Frustrated with my Sirocco 30.2

[Mustard Tiger]

For the first month this stove was fantastic. Using seasoned wood (juniper) with a very low moisture content (below 10%, some pieces even around 5%-6%). Have been running the stove as described in the owners manual and it seemed to be doing just fine. Was getting 12+ hour burns on a load and still had plenty of coals when I'd get home from work, probe would even still be in the CAT zone many times and was super easy to reload and get a roaring fire going on a reload. Then about a week ago the stove started acting "different". Taking longer to start up from a cold start, have been getting a lot more smoke in the firebox on cold starts and reloads as well. Also, with the damper closed and the thermostat wide open engaging the CAT I'm still not getting nearly as much flame as before and doesn't feel like the stove is heating as well as it was previously.

Called the shop I bought it from and had them come out on a service call. Unfortunately I wasn't home where they came, but they gave the stove a clean bill of health and said it's operating perfectly with no issues or concerns from their end. They said the chimney is free and clear, the t-stat moves freely and wasn't stuck and the door seal and bypass seal are sealing properly.

Since they were here on the service call the stove seems no different with the same complaints mentioned above, but now there's a new problem. There seems to be even more smoke in the firebox, and when I open the door for a reload after opening the damper, turning the thermostat wide open (fans are also off) and cracking the door to create more draft I still get a bunch of smoke coming out into the room from the door opening AND from where the chimney meets the stove. The smoke only comes out where the chimney meets the stove when I open the door. Also don't really have a ton of flames even when the bypass is closed and the thermostat is wide open, where I did previously, and it seemed like the thermostat had a much wider usable range previously. Before I would get quite a bit of flame with the thermostat wide open. The CAT probe still gets into the CAT zone and even goes all the way to the end around 5 0'clock at times, and the CAT is glowing. It's just strange that I'm getting smoke pouring into the room now on reloads when it wasn't before and not as much flame in the firebox with the thermostat wide open and bypass closed despite the shop telling me the stove is working as it should.

 

[all night moe]

Sounds like your wood is now to blame. Perhaps the sudden change with your stove is because you are now trying to burn subpar wood.

 

[Mustard Tiger]

Sounds like your wood is now to blame. Perhaps the sudden change with your stove is because you are now trying to burn subpar wood.

How is it subpar if it's seasoned and currently below 10% moisture content? it's the same wood I've been burning previously. I live in a high desert climate at around 4,300 ft above sea level and and it's very dry here, and all my wood is kept under a large carport with tons of ventilation. Got about 6-8 inches of snow so far, but the wood I'm burning has remained dry. Checked some splits a month or so ago before I started burning and several of the splits weren't even registering on the meter, and the ones that were registering were well below 10% moisture content.

The relative humidity outside has gone up considerably overt the last few weeks. Right now it's around 75%-80%, but it's much lower here in the summer. Could the recent jump in relative humidity had that much of an impact on the wood's moisture content even if it's not getting rained or snowed on directly?

I'll go out tomorrow morning and split some pieces and check their moisture content with the meter.

 

[moresnow]

Can you access your cap? I'd go up and check it. Sounds like a potential flow reduction due to buildup on a cap screen. Sometimes that is tough to see unless you get up there for a look. Who knows what type of inspection the stove crew really did without you being home.
May be worth shutting the stove down and giving the face of the Cat a gentle vacuum treatment. Burning softwood can occasionally plug/restrict flow through a cat due to fly ash buildup.
Couple things to look into/consider if your confidant in your wood quality.

 

[Mustard Tiger]

Can you access your cap? I'd go up and check it. Sounds like a potential flow reduction due to buildup on a cap screen. Sometimes that is tough to see unless you get up there for a look. Who knows what type of inspection the stove crew really did without you being home.
May be worth shutting the stove down and giving the face of the Cat a gentle vacuum treatment. Burning softwood can occasionally plug/restrict flow through a cat due to fly ash buildup.
Couple things to look into/consider if your confidant in your wood quality.

I shut the stove down the day before they came out to inspect it. During that time I cleaned out the stove (left about a half inch of ash or so inside which they vacuumed out completely when they were here), gently vacuumed the face of the Cat, cleaned the glass, checked the door and bypass seals with a dollar bill, etc. One thing I did notice is the bypass has a different "feel" when the stove is cold. When closing the bypass when the stove is completely cold it has that very positive "thunk" when closing it. You turn the handle to close it and it stops, then you go a little further and there's a positive clunk to close it. When the stove is hot it's not as much of a positive click or clunk that's there when the stove is cold. Not sure if that means anything.

Unfortunately it's not really possible to get up on the roof and inspect the cap. Steep metal roof that's around 40' at the apex and I don't have the gear (or the balls) to get up there. I made a video of the smoke coming out of the firebox and billowing out of the top of the stove where the chimney connects to the stove when I open the door for a reload and going to go to the shop today and show them and discuss the issues further after I head outside in a once the sun comes up to check the moisture content of some fresh splits. I can also go out there with some binoculars and try to check out the cap that way.

 

[moresnow]

Binocs work great.
Bring your splits indoors overnight prior to re-splitting and immediately testing. Cold splits will give a false low m/c reading.
If you have a Sooteater you can leave the whips long/uncut and run the head up the pipe from inside the stove. Even easier if you have telescopic stove pipe. Seems to clean the cap out pretty good.
Sounds like you have a restriction.

 

[Dieselhead]

Because it’s backing up in your flue and coming out the collar here’s another vote for a restriction in the flue system, most likely towards the top. Going to have to figure out a way to get up there.

 

[Todd]

Could also be your weather changing the draft. High humidity can make the draft much more sluggish than cold dry air. But yeah chimney caps are notorious for clogging during the shoulder seasons.

 

[Dieselhead]

And another thing I forgot in my post is from what others say in the PNW getting wood below 10% is just about impossible (@begreen) How you are checking your wood may be the culprit. Care to explain?

 

[Mustard Tiger]

Binocs work great.
Bring your splits indoors overnight prior to re-splitting and immediately testing. Cold splits will give a false low m/c reading.
If you have a Sooteater you can leave the whips long/uncut and run the head up the pipe from inside the stove. Even easier if you have telescopic stove pipe. Seems to clean the cap out pretty good.
Sounds like you have a restriction.

I also have plenty of wood inside on a rack next to the stove that I brought in on Friday. Could split those and check them as well.

 

[Mustard Tiger]

And another thing I forgot in my post is from what others say in the PNW getting wood below 10% is just about impossible (@begreen) How you are checking your wood may be the culprit. Care to explain?

Keep in mind that I am not in what you would traditionally consider the Pacific Northwest since I am in Southern Oregon close to the Northern California border and in high desert. VERY dry summers here and not much rain at all and not the damp, moist conditions you are probably associating with the PNW, but technically it's considered PNW.

How am I checking my wood? I have a General Tools moisture meter (prongs) and I split a piece and check it with the meter about an inch or two from each edge and then also check right in the middle of the split. When I checked my wood about a month ago I was getting readings that were around 6% on the juniper splits, and some pieces weren't; even registering, meaning they were below what the meter could detect. Also checked some fresh split pine (literally split that stuff a day or two prior) and was getting very high readings from it, and also calibrated the meter per the manufacturer instructions and was calibrated perfectly.

I used to be able to get a crazy draft on this thing. I'd crack the door and the wood would install flame up and you could hear it roar. Reloads would take off really quick. Not it just seems weak and anemic, leading me to agree that there's most likely an obstruction somewhere, which is interesting since I run the stove pretty hot. At one point I was worrying that I was running it too hot but was reassured that I wasn't. My fear was causing an obstruction from running the stove too cold and plugging everything up.

Not sure if this even means anything, but when the stove was operating properly and was heating up you could hear all kinds of "plinking" and "tinking" sounds that sounded like they were coming from the chimney, and thought that was from the metal heating up. Really don't hear those sounds now and the stove takes longer to heat up. I've also noticed that the inside the rear of the firebox runs cooler than the front, evidenced by creasote build-up along the back wall of the firebox, but not much along the sides as you move up to the front.

 

[Dieselhead]

Keep in mind that I am not in what you would traditionally consider the Pacific Northwest since I am in Southern Oregon close to the Northern California border and in high desert. VERY dry summers here and not much rain at all.

How am I checking my wood? I have a moisture meter and I split a round and check it with the meter about an inch or two from each edge and then also check right in the middle of the split.

Sounds good, try and keep the prongs in the same growth ring if possible.

 

[kennyp2339]

Do a burn without your chimney cap, sometimes the cap looks clean but its really getting plugged if its wrapped with hardware cloth.

 

[spudman99]

My thoughts:

If it was working fine, then not now, what are the differences. Same wood (not an issue). Same operating procedure (not an issue). Mechanical failure (shop says not an issue and a new stove so unlikely). Temperature or external conditions (possible but should not be that dramatic). Flue liner (unsure if it is insulated and how long is your flue - not mentioned in your post)

That would point to one major issue, and that is the draft or flue system. I have a 30' exterior brick lined chimney. I always burn 4 or 5 crumpled pieces of paper when starting from cold and bypass open to warm the liner. Then I light the starter bricks to get the kindling going. I have a manometer so I can see the draft and by then it easily gets to the 15 wc range which is well above the 3 wc at room temperature. Then I know I have a good draft.

Depending on your skill level, you could purchase a soot eater and clean your liner yourself. That would eliminate liner issues. You could also get a sweep out there to inspect, possible clean or diagnose any issue. Or you could purchase one of the scope cameras to visually inspect the liner, but that is not as cheap and then you have a 30' tool laying around that won't be used often.

My unprofessional read is that you have some upstream condition that is affecting draft. Check the bypass opening (when stove is cold obviously) and above for possible restrictions. Smoke only billows inside when it can't rise above the stove.

 

[all night moe]

How is it subpar if it's seasoned and currently below 10% moisture content? it's the same wood I've been burning previously. I live in a high desert climate at around 4,300 ft above sea level and and it's very dry here, and all my wood is kept under a large carport with tons of ventilation. Got about 6-8 inches of snow so far, but the wood I'm burning has remained dry. Checked some splits a month or so ago before I started burning and several of the splits weren't even registering on the meter, and the ones that were registering were well below 10% moisture content.

The relative humidity outside has gone up considerably overt the last few weeks. Right now it's around 75%-80%, but it's much lower here in the summer. Could the recent jump in relative humidity had that much of an impact on the wood's moisture content even if it's not getting rained or snowed on directly?

I'll go out tomorrow morning and split some pieces and check their moisture content with the meter.

I was just curious if some wetter stuff got mixed in....that's all. What you describe is 9 times outa 10 related to moisture in the wood.
Draft could be another issue.

 

[stoveliker]

I agree that it all reads like a flue constriction. Or something resulting in insufficient draft.

Another thought: what happens when you crack a window before you open the stove?
Is the home more sealed now? (Because colder weather)
Are all (bathroom, kitchen) fans off?

Also: do you have an old clean out that might be leaking in and killing draft?

 

[Mustard Tiger]

I agree that it all reads like a flue constriction. Or something resulting in insufficient draft.

Another thought: what happens when you crack a window before you open the stove?
Is the home more sealed now? (Because colder weather)
Are all (bathroom, kitchen) fans off?

Also: do you have an old clean out that might be leaking in and killing draft?

House was built in the late 70's, wood frame and actually have some drafts under the two exterior doors and the door going down to the uninsulated basement and have little draft collars at the base of those three doors. There are 6 small casement windows along the bottom of the wall up in the loft and I keep two of them cracked for air flow. Stove has the factory outside air kit.

Here's a photo of those small casement windows up in the loft. I usually leave the two outside windows wide open in the summer and they're cracked right now. Pic was taken when I was removing the old particle board and later replaced it with plywood and engineered hardwood flooring.

There's no old cleanup that could be leaking in. House had a big brick hearth, but no stove when I moved it. Apparently used to have a wood stove at some point, but was removed years ago and the interior/ceiling was patched up when the new metal roof was put on about a year ago by the seller. Funny that I then had to cut another home in the ceiling when this new stove was installed.

Below is a shot of the living room from the loft stairs. Wood stove is to the right of the dog in the photo. 21' to the apex of the roof from the living room floor. Eventually going to put in a ceiling fan up there to keep more of the heat down below and more evenly heat that floor. There's a small ceiling fan up in the loft, but that doesn't do much for the wide open space above the living room.

Only way I can think of getting up on that roof would be to run a static line up and over the apex of the roof and secure it to a tree or something on the other side of the house. I have some old climbing harnesses I could use, and my neighbor has a full harness I could probably borrow. Not the most fun in 20F temps. You can see in the second photo how steep the roof is.

Here's a photo of the stove shortly after it was installed and still had the particleboard underlayment.

Here's what was going on when I bought the place. That's an electric heater.

 

[stoveliker]

Those windows are this at a higher story than the stove? Having them cracked may be exacerbating the issue.

With colder weather and therefore a relatively warmer home, your home will "draft" more, leading to lower pressure at the stove.

The flue is all inside the home until it reaches the roof?

 

[Mustard Tiger]

Those windows are this at a higher story than the stove? Having them cracked may be exacerbating the issue.

With colder weather and therefore a relatively warmer home, your home will "draft" more, leading to lower pressure at the stove.

The flue is all inside the home until it reaches the roof?

I'll close those windows up in the loft and see what happens. But can't imagine those little windows that are barely cracked are the problem, especially if the stove has an outside air kit.

If I'm understanding your question correctly, yes, the flue is all inside the home until it reaches the roof. Flue goes through the roof then continues for a bit. I'll go outside in a bit once the sun comes up to take a pic of the exterior chimney.

I have the bypass open and thermostat open right now and am only getting a glow inside the firebox. With the bypass open and thermostat wide open this thing should be roaring full of flames. If I crack the door it quickly picks up, but also get smoke in the room, really leading me to believe the flue/chimney is blocked/constricted somewhere, and would make sense that it's at the top since that's the coldest part of the chimney, right?

 

[kennyp2339]

Nice place

 

[stoveliker]

Okay. If the OAK is clear/open, this cuts (imo) first half of the air flow issue.
I am back at an obstruction on the exit side of the air flow.

 

[Mustard Tiger]

 

[Mustard Tiger]

Nice place

Thanks! It's been a ton of work but finally got it to a place where I could actually move in. Was living in a small apartment in town while doing a lot of the work myself and had contractors come in and do the things I couldn't do. I personally filled two 30-yard dumpsters with all the tear out, crap that was left in the house (despite seller saying they would remove it) and a ton of yard waste, debris and pine needles. Just went through the property with a pole saw and trimmed everything 12' off the ground for fire abatement. Now I have to burn all those trimmed limbs in the burn pile. There's pine, juniper, Douglas fir and cedar on the property.

 

[bigealta]

Birds nest, bee hive, squirrel nest, dead bird or something in the flue perhaps?
Or that bypass door you said seems not quite right? Maybe a gasket loose or something is out of alignment?

 

[Mustard Tiger]

Just finished splitting some wood and checking the moisture content. Took three pieces outside with me that have been indoors and next to the stove since Tuesday evening and split them and then split three pieces that were outside in the pile. Everything was between 6%-9.5%, so I think I can rule out subpar, wet wood.