Half cord for 3 weeks?

[Ashful]

The OP has been silent since that first post, but did log in yesterday. It’s likely our response was not received favorably, even if that was not the intent.

 

[KC Matt]

Before I knew better I ran an old Ashley slammer for years without incident. It ate a lot of wood but it also made quite a bit of heat. Yeah, it's less than ideal but so is freezing. In an original open hearth fireplace is a slammer really worse than the original set of glass doors?

This place has an irrational level of hatred for the old slammers IMO.

 

[Ashful]

I think the danger is more cumulative than immediate, and thus the level of hatred for slammers is not unjustified, but it may also be not applicable to those just needing short-term use.

Of course, none of that matters, here. This user’s setup is not a classic slammer install.

 

[acordeon]

I'm the OP, and I'm not dead! Thanks all for the education, I've learned a lot. Never knew what a slammer was until reading these comments. Got some more info to share, then I'll ask again if you all think I should still not use the insert.

First, I should've mentioned the we had the chimney inspected very recently, and the sweep said it was clean.

Second, I also should've mentioned that at the advice of that sweep, we always leave a window cracked when we have a fire going, to improve the draw. Mainly because our house is well-insulated and air-sealed, and he was worried about sufficient ventilation. We did have one incident of some back drawing, but i think that was partially due to my wife making a fire really close to the front door of the stove. Haven't had a problem with that since.

Third, I called another local sweep after reading all of this, and after looking at the attached photo of my insert, he told me the following:

1. This is an 80s or 90s vintage insert
2. It was basically made to be a slammer, that's how these were installed back then.
3. The stove itself isn't up to current code, so he's not allowed to add a liner to it. We would have to replace the stove.
4. He thought using it for 3 weeks would probably be fine, since the chimney had been inspected.

Fourth, we've continued using the stove since reading the comments, but we don't burn at night after going to bed. Never did, too nervous. And we've stopped using the furnace fan to circulate the heat, due mainly to @kennyp2339's concerns about CO gas. Ironically, the reason the furnace is shut down is that it has a cracked heat exchanger that was leaking CO into the house (at low levels), so we definitely don't want more of that. We have several CO detectors in the house.

Fifth, we have several space heaters, and have been using them, especially in the bedrooms in the back of the house. But those things put out so much less heat than the stove, I don't know that they'll cut it on cold days. Supposed to get down into the 20s this coming week.

Sixth, we've started burning the alder we bought. I'm sure you all are right and it's not dry by your standards. It was cut last year. But I'm getting a decent burn out of it, albeit with some more effort than the drier wood we ran out of before buying this.

So, given all of the above, would you all still advise me not to use it, assuming I keep the furnace fan off and the window cracked, and don't burn overnight?

 

[maple1]

It comes down sometimes to personal choices, but I would likely use it to get by. As long as I had CO detectors.

 

[peakbagger]

Years ago we ran a supposedly code complaint box type stove. It looks like a normal box stove but the back end was just bolted to steel plate that was sized to be larger than the fireplace opening. There were a couple of hook that reached into the fireplace opening and grabbed a lip inside the fireplace. The flue just dumped out of the back of the stove and was not connected to the chimney of the fireplace in any way. It ran fine for several years. We ran it hard and rarely did we need to clean the chimney as we didn't try to stretch the burns by loading it up and cranking the air down. When we did clean it there was ash in the bottom of the fireplace but no significant creosote issues.

Looks like the OP is going into this well thought out. With CO detectors in place and electric heaters as needed to keep the cold spots warm I think he has a reasonable fan.

 

[kennyp2339]

Looks like the OP is going into this well thought out. With CO detectors in place and electric heaters as needed to keep the cold spots warm I think he has a reasonable fan.

I def agree, I always get worried though because some people just don't get the dangers of CO, but this OP seems well versed to this and as long as the approach is good and they know what there dealing with it should be fine for a temp solution.
Hopefully after the furnace gets fixed the OP can install at a minimum a liner down the chimney so they can reduce the threat something going wrong.

 

[peakbagger]

BTW, I have been through the cracked heat exchanger game long ago. I bought a house in WI and got possession in October. It had a so called "inspected" oil forced hot air furnace. I moved in and got a new oil company and had a tech come service it. He looked at it and called me down and showed me a large rusted out hole in the exchanger where an ancient humidifier had failed and leaked on the duct. it was an old 1940s home not that tight and they obviously had been running that way for awhile. The tech told me he had to notify the fire department and condemn the house until it was replaced. He just happened to have new furnace at the shop he could install for $6000. (on a 40K home). I told him to do what he needed to an made some phone calls. I got heating tech that could order me new one. It would take 3 days and he could install it in day for 3K. In the meantime he patched the cracks with some refractory designed for this type of fix. When he yanked it out a week later the stuff was holding fine.

BTW I talked to a lawyer and he suggested that he would be glad to take the case but advised that unless someone had died or was seriously injured the legal costs of going after the prior owner would not be worth it. As it was I ended moving out and selling it 6 months later and broke even on the house. I still have the blower that I salvaged from the old furnace that I use for a room dust collector.

 

[Ashful]

I’d probably roll with it as you are, only during the day while I’m home. But I’m just a burner, not a chimney pro. Bholler’s opinion would count more here, since he is a chimney professional. But he’s also constrained by professional code and liability, so he may be more reluctant to bless anything not 100% to code.

 

[bholler]

I think the danger is more cumulative than immediate, and thus the level of hatred for slammers is not unjustified, but it may also be not applicable to those just needing short-term use.

Of course, none of that matters, here. This user’s setup is not a classic slammer install.

How is this not a classic slammer install? The danger from co poisoning is there from the first fire. And we don't know how long it has been installed and how much creosote has soaked into the structure

 

[bholler]

I’d probably roll with it as you are, only during the day while I’m home. But I’m just a burner, not a chimney pro. Bholler’s opinion would count more here, since he is a chimney professional. But he’s also constrained by professional code and liability, so he may be more reluctant to bless anything not 100% to code.

This is not about code. I would and do overlook code violations all the time this is about a very real and very serious safety risk.

 

[acordeon]

The danger from co poisoning is there from the first fire. And we don't know how long it has been installed and how much creosote has soaked into the structure

Bholler, can you say more about the creosote? I thought as long as a sweep had said our chimney was clean that we were good. That's not the case? Haven't heard about "soaking into the structure".

re the CO, if we keep the furnace fan off and put a CO detector just above the fireplace, would you be OK with it then?

This is not about code. I would and do overlook code violations all the time this is about a very real and very serious safety risk.

I assume you're talking about the CO and creosote risks mentioned above? Or is there some other risk besides?

re slammer risk in general, I found this: http://seasidesweep.com/the-trouble-with-fireplace-inserts/

Got anything else for me to read?

 

[acordeon]

Thinking of getting one of these for the living room where the stove insert is: Amazon product ASIN B00IO64NXC

 

[bholler]

Bholler, can you say more about the creosote? I thought as long as a sweep had said our chimney was clean that we were good. That's not the case? Haven't heard about "soaking into the structure".

re the CO, if we keep the furnace fan off and put a CO detector just above the fireplace, would you be OK with it then?




I assume you're talking about the CO and creosote risks mentioned above? Or is there some other risk besides?

re slammer risk in general, I found this: http://seasidesweep.com/the-trouble-with-fireplace-inserts/

Got anything else for me to read?

That covers it pretty well. But if a sweep inspected your chimney and didn't tell you to absolutely not use that I would not trust the rest of his evaluation.

 

[acordeon]

That covers it pretty well. But if a sweep inspected your chimney and didn't tell you to absolutely not use that I would not trust the rest of his evaluation.

Gotcha.
But could you please speak a little more about the creosote soaking into the structure as I mentioned above. I don't get what that is, haven't read anything about that. I thought the creosote had to be on the interior surface of the chimney to ignite and cause a fire.

I totally believe you that in general this isn't that safe, and the code was changed for a reason. But my understanding was that creosote needed time to build up, even with the most unsafe of setups. So if we really only use this for a few weeks, and we're careful, I need a bit more info before I'm convinced that we're likely to have a fire during that short time period.

Thank you!

 

[bholler]

Gotcha.
But could you please speak a little more about the creosote soaking into the structure as I mentioned above. I don't get what that is, haven't read anything about that. I thought the creosote had to be on the interior surface of the chimney to ignite and cause a fire.

I totally believe you that in general this isn't that safe, and the code was changed for a reason. But my understanding was that creosote needed time to build up, even with the most unsafe of setups. So if we really only use this for a few weeks, and we're careful, I need a bit more info before I'm convinced that we're likely to have a fire during that short time period.

Thank you!

Did he run a camera through your chimney and check every mortar joint in the flue tiles? Creosote can easily be deposited outside the clay liners in that case. And a whole lot of creosote can build up in the chimney in a couple weeks especially with a slammer and wet wood

 

[acordeon]

Did he run a camera through your chimney and check every mortar joint in the flue tiles?

Nope! He used a mirror on a stick to look up into the chimney a ways. Seemed to think it was very free of creosote.
Doesn't sound like there's any way I could check it myself to your satisfaction, eh?

Creosote can easily be deposited outside the clay liners in that case. And a whole lot of creosote can build up in the chimney in a couple weeks especially with a slammer and wet wood

Gotcha. I don't know what clay liners are, but I will try looking that up.

What about setting this up as a "direct connect", which I've seen mentioned elsewhere? Is that a job that a reasonably handy person but with no woodstove/chimney experience could do in an afternoon and have the result be safe? Would you be onboard with us using it for a while if we did that?

 

[bholler]

Nope! He used a mirror on a stick to look up into the chimney a ways. Seemed to think it was very free of creosote.
Doesn't sound like there's any way I could check it myself to your satisfaction, eh?



Gotcha. I don't know what clay liners are, but I will try looking that up.

What about setting this up as a "direct connect", which I've seen mentioned elsewhere? Is that a job that a reasonably handy person but with no woodstove/chimney experience could do in an afternoon and have the result be safe? Would you be onboard with us using it for a while if we did that?

Without knowing the condition of your chimney liners or the clearances your chimney has there is no possible way I could say if a direct connect would be safe or not. But yes it would be much safer than what you have.

 

[acordeon]

Without knowing the condition of your chimney liners or the clearances your chimney has there is no possible way I could say if a direct connect would be safe or not. But yes it would be much safer than what you have.

Totally fair. Is it something that I could do reasonably well in an afternoon? Or best left to a pro? (If the latter we may be stuck since the pros don't want to touch it.)

 

[bholler]

Totally fair. Is it something that I could do reasonably well in an afternoon? Or best left to a pro? (If the latter we may be stuck since the pros don't want to touch it.)

With some basic sheet metal tools and skills yes