Harman p61 feed rate and control question

[Nesc39]

I just bought my first pellet stove and it's a Harman P61. I have read all the manuals and also read a recent post explaining in detail how the controls work. What I don't understand is the feed rate. Why is there a feed rate knob when the stove, set to either " stove mode" or "room temp mode" is going to add or decrease whatever it needs to reach those temps that you set.
So far I have only used "stove mode". First I selected "7" and left feed rate on 3.5. Just to see how things worked I changed feed rate to 6. The stove was hot as expected but it never even came close to spilling pellets over the pot. They are easy 2" away from the edge. When I turn the feed down to 1 it's the same thing. I hear all about setting your feed rate to the right setting or you waste fuel or get improper burn with lots of smoke. I can't get them to spill if I wanted too!
Next i tried "stove mode" to 2 and left feed rate on 6.....stove cooled down but still no pellet overflow. Basically my feed rate knob does nothing that I can notice which is exactly what I would expect when the stove is automatically adjusting itself anyway.
Thoughts? Thanks.

 

[Bioburner]

Sounds like the stove is doing as it should and the quality of the pellets is being very forgiving. Leave at 3.5-4 and continue to watch the fire. Probably will not ever be an issue till you get some bad pellets.
Good luck and Welcome

 

[rcook430]

I have had my Harman for a year now and feel fairly knowledgeable with it but I understand what you are saying and I feel the same way. I will even go further and say I get the same amount of heat with the stove temp on 3 or 6.

 

[Golfeur]

the feed rate button is to adjust the maximum running time of the auger
example set 1 = 10 seconds of operation
set 2 = 20 seconds of operation
Depending on the quality of the pellets when there is maximum heat demand may overflow there pellets in the ash pan not burn. If this happens we must reduce the feed rate. a setting between 3 and 4 is normally a good setting with good quality pellets.
According to temperature demand in the house even if the feed rate is 4 which means 40 seconds of operation of the maximum tariere it is possible that the auger runs only 20 seconds and uptime little change several times but will exceed ever 40 seconds.
This is why if your feed rate is 3 and the temperature of the house is reached even if you turn the feed rate was 6 you will not see change

 

[Golfeur]

in the opposite case if the feed rate is too low you will never be able to reach the temperature in the house to be desired because the auger will not work long enough to provide the amount of pellets required to reach the temperature be desired

 

[F4jock]

Read the sticky at the top of this forum about what the Harman manual doesn't tell you.

 

[Nesc39]

Sounds like the stove is doing as it should and the quality of the pellets is being very forgiving. Leave at 3.5-4 and continue to watch the fire. Probably will not ever be an issue till you get some bad pellets.
Good luck and Welcome

Thanks

the feed rate button is to adjust the maximum running time of the auger
example set 1 = 10 seconds of operation
set 2 = 20 seconds of operation
Depending on the quality of the pellets when there is maximum heat demand may overflow there pellets in the ash pan not burn. If this happens we must reduce the feed rate. a setting between 3 and 4 is normally a good setting with good quality pellets.
According to temperature demand in the house even if the feed rate is 4 which means 40 seconds of operation of the maximum tariere it is possible that the auger runs only 20 seconds and uptime little change several times but will exceed ever 40 seconds.
This is why if your feed rate is 3 and the temperature of the house is reached even if you turn the feed rate was 6 you will not see change

Couldn't really understand the last paragraph but I have been running on stove mode only. I would expect the stove to constant use the same feed rate as long as pellet brand doesn't change. I sat there for an hour and recorded feeder on/off times and they were constantly changing with up to a 12 secs difference ( feeder on 20secs, feed off, feed on 32 secs)

in the opposite case if the feed rate is too low you will never be able to reach the temperature in the house to be desired because the auger will not work long enough to provide the amount of pellets required to reach the temperature be desired

This is exactly what I thought and didn't understand why they made a feed rate knob when you have stove mode calling for more heat and the feed knob preventing it. I obviously haven't burned enough pellets and I guess I got a good batch so far because they are completely burning up with no spill.

 

[Nesc39]

So in the case that you have good pellets there is no reason to turn the feeder on anything other than 6? If the stove is only gonna burn what it needs and never more you mine as well keep it on high. Idk if I'm missing something but that seems to be the case. Btw what is a clinker?

 

[alternativeheat]

So in the case that you have good pellets there is no reason to turn the feeder on anything other than 6? If the stove is only gonna burn what it needs and never more you mine as well keep it on high. Idk if I'm missing something but that seems to be the case. Btw what is a clinker?

A clinker is basically for lack of a better or more official description, a melted blob, where you expect ash. Some pellets have a high resin content in them and you don't get just fine ash but some of this clinker action going on as well. Also running on low where you might not get quite the complete burn as a high fire or high flame produces, can gain you a clinker or two when using those pellets. Everyone raves about LG Granules here, well in shoulder season last year I had a pretty batch of them but ran in low setting , got some clinkers and also harder deposits than usual on the burn pot, more resinous deposits. Yet when it got cold out and I ramped up the burn that all went away. Also sometimes a high burn will get rid of some of those deposits without scraping I might add.

My stove is a P61 also, I get good heat all winter long from a feed rate of about 4-1/4. The first winter I ran it on 5. When the real cold weather comes in I tried 3 last year and it was not hot enough for this house for that kind of rough winter.. In shoulder season with temps never really getting down under 28 at night you can run feed rate 1-1/2 or 2 and think everything is fine. The test comes when it gets cold out. Especially in a relatively loose house like this one. Max Feed rate is determined by quality of pellets and heat desired and of course the ever present desire for perfection. I said Max Feed. Perfection being a 1" ash line at Max Burn output. Run the stove as hot as it can go for about 35 minutes and turn up the feed rate every 5 minutes or so till you form that ash line at an inch or so from the edge of the burn pot. Now you know the max feed for that pellet. Your house may never require that feed incidentally and you may have to run the test with a window open or get roasted out. When you hit Max feed expect that stove to run out nearly a quarter of the hopper full of pellets during the test ( your stove will never ever use so many pellets to heat your house normally) You won't want to be sitting too near a P61 running that hot !! Oh yes, P61's radiate heat as well as blow it, especially off the sides.

 

[Golfeur]

Thanks

Couldn't really understand the last paragraph but I have been running on stove mode only. I would expect the stove to constant use the same feed rate as long as pellet brand doesn't change. I sat there for an hour and recorded feeder on/off times and they were constantly changing with up to a 12 secs difference ( feeder on 20secs, feed off, feed on 32 secs)

This is exactly what I thought and didn't understand why they made a feed rate knob when you have stove mode calling for more heat and the feed knob preventing it. I obviously haven't burned enough pellets and I guess I got a good batch so far because they are completely burning up with no spill.

it's Google Translate
has the answer to paragraph 2 that's what I wanted to explain

 

[Pete Zahria]

Oh yes, P61's radiate heat as well as blow it, especially off the sides.

I don't expect there is a 'huge' difference between a 61 vs. 68, and I was very surprised,
and happy, to see the sides of the stove can get to 500° or more, very easily...
If you do run a test, as suggested, it will get to 700+°
This is nice, when you have a stove in the basement, and you direct the blower heat to the upstairs...
You get some decent radiant heat to warm the basement..

As for the max feed rate, from the little that I have used this new stove,
it seems that if you have the max rate set high... 5 or 6... the fire will get very hot,
and satisfies the demand quickly, letting the flame die down to idle. (in room temp mode).
If the feed rate is lower, the stove will pumping out heat, for a longer period of time,
just not as much... and thus, (IMO) reducing that up and down feeling in the room/house..
The roller coaster effect?

Dan
(admitted P68 rookie...)

 

[bags]

I wouldn't be too concerned with the one inch from the burn pot lip deal as it can vary and is perfectly normal not being that perfect one inch. That line will vary with the demands on your stove and how many pellets it needs to pump for a given temp along with the variable of the outside temp.

Best thing to do as a new stove owner is to set it and forget it. Set your desired temp on the temp dial with it on Room Temp Auto or manual on the igniter. Auto is fine. Manual will always keep at least a small maintenance burn going and never let the stove shut down completely unless you run out of pellets. Auto igniter might be needed IF you want to heat during more mild outside temps but the manual igniter mode gets you too warm inside during those times. Set the feed rate at 3.5 to 4. 4 is a different color if you look and Harman's recommended feed rate. Then get to know your stove and how it operates for awhile. Flipping switches and turning knobs will just confuse you right now as you are already experiencing.

The feed rate knob does control things but you need a simple understanding of your stove first and how it will operate before your go adjusting and tinkering with the knobs and such. Take my word for it. You will only confuse yourself right now with something that in all reality becomes quite simple. You more or less need to establish a base line as to how the stove operates by itself and what the temps are when they are set to where you put that.

Just for fun set your feed rate at 1 with the temp dial at 85 and leave it there for an hour with your igniter flipped down to manual after the stove is running. Then leave all adjustments alone and bump the feed rate to 4 -5. This will show you how the feed does do something. After you bump up the feed you will likely get too warm and have to reduce both the temp dial and feed rate down. Basically you need to familiarize yourself with how you 61 will heat and then find the sweet spots on the adjustments according to your inside desired temp and what the outside temps are doing.

Running on Room Temp Auto with a feed rate of 4 and your Temp dial set to your preferred temp your stove will keep it at that temp all by itself. By adjusting the feed rate down to lower numbers you can manipulate your constant temp inside according to what it is outside and that will vary.

Good Luck and Welcome. You bought a great stove and will like it. It is a smart stove so do not let it play mind games with you. LOL!

 

[alternativeheat]

I don't expect there is a 'huge' difference between a 61 vs. 68

Dan
(admitted P68 rookie...)

7000btu at max full out output.

 

[Pete Zahria]

7000btu at max full out output.

Yabutt... we don't normally run either WFO...
If we both are running at say 30,000,
I think the side panels' temperatures would be extremely close..

Compared to the Englander in my shop... Now THAT is huge!!


Dan

 

[alternativeheat]

Yabutt... we don't normally run either WFO...
If we both are running at say 30,000,
I think the side panels' temperatures would be extremely close..

Compared to the Englander in my shop... Now THAT is huge!!


Dan

Dan, that last reply was tongue in cheek lol.

 

[Pete Zahria]

 

[alternativeheat]

I wouldn't want to pay to feed either one at max output for very long !

 

[Pete Zahria]

I wouldn't want to pay to feed either one at max output for very long !

No kidding...
Even throttled way way down, the 68 is tough to get under a bag a day.
It's just made to run, Baby..
(obviously depending on the temps, but the Englander can go 26hrs or so...

Dan

 

[alternativeheat]

No kidding...
Even throttled way way down, the 68 is tough to get under a bag a day.
It's just made to run, Baby..
(obviously depending on the temps, but the Englander can go 26hrs or so...

Dan

The St Croix stoves seem pretty easy on pellets too but you then you won't get the heating beast of aP61 or 68. But in the end not sure this house really needs that either. A StCroix Prescott probably would have done fine here at 2/3 the purchase price or less ! But hey, we have the P61, not changing anything now.

 

[jackhammer]

The St Croix stoves seem pretty easy on pellets too but you then you won't get the heating beast of aP61 or 68. But in the end not sure this house really needs that either. A StCroix Prescott probably would have done fine here at 2/3 the purchase price or less ! But hey, we have the P61, not changing anything now.

I have yet to run my new stove on anything but low, low, and low! Not cold enough yet.

 

[Nesc39]

Thanks for all the help everyone! I appreciate it.
Here's another question for ya ....
Is it normal for pellets to be blown out of the pot? I'm not talking about little tiny specks but actually pellets jumping out of the pot like popcorn. It seems to me the blower is to strong and once the pellets burn off some of their weight they launch out of the pot. I have ash build up on the edge but it doesn't topple over the edge it blows up and over. If I open the ash door a tiny bit it solves the problem.
I vent 2' horizontal and then up into a fireplace chimney. Sealed with a damper plate. I do not use a liner all the way up. I thought of placing a piece of masking tape over a tiny section of the fresh air input to reduce the strength of incoming air to see if the helps.

 

[bags]

I've never seen any pellets jump out of my pots. What pellet brand are you using? By the way, Welcome! There is a small learning curve when you get into pellet stoves and everything with them. It doesn't take long and many here are more than willing to help. It is a bit slower this season than last because of the warm snap most are experiencing and others have gone to another heat source this year due to costs dropping but there are still many around so ask away.

Not sure what is causing the pellet jumping. Is your stove brand new? Another recommendation is go to your avatar page and in the signature put you stove make and model in there too along with other general info. You did list that in the title but for future reference it helps.

Your stove should be set properly from the factory but you never know. Pellets should not be popping out. Ash and spars etc; OK but whole or half pellets ...... No.

 

[Golfeur]

did you check to calibrate the combustion fan for negative pressure recommended by Harman.
minimum = .35 '' H2o
maximally = .60 '' H2o
Maybe the pressure is too high

 

[alternativeheat]

Thanks for all the help everyone! I appreciate it.
Here's another question for ya ....
Is it normal for pellets to be blown out of the pot? I'm not talking about little tiny specks but actually pellets jumping out of the pot like popcorn. It seems to me the blower is to strong and once the pellets burn off some of their weight they launch out of the pot. I have ash build up on the edge but it doesn't topple over the edge it blows up and over. If I open the ash door a tiny bit it solves the problem.
I vent 2' horizontal and then up into a fireplace chimney. Sealed with a damper plate. I do not use a liner all the way up. I thought of placing a piece of masking tape over a tiny section of the fresh air input to reduce the strength of incoming air to see if the helps.

It sounds like your stove is over drafting a little bit.Pellets stirring is one thing, blowing out is another. There is a trim adjustment for draft control. The ultimate proper method is to adjust that with a meter but you can turn the trim down a little with a screw driver just enough to stop the pellet flight. I adjusted mine that way. I just put a tick mark on the face plate from where I started so I could get back there if something went wrong. In my case my flames had white tips, so also over drafting a bit, I turned it down less than 1/4 turn of the screw and the tips straightened out.

 

[bags]

IMO Alternative is correct and is offering up a great suggestion and simple means to solve the problem. Pellets aren't jumping beans so the only way I see them being moved is with air.

I always get numerous little sparklers rolling up and out of the pot with the flames but almost every single one flames out before they hit the ash pan. That's a nice little extra fireworks show going on with the flames.