to look into one of those fresh air exchangers that bring in fresh air but heat it by transferring the heat from the stale air gong out so you are not losing heat. thay may be pricey but for a newer airtight house are very necessary.