Harman Oakwood or Lopi Leyden in little house

[potter]

thanks, I didn't see that- looks not too much farther....... will give them a call.

 

[coreystaf]

I hope I don't step on any toes by posting, but I just wanted to throw in a few extra points. The main difference between cat and non-cat stoves is how YOU plan to burn. Catalytic stoves are really designed for long burn periods, like starting a fire in october and pretty much having the same fire burning through the winter. Its better for the combustor if it is burned this way also, they can be very sensitive and come apart if not burned like they are intended. A non-catalytic stove is better if you intend to let it cool down more often, or if you want to build a fire and expect to have heat fairly quickly. I am not trying to push one type over the other, they both have their proper place and work very well.

 

[BJN644]

Just to comment on stove size. I have an older cape style home with fair insulation, about the same sq. footage as you, stove is centrally located on the first floor. I don't find the Oakwood to be oversized, it's very contollable and will damper down nicely and heat the whole house on the coldest nights. Before the Oakwood I had a Hearthstone phonix, it would not do the job when it was cold out and would not burn all night. As I said before the Oakwood is a 24/7 burner much like a cat stove and probably not the best bet for a partime burner. I would probably have the Jotul Oslo as my next choice.

 

[Todd]

Just to comment on stove size. I have an older cape style home with fair insulation, about the same sq. footage as you, stove is centrally located on the first floor. I don't find the Oakwood to be oversized, it's very contollable and will damper down nicely and heat the whole house on the coldest nights. Before the Oakwood I had a Hearthstone phonix, it would not do the job when it was cold out and would not burn all night. As I said before the Oakwood is a 24/7 burner much like a cat stove and probably not the best bet for a partime burner. I would probably have the Jotul Oslo as my next choice.

You must have to damper that stove down most of the time if it's in a small house? Have you had any problems with the secondary burn stalling out like the VC Everburn's?

 

[begreen]

If the Oakwood is doing a good job and not overheating a 1000 sq ft cape then I suspect the building is not all that well insulated or is somewaht leaky, even accounting for the colder climate. But thanks for the good feedback. Perhaps the Oakwood idles better than I had thought. What are your average January temps?

Potter's actual (oil) fuel consumption indicates that the home has very moderate heating requirements. Figure maybe 30,000 btus max? I agree an Oslo could work, perhaps the Oakwood too, but it may be on low idle or burning short fires a lot of the time which isn't the best for efficiency or the cleanest burning. It's a tough call in a small, tight place, but I'm sticking with the Woodstock Palladian or Keystone or a small PE Alderlea as being the perfect fit and a Castine if it's a Jotul.

 

[potter]

Obviously, there are alot of choices that could work, and appreciate the many points of view. I would like to hear more detail from the Oakwood owner (fall, spring usage, etc.) if he feels like it. If I haven't said this before we don't spend time in the basement (laundry, pantry overflow, pottery collection) so it could be hotter down there without bothering us......
It seems like I should be able to use my current btu usage (especially with this gravity heater) to figure my needs. BeGreen is right that my highest demand is probably 30,000. Perhaps someone could explain why the Oakwood is too large at 42,000 btu max. while the Castine seems appropriate at 55,000 max. (according to growing stack of stove company literature I'm collecting) I wish it was like a car that you could test drive-
I would like to be able to turn the pilot off this propane gobbling box, and only turn it on when we're traveling. Eventually, I will get something better as a back up, but I think it's a pretty sure bet propane heating will always be more expensive than wood.
BTW I got out the drawings for the house. I was roughly estimating size, we bought the place person to person without a realtor.
It looks like the main floor is 800 sq. ft. (with an open plan with 3 levels a lowest level living room, upper level dining, kitchen fireplace, and an upper floor loft bedroom) and the basement is about half that so 400 sq. ft..
I wasn't able to call Woodstock today- at some point I will have to do the expedient thing as my business cranks up in the fall.
I work at home so could tend either style stove- the house doesn't have to be 72 when I wake up in the AM.... want a simple process thats not overly fussy.

 

[begreen]

If a simple stove is the goal, perhaps avoid one that has a bypass damper system. It's one more control to pay attention to and eventually maintain. That said, apparently I was in error on my btu calculations for the Oakwood. Harman reports it as 11-42,000 btus. For some reason I had it down as 15-75,000 btus in my notebook, now I think I had the Exception 300 numbers crossed to this model. I've never run one, so it's best to take the advice of those that have. If it can run for hours at 12,000 BTUs it may be a winner for your application.

The Castine which is rated at 13,306 - 35,826 Btus if my metric conversions are correct. It has a nominal heat output of 25,590 BTUs. Ignore the max as often this is more bragging rights than attainable safe heat. The F500 is rated at about 15-37,500 BTUs with a nominal 29,000 BTU output.

But I am a little confused now. If you are not down in the basement very much, why are you paying for a fancy stove? A Pacific Energy Super 27 stove or even an Englander steel 13 NC stove will give you good long burns in a 2 cu ft stove. Tom Oyen has been burning in his 2 cu ft PE for 15 years now, so they last and are very easy to run and maintain.

There are a lot of other stoves in this size as well. Basically try to find about a 2 cu ft stove that is comfortable running efficiently at a lower setting. Soapstone stoves can also work in this range.

 

[BJN644]

If the Oakwood is doing a good job and not overheating a 1000 sq ft cape then I suspect the building is not all that well insulated or is somewaht leaky, even accounting for the colder climate. But thanks for the good feedback. Perhaps the Oakwood idles better than I had thought. What are your average January temps?

Potter's actual (oil) fuel consumption indicates that the home has very moderate heating requirements. Figure maybe 30,000 btus max? I agree an Oslo could work, perhaps the Oakwood too, but it may be on low idle or burning short fires a lot of the time which isn't the best for efficiency or the cleanest burning. It's a tough call in a small, tight place, but I'm sticking with the Woodstock Palladian or Keystone or a small PE Alderlea as being the perfect fit and a Castine if it's a Jotul.

The Oakwood does "idle" well, once you have that magical bed of hot coals. The average Jan. temps. where I live according to weather .com, is a low of 10F and a high of 28F.
I have been burning for 20 years, and between my home and camp I've had 5 different stoves, 3 EPA rated. The Oakwood has been the most controllable and longest burning of them all. With that said, it also had the biggest learning curve to it. I hated it when I first bought it, it will stall if you close the secondary damper to soon. But after talking with a Harmon rep, I got it working, I was also burning it part time and it takes almost 2 hours to get that bed of coals needed for secondary burn. I ran about 4 1/2 cords through it this winter once I switched to 24/7 burning, cleaned the connector pipe a few times but the chimney stayed clean so something was working right. Fall and spring you may find yourself using it like an older stove with the secondary damper open more than usual. It also does not put on much of a show when in secondary mode, just a an orange glow and no flames, so use in a basement shouldn't matter.
I'm not an expert, and I know stoves work differently for other people but this has been my experience with the Oakwood. I have not experienced any of the problems that people have posted about other down draft stoves other than stall when the coal bed is not ready.

 

[begreen]

Thanks a lot for posting the quick review BJN. We don't hear enough about this stove so it's really helpful. Good to know that the stove is working well for you. It seems like in a small place they could have it heated up before getting a good secondary burn. That would be somewhat inefficient, no? But for a larger home where it will be burning 24/7 from Oct to Mar it sounds like a great stove. Can you post some pictures? How long have you had it?

I also see you have the Drolet Myriad. How do you like that stove? How has it burned for you and what are typical burn times with it?

 

[potter]

Thanks for responding BJN.
I have been all over the place with this decision. There's two dealerships with Harmans nearby, along with the Lopi/Avalon dealer. The Leyden seems to get poor quality reviews. It would be nice to have someone nearby to install and service if necessary. Although it's in the basement I'd like something better quality, and I'm a professional artist, I sometimes have trouble seperating the aesthetic and pragmatic.
The Castine I have to admit was fit, quality and apparent ease of use, quite a bit less expensive than any thing else I've looked at and beside the airport where I pick my wife up on Saturday, I have 3/4 ton van- you get the picture... but means installing myself.
My studio is near the house, I end up going in every 3-4 hours, so I would be able to feed throughout the day.
This stove will be backed up a 5 ft by 4ft. stone chimney base. Is there any difference between a radiant cast iron heater would deposit heat into that stone wall? If we keep a fire burning for a day or two (which doesn't happen often) in our fireplace the stones will be warm the next morning. Can we take advantage of the wall as a heat sink? I don't know the physics of radiant vs. convection and all that.
Hope this isn't going on too long, I'm starting from square one knowledge wise, and want to get a stove I'll be happy with.
The only stove I've ever used as a primary heater was 70s or 80s era Vermont castings so getting an idea of the daily difference in use, management of the new stoves is valuable. (unfortunately, in our last move I had to chose between a pallet of firebrick or the stove to fit in the truck so left the stove.)

 

[BJN644]

Thanks a lot for posting the quick review BJN. We don't hear enough about this stove so it's really helpful. Good to know that the stove is working well for you. It seems like in a small place they could have it heated up before getting a good secondary burn. That would be somewhat inefficient, no? But for a larger home where it will be burning 24/7 from Oct to Mar it sounds like a great stove. Can you post some pictures? How long have you had it?

I also see you have the Drolet Myriad. How do you like that stove? How has it burned for you and what are typical burn times with it?

You still have fairly good control with your primary air and the secondary damper open, it does tend to eat more wood in this mode but once the bed is established it can run forever in the efficient mode. I don't think I mentioned the no mess ash system, the pan is a little small and warps a little when very hot, but the ashes automatically fall into the pan, open the door slide out the pan once a day to empty, no dust flying, no shoveling. I have owned the stove since last October, I'll take some pictures when I figure out which kid has the digital camera.

The Drolet is a good steel stove, it has a bypass damper for quick starts and less smokey reloads and the glass stays clean. I bought it on sale from Northern Tool. It was somewhere around $700 and came with a variable speed blower. I use this stove in my poorly insulated camp on a remote lake. It throws a lot of heat! the large firebox last a good 8 hours, not as long as the Oakwood but will go all night.

 

[potter]

After educating myself to the options and choices, with you help (or at your expense) I've come to at least one conclusion.
I think the downdrafts are not what I'm looking for- great products but more complex to figure out and run.
Was given a great price on a Lopi endeavour today. About the same price as the Jotuls.
I still like the jotuls- talked to the insurance company today and I can self install or hire a local- they ask that I have the local fire department or someone to look at it. No paperwork demanded....or additional riders. I've read the threads I could find regarding Castine vs Oslo, the btus etc. don't seem very different as described by BeGreen. I'm drawn to the side stoking, and the potential to pump out more heat from the basement on the coldest days. Also the larger firebox, longer burn times. Also the Castines draft fussiness, as I won't have dealer install.
So if anyone wants to express an opinion, that would be great. Otherwise, unless asked a question, I'll end this thread and not post until I've bought a stove.