Grinding angles

[Freakingstang]

So, for 33 RS and 26 RS, the vise angle should be 30 degrees and not 25, correct? Man, there are a lot of Stihl RS chains that are listed in the chart at 25 degrees. Maybe it is like Lees says, certain angles for certain woods. Wonder if a 25 degree angle would be better for me since I am cutting mostly oak and locust? I might have to play around with the vise angle to see if it makes a difference.

I've had mine, like 7-8 years now? still works awesome, although I broke the handle on it.. well worth the basically just shipping price I paid for it..

Honestly I set all mine up the same...I'll take a brand new stihl RS chain and mount it up and set my angles as close as I can... If I remember correctly it is 27-28 degrees. but yes, a sharper angle (30) will cut faster, but will aslo dull faster as the working corner is even smaller of a point. 25 is a good fast cutting angle that is durable. Some guys don't worry about the tilt angle at all, I myself like it and know its cuts faster than the same chain with a level bed angle (0).

 

[Freakingstang]

I've had mine, like 7-8 years now? still works awesome, although I broke the handle on it.. well worth the basically just shipping price I paid for it.. I never mountedd mine to a bench though, I mounted it to a 3" piece of C channel that I can put in the vise and remove when not needed... dropped it one time and broke the plastic pull handle... its still have there so a little duct tape covered up the cracked plastic and still works.

Honestly I set all mine up the same...I'll take a brand new stihl RS chain and mount it up and set my angles as close as I can... If I remember correctly it is 27-28 degrees. but yes, a sharper angle (30) will cut faster, but will aslo dull faster as the working corner is even smaller of a point. 25 is a good fast cutting angle that is durable. Some guys don't worry about the tilt angle at all, I myself like it and know its cuts faster than the same chain with a level bed angle (0).

 

[Freakingstang]

I've had mine, like 7-8 years now? still works awesome, although I broke the handle on it.. well worth the basically just shipping price I paid for it.. I'd buy another one if needed. Alot of guys griped out the reversing switch...i've never had an issue with it, and never seen the problem to be big enough to install a reversing motor switch.

Honestly I set all mine up the same...I'll take a brand new stihl RS chain and mount it up and set my angles as close as I can... If I remember correctly it is 27-28 degrees. but yes, a sharper angle (30) will cut faster, but will aslo dull faster as the working corner is even smaller of a point. 25 is a good fast cutting angle that is durable. Some guys don't worry about the tilt angle at all, I myself like it and know its cuts faster than the same chain with a level bed angle (0).

 

[Ralphie Boy]

This evening I took a look at the chains I need to sharpen and boy are they dirty. Thinking about putting them in the ultrasonic cleaner with some mineral spirits. I use the ultrasonic cleaner on my bicycle chains and other bike parts and it does a fine job with them. Bet the saw chains will come out sparkling.

Only question is whether to clean them before or after sharpening.

Both... First cleaning will make the as clean as your bike chain and the second will remove any abbrasive residue let from the sharpening. What kind of cycling do you do? I've got over 137K mile in 19 years of road cycling and self contained touring on 2 continents. LAB certified instructor #1390

 

[Ralphie Boy]

Ammonia cleans chains ?

Ammonia is a de-greaser and will also disolive some typs of "varnish" build-ups. It is also less regulated in most shop applications unlike mineral spirts that cost more and take an act of God to properly dispose of when finished not to mention the regs on evaporation control.

 

[fabsroman]

Both... First cleaning will make the as clean as your bike chain and the second will remove any abbrasive residue let from the sharpening. What kind of cycling do you do? I've got over 137K mile in 19 years of road cycling and self contained touring on 2 continents. LAB certified instructor #1390

Mostly do road riding. Have 7 road bikes and 2 MTB's. Used to race a lot as a junior amongst the likes of George Hincapie, Bobby Julich, and Jonas Carney. Jonas was the first person to ever beat me, and he continued to do so every time I raced against him. My parents were wise to make me go to college and give up the dream of racing. The sport is such a mess that I could not in good conscience even try to get my kids enthusiastic about it. I know I have over 40k on my 25 year old bike, the majority of which was put on 20+ years ago, and another 10k+ on a Colnago. If I had to guess, I would guess I am in the 70K to 80k area mileage wise. 2012 was the first time in a long time that I did not log a single mile.

Now, back to chainsaw chains. Would you recommend the ultrasonic cleaner as the "after" cleaning method too?

 

[Ralphie Boy]

Mostly do road riding. Have 7 road bikes and 2 MTB's. Used to race a lot as a junior amongst the likes of George Hincapie, Bobby Julich, and Jonas Carney. Jonas was the first person to ever beat me, and he continued to do so every time I raced against him. My parents were wise to make me go to college and give up the dream of racing. The sport is such a mess that I could not in good conscience even try to get my kids enthusiastic about it. I know I have over 40k on my 25 year old bike, the majority of which was put on 20+ years ago, and another 10k+ on a Colnago. If I had to guess, I would guess I am in the 70K to 80k area mileage wise. 2012 was the first time in a long time that I did not log a single mile.

Now, back to chainsaw chains. Would you recommend the ultrasonic cleaner as the "after" cleaning method too?

I don't think it's needed but if you have it why not? It is most likely just as easy to toss it in the tank for a couple of minutes as it is to do anything else.

Wow sorry to hear about 2012....unless you wanted it that way. I've never competed and never felt the need to. Like the old saying says "I ride my bike to ride my bike"

 

[fabsroman]

I don't think it's needed but if you have it why not? It is most likely just as easy to toss it in the tank for a couple of minutes as it is to do anything else.

Wow sorry to hear about 2012....unless you wanted it that way. I've never competed and never felt the need to. Like the old saying says "I ride my bike to ride my bike"

There were more important things to deal with in 2012. Now, getting back to normal and about to start hitting the trainer so I will be in some sort of shape when the weather gets better.

 

[kenskip1]

Next question,A person wants his safety chains sharpened. The chain has the shark fin in front of the raker.You sharpen it for him but he returns saying that it does not cut worth a darn.Did you lower the raker?If the shark fin was in front of the raker how could you lower it?Do you see what I am getting at? A non safety chain is a breeze to sharpen.Adjusting the raker is easy enough however, the safety chains are another ball of wax.Personally I would get some time sharpening some of your own chains before you try and do others.Best of luck with your grinder, Ken

 

[Ralphie Boy]

Next question,A person wants his safety chains sharpened. The chain has the shark fin in front of the raker.You sharpen it for him but he returns saying that it does not cut worth a darn.Did you lower the raker?If the shark fin was in front of the raker how could you lower it?Do you see what I am getting at? A non safety chain is a breeze to sharpen.Adjusting the raker is easy enough however, the safety chains are another ball of wax.Personally I would get some time sharpening some of your own chains before you try and do others.Best of luck with your grinder, Ken

Maybe suggest a non-safety semi or full chisle

 

[fabsroman]

Next question,A person wants his safety chains sharpened. The chain has the shark fin in front of the raker.You sharpen it for him but he returns saying that it does not cut worth a darn.Did you lower the raker?If the shark fin was in front of the raker how could you lower it?Do you see what I am getting at? A non safety chain is a breeze to sharpen.Adjusting the raker is easy enough however, the safety chains are another ball of wax.Personally I would get some time sharpening some of your own chains before you try and do others.Best of luck with your grinder, Ken

Yeah, I am about to file down the shark fins on my safety chains so I can get them out of the way. Or, at least file them down as I file down the depth gauge. Would that be a bad idea?

 

[amateur cutter]

Yeah, I am about to file down the shark fins on my safety chains so I can get them out of the way. Or, at least file them down as I file down the depth gauge. Would that be a bad idea?

Compare the height to the actual raker. I think you'll find that it's quite a bit lower already. usually any anti kickback device is well below the cutter's minimum height. They slow the cut speed because they limit the depth the chain cutter can achieve while it porpoises through the wood. The more space taken up between the cutters the less distance the cutter has to gouge into the wood. My .02 worth. A C

 

[Boog]

I picked up several like new 3/8 16" "full" safety chains with one of the saws I traded for. I aggressivly ground down the long "shark fins" and rakers too, took maybe a 1/3 off them, on the first chain I tried. It seems to cut very nice with the 031AV, has enough power to move it along. Just make sure whatever saw you are using it on can pull your more aggressive finished product!

 

[Boog]

Next question,A person wants his safety chains sharpened. The chain has the shark fin in front of the raker.You sharpen it for him but he returns saying that it does not cut worth a darn.Did you lower the raker?If the shark fin was in front of the raker how could you lower it?Do you see what I am getting at? A non safety chain is a breeze to sharpen.Adjusting the raker is easy enough however, the safety chains are another ball of wax.Personally I would get some time sharpening some of your own chains before you try and do others.Best of luck with your grinder, Ken

I would not "significantly" modify someone else's safety chains. Its one thing to do it for yourself, another to do it "commercially" to someone else's chain. Might be opening yourself up to liability issues. I'd go with Ralphie Boy's suggestion above here.

 

[Butcher]

Next question,A person wants his safety chains sharpened. The chain has the shark fin in front of the raker.You sharpen it for him but he returns saying that it does not cut worth a darn.Did you lower the raker?If the shark fin was in front of the raker how could you lower it?Do you see what I am getting at? A non safety chain is a breeze to sharpen.Adjusting the raker is easy enough however, the safety chains are another ball of wax.Personally I would get some time sharpening some of your own chains before you try and do others.Best of luck with your grinder, Ken

Well Ken, I dont know nothin bout no safty chains. I have never seen them on a saw or for sale for that matter in my neck of the woods. I was only thinking about sharpening chains for some buddies of mine and have a few beers while we where doing so. I will thank you on pointing out the errors of my thinking though. In the late 70's and most of the 80's I was the sole butcher of our small town locker killing up to 100 head of hogs and cattle a week. While most folks in this area were otta work I was makin a good livin. Then I got back into the landscapeing biz with my wifes family that has been in biz for over 85 years. Been doing that for almost 25 years now and as a landscape superviser I have to run jobs that are 10's of thousands of dollars on a daily basis. Not to mention the fact that I also have to keep a fleet of 10 trucks, 5 tractors, 3 skidloaders, and a pile of sodcutters and edgers and weedeaters and saws running. That and the fact that over the years I have built over a dozen costom Harleys for myself and others with no complaints. I'm realizing now though that I'm a pretty ignorant hillbilly. Heaven forbide I would want to sharpen a freakin saw chain for a couple of buddies. In fact, you got me wunderin if I'm actually smart enough to heat my home with a woodstove after all these years. I'm surprized I am still livin what with all the wood I burnt over the years. Sheesh.

 

[fabsroman]

I would not "significantly" modify someone else's safety chains. Its one thing to do it for yourself, another to do it "commercially" to someone else's chain. Might be opening yourself up to liability issues. I'd go with Ralphie Boy's suggestion above here.

Yeah, I don't have any liability insurance related to chain sharpening, so only going to be sharpening mine and my dad's. I'm going to try grinding down the safety tabs on one of my RMC chains to see if that helps. Have 3 of those chains and it is going to take a while to wear them out to the point of justifying their replacement for RS chain.

 

[fabsroman]

Well Ken, I dont know nothin bout no safty chains. I have never seen them on a saw or for sale for that matter in my neck of the woods. I was only thinking about sharpening chains for some buddies of mine and have a few beers while we where doing so. I will thank you on pointing out the errors of my thinking though. In the late 70's and most of the 80's I was the sole butcher of our small town locker killing up to 100 head of hogs and cattle a week. While most folks in this area were otta work I was makin a good livin. Then I got back into the landscapeing biz with my wifes family that has been in biz for over 85 years. Been doing that for almost 25 years now and as a landscape superviser I have to run jobs that are 10's of thousands of dollars on a daily basis. Not to mention the fact that I also have to keep a fleet of 10 trucks, 5 tractors, 3 skidloaders, and a pile of sodcutters and edgers and weedeaters and saws running. That and the fact that over the years I have built over a dozen costom Harleys for myself and others with no complaints. I'm realizing now though that I'm a pretty ignorant hillbilly. Heaven forbide I would want to sharpen a freakin saw chain for a couple of buddies. In fact, you got me wunderin if I'm actually smart enough to heat my home with a woodstove after all these years. I'm surprized I am still livin what with all the wood I burnt over the years. Sheesh.

Yeah, it really isn't about whether or not you are smart enough to sharpen a chain, but whether or not the personal injury attorney representing the estate of your deceased buddy is smart enough to understand that the reason the chain flew off the saw and killed your buddy is because of some other reason than how you sharpened it. If not, it will easily cost you several thousands of dollars to defend the case and convince a judge/jury that it was not your fault, unless you can find some type of insurance policy you have in place that will cover the cost of the defense.

I have no idea what things are like where you live, but around here everybody looks to hold somebody else accountable for the mistakes that they themselves make. I used to help friends work on their cars, but that was when I was young, poor, and unwise. If they got a judgment against me back then, not such a big idea. Now, with assets to my name and a family, I only do the simplest of repairs to friends' cars. Not because I think I might not do the repair correctly, but because I do not want to be the defendant in a lawsuit should they leave my place after a repair and get into an accident.

 

[Butcher]

Yeah, it really isn't about whether or not you are smart enough to sharpen a chain, but whether or not the personal injury attorney representing the estate of your deceased buddy is smart enough to understand that the reason the chain flew off the saw and killed your buddy is because of some other reason than how you sharpened it. If not, it will easily cost you several thousands of dollars to defend the case and convince a judge/jury that it was not your fault, unless you can find some type of insurance policy you have in place that will cover the cost of the defense.

I have no idea what things are like where you live, but around here everybody looks to hold somebody else accountable for the mistakes that they themselves make. I used to help friends work on their cars, but that was when I was young, poor, and unwise. If they got a judgment against me back then, not such a big idea. Now, with assets to my name and a family, I only do the simplest of repairs to friends' cars. Not because I think I might not do the repair correctly, but because I do not want to be the defendant in a lawsuit should they leave my place after a repair and get into an accident.

Your missing the big picture. I have a almost million dollar liability policey and if 1 of my close friends kilt hisself with a chainsaw chain that I sharpenened for him he probably shouldnt have been runnin the thing in the first place. We do things alittle differantly out here in the flat lands than most of you folks do. Sides, I never heard of a chain skippin of a bar and killin no one less the was stupid. I wish I had never started this thread. It's starting to piss me off. It's a freakin chain saw chain for cryin out loud.

 

[fabsroman]

Not exactly on point, but nephew sues uncle over tree cutting injury:

Our client was a 56 year old man who was using a chainsaw to cut up fallen trees and branches lying on the ground of a woods in Portage County owned by his uncle.His uncle was also using a chainsaw nearby. Suddenly, a large limb fell directly on our client.The client sustained multiple compression fractures of the lumbar spine and a fractured left leg.He was transported from the scene of the accident and admitted to Akron City Hospital where he spent over two weeks and underwent a lumbar spinal fusion and open reduction/ internal fixation of his broken leg.Our client ultimately returned to his old job making the same wages and basically returned to his “normal” daily activities.A claim was brought under the homeowner’s insurance policy.The liability insurance carrier initially denied liability claiming there was no negligence on the part of the insured uncle.The insurance adjuster also raised legal defenses of assumption of risk and comparative negligence.

Our investigation revealed that the defendant had cut away smaller branches attached to a large limb which had previously snapped off and wedged in the fork of another tree with the upper portion of the large limb still attached precariously to the trunk of the tree approximately 20 feet off the ground directly above our client.We further claimed that the defendant breached his duty of care owed to our client realizing that it was reasonably foreseeable that cutting away the smaller branches would destabilize the large limb and cause it to fall on our client.Thus, through the active negligence of the owner of the property our client suffered serious personal injuries and damages.The insurance company still contested liability but ultimately agreed to settle the Ohio personal injury case for $225,000.We were able to persuade our client’s health insurance company to accept a 40% reduction on its subrogation lien for payment of medical bills.

http://pavicklaw.com/fallen-branchpersonal-injurypremise-liability/

These guys specialize in chainsaw accidents.

(broken link removed to http://www.elitelawyerproject.com/blog/cheyenne-personal-injury-attorneys/)

Maybe a general liability policy would cover the matter, but it might be worth reading it over beforehand.

I will agree that the likelihood of anything happening is slim, but the level of damages could be severe. If we were talking about $500 if I got sued over something, even if it wasn't my fault, I would be alright with taking the risk. Heck, now that I think about it, I would probably be alright with risking $10,000. Problem occurs when somebody is maimed for life or dies and the damages are in the $1,000,000 plus range.

 

[n6crv]

Ammonia cleans chains ?

Sure and they smell good.

 

[kenskip1]

Butcher, I will sat this again."Just because you do not know something does not make you stupid"Unaware of something, true but not ignorant.You may be a hillbilly, but I am a "Piney". Has something to do with the mason Dixie line I think. See what I mean? I will make a bet that you have more common sense than many other around you.Take care my friend, Ken