agree. why they do something as stupid as that what did they lose 5 pounds. plastic has a different expansion temp and does a number on the gasket. and what i had happen was the heater hose broke off because of to many heat cold cycles
Friggen cars!
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agree. why they do something as stupid as that what did they lose 5 pounds. plastic has a different expansion temp and does a number on the gasket. and what i had happen was the heater hose broke off because of to many heat cold cycles
most trucks say if using it in severe duty change at 3000 miles or even some of the ford powerstrokes at 2500
My curiosity dragged me to Bobistheoilguy for a few hours of learning at one point. Lots of posters there have had used oil analyses done, and even the non-synthetic oils were coming back good over 6000+ miles.
There's a few hardcore guys there who think way too much about oil who have progressively pushed their oil change intervals out by testing at each change, and incrementally increasing it until they're closing in on 20,000 miles, based on using really good synthetics. Part of the reason they can get that far is they're usually having to add at least a quart of make up oil over that time, so the detergents and viscosity modifiers that are used up or wear out over time are getting replenished.
Basically, Bobistheoilguy does the auto world a huge favor by proving there is no real reason for Bobistheoilguy to exist, or more importantly, for anybody to worry about changing oil at greater frequencies than the manual recommends.
At 200,000 miles on my Civic, and now burning a quart every 3-4,000 miles, I really should stop spending the extra money on Mobil-1, but saving $15 every 7500 miles isn't quite enough incentive to give up on the peace of mind running synthetic provides.
There's a few hardcore guys there who think way too much about oil who have progressively pushed their oil change intervals out by testing at each change, and incrementally increasing it until they're closing in on 20,000 miles, based on using really good synthetics. Part of the reason they can get that far is they're usually having to add at least a quart of make up oil over that time, so the detergents and viscosity modifiers that are used up or wear out over time are getting replenished.
Basically, Bobistheoilguy does the auto world a huge favor by proving there is no real reason for Bobistheoilguy to exist, or more importantly, for anybody to worry about changing oil at greater frequencies than the manual recommends.
At 200,000 miles on my Civic, and now burning a quart every 3-4,000 miles, I really should stop spending the extra money on Mobil-1, but saving $15 every 7500 miles isn't quite enough incentive to give up on the peace of mind running synthetic provides.
No worries, in 10 years you all will be driving EVs, and this maintenance nonsense will be much less.
No plugs, no pistons, no crankshaft, no timing belt, no fuel injectors, no fuel system, no muffler, no exhaust system, no cat, no tranny, no oil pan/pump/oil changes (sealed bearings), no alternator, no starter motor, little brake wear (regen brakes).
Has a 1/2 size 12V lead acid battery to run the on board computer and buffer the 12VDC powered accessories, run by a 3000W 12V supply powered off the 440VDC traction battery. The 12V batt had no trouble booting the computer at 5°F, it started right up.
Scheduled maintenance on my 2013 LEAF is:
--Rubber parts: wipers (still ok after 2 years) and tires (the torque and weight EAT LRR tires, I will be lucky to get 25k miles)
--Cabin air filter every 15 k miles or annually.
--Brake shoes, as needed, rarely. Change brake fluid every 30k miles.
--Replace coolant every 125,000 miles or 15 years (cooling system is about 1/5 size of an ICE car)
Early adopter problems:
--the 2013 model had an AC system defect/recall (leaked all refrigerant in about 12-20 mos), warranty repair.
--EV batteries are still expensive and small. My 2013 will need a new battery pack at 80,000 miles or 7-8 years of age (best guess), current replacement cost is $5500.
This cost works out to be 6 cents/mile, which is higher than my 'fuel' costs, which are about 4-5 cents/mile.
I"m leasing, so I'll never pay to replace the battery. Newer EVs with bigger batteries will go longer between battery replacements (figure 1000 cycles, or 1000x full EV range), and the battery costs (per mile) will keep falling.
No plugs, no pistons, no crankshaft, no timing belt, no fuel injectors, no fuel system, no muffler, no exhaust system, no cat, no tranny, no oil pan/pump/oil changes (sealed bearings), no alternator, no starter motor, little brake wear (regen brakes).
Has a 1/2 size 12V lead acid battery to run the on board computer and buffer the 12VDC powered accessories, run by a 3000W 12V supply powered off the 440VDC traction battery. The 12V batt had no trouble booting the computer at 5°F, it started right up.
Scheduled maintenance on my 2013 LEAF is:
--Rubber parts: wipers (still ok after 2 years) and tires (the torque and weight EAT LRR tires, I will be lucky to get 25k miles)
--Cabin air filter every 15 k miles or annually.
--Brake shoes, as needed, rarely. Change brake fluid every 30k miles.
--Replace coolant every 125,000 miles or 15 years (cooling system is about 1/5 size of an ICE car)
Early adopter problems:
--the 2013 model had an AC system defect/recall (leaked all refrigerant in about 12-20 mos), warranty repair.
--EV batteries are still expensive and small. My 2013 will need a new battery pack at 80,000 miles or 7-8 years of age (best guess), current replacement cost is $5500.
This cost works out to be 6 cents/mile, which is higher than my 'fuel' costs, which are about 4-5 cents/mile.I"m leasing, so I'll never pay to replace the battery. Newer EVs with bigger batteries will go longer between battery replacements (figure 1000 cycles, or 1000x full EV range), and the battery costs (per mile) will keep falling.
not to rain on your parade but i would never buy a electric vehicle. it's just a new way for the car company to jam it up the you know what. 5500 dollars for a battery. that's ridiculous. they must be using gold and platinum plates in those batteries. one doesn't go very far on a charge other than the tesla. what they should be working on is the hydrogen engine. clean burning so oil will go a lot further for the engine. most good cars today get over 200 k miles out of a engine. and let's face it every one of us has dealing with electric motors everyday air conditioners, furnace fans, box fans, refrigerator and the like. the bearings go bad in them all the time. that's my reasons for not buying a electric vehicle. i am not attacking anyone that has a electric vehicle, i am just for conversation saying why the electric vehicle today has a long road before it's worth buying in my opinion. woodgeek i mean no disrespect and wish you the best with your nissan. i got a customer that i wired a charger for has a bmw i3 he can only get 83 miles to a charge. this is the type of stuff that the car companies need to work on before they use us as a tester for their company.
somehow i think i might have started another (which is best a bottom up or top down fire start) comment
somehow i think i might have started another (which is best a bottom up or top down fire start) comment
not to rain on your parade but i would never buy a electric vehicle. it's just a new way for the car company to jam it up the you know what. 5500 dollars for a battery. that's ridiculous. they must be using gold and platinum plates in those batteries. one doesn't go very far on a charge other than the tesla. what they should be working on is the hydrogen engine. clean burning so oil will go a lot further for the engine. most good cars today get over 200 k miles out of a engine. and let's face it every one of us has dealing with electric motors everyday air conditioners, furnace fans, box fans, refrigerator and the like. the bearings go bad in them all the time. that's my reasons for not buying a electric vehicle. i am not attacking anyone that has a electric vehicle, i am just for conversation saying why the electric vehicle today has a long road before it's worth buying in my opinion. woodgeek i mean no disrespect and wish you the best with your nissan. i got a customer that i wired a charger for has a bmw i3 he can only get 83 miles to a charge. this is the type of stuff that the car companies need to work on before they use us as a tester for their company.
somehow i think i might have started another (which is best a bottom up or top down fire start) comment
No offense fbelec...its still new tech and time will tell. With a 90 mile range with cheap per mile costs, its a great commuter for my wife, on a 40 mile round trip. We have another vehicle for family long roadtrips. I don't trust the tech either....so I got a sweet (cheap) 3 year lease, anything breaks, they fix it.
A lot fewer moving parts, esp in the drivetrain, makes me think the durability will be great. As for ICE engines....figure 200k miles at (average) 30 mph implies only 7000 running hours on the engine. Most (even cheapo) electric motors can manage 3-5x that.
The tech is improving rapidly, and getting cheaper. Nissan's 2017 model is supposed to have a 140 mile range, and will likely cost the same as the 2013 model.
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i would like to see a real world cost per charge. because the charge varies from how dead it is to when it is getting near charged it hard to say how much electricity the charger used without having a meter hooked up from start to finish. amperage varies from when starting from dead to recharging from half. and i don't mean the time it takes. also not knowing the design does it work like a regular wet cell or gel cell that stays in trickle charge state until it is unplugged.
A lot of folks have looked at this, and the AC into the charger (EVSE) to battery output round trip energy efficiency is about 85%. The charge cycle is complex, but the charge/energy efficiency is high for lithium ion across the charge range. It does a 'trickle' cell equalize cycle at the end of the charge cycle, for about 60 minutes and then it cuts the traction battery off completely.
We drive the car aggressively on mostly rural back roads, (40-45 mph), and get 3.5 miles/kWh seasonal average (higher in the summer).
3.5 * 0.85 = 3 mi/kWh_AC_in. At my 14.5 cent/kwh rate (PA wind power), that is 4.83 cents/mile, all in. As above, the 'implied' battery cost per mile is higher (until the tech gets cheaper), but that is rolled into my (low) lease price.
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
What is the total environmental impact of manufacturing, recycling and disposing of an electric car vs equivalent gas car? Batteries are super caustic to manufacture and dispose of.
Personally, I think we should all be driving efficient diesels like in Europe,,,but the taxation and regulations can't get out of our way.
My AC went on my 2011 Pathfinder that I have had zero problems with. Oh well..we'll see what the dealer has to say this week.
Personally, I think we should all be driving efficient diesels like in Europe,,,but the taxation and regulations can't get out of our way.
My AC went on my 2011 Pathfinder that I have had zero problems with. Oh well..we'll see what the dealer has to say this week.
Problem is their diesels wouldn't even run on our diesel fuel. They are way ahead of us on fuel tech. I agree though I wish I could buy a good Deisel other than a Volkswagen, right now you still cannot even buy those in Canada!
Its comparable to building a gas car, according to many studies. And much smaller then the environmental impact of extracting and refining and burning several thousand gallons of gasoline. The metals in the battery are highly recyclable as well.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
You're implying that low cost per mile is somehow a metric of merit for a car, but how many would rather drive a LEAF versus a Ferrari F12 or Mercedes AMG E63? Both of these cars burn gas at a rate closer to 20 cents per mile. That, and the glut of folks driving Escalades and Lexus LX's, seem to indicate this metric is very low on the list of most drivers.
darn things are too pricey at this stage. ( not that any of everything isn't) add to that that I would assume the resale value to take a major nose dive when getting close to battery replacement- considering that as of now it is about a third of the whole new package cost. ( ya i saw what was stated as cost above- just figure by the time the dealer gets through it will more on the order of $10g)
Leasing - payments at or near buying with a loan- end of 3 years give vehicle back - got nothing. at least if ya buy it ya can get some scrap money out of
Leasing - payments at or near buying with a loan- end of 3 years give vehicle back - got nothing. at least if ya buy it ya can get some scrap money out of
You're implying that low cost per mile is somehow a metric of merit for a car, but how many would rather drive a LEAF versus a Ferrari F12 or Mercedes AMG E63? Both of these cars burn gas at a rate closer to 20 cents per mile. That, and the glut of folks driving Escalades and Lexus LX's, seem to indicate this metric is very low on the list of most drivers.
Not a muscle car...but a much more pleasant driving experience than any of the older **Toyota** sedans that we have driven before. Since we are not 'car proud' the low cost per mile helped with the decision...the new LEAF cost nearly the same amount as the 10 yo Camry (factoring in then $3/gas, depreciation and anticipated repairs).
And it is a lot better to drive. Peppy, quiet, smooth, low CG cornering, great in the snow...a very nice (and nearly free) upgrade for us.
And the topic of the tread is the cost of maintenance....if money was no object, we would all be driving newish cars and getting the dealer treatment. If money was no object why is everyone driving a car needing expensive maintenance?
Most people don't think about total cost of ownership....but some people do.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
Wired is a pretty middle of the road tech rag. Its not exactly all roses.
https://www.wired.com/2016/03/teslas-electric-cars-might-not-green-think/
Kind of a weak argument in several cases.
"Other, rare metals are sprinkled throughout the car, mostly in the magnets that are in everything from the headlights to the on-board electronics."
Yes, and the same is true for most modern cars, electric or gas.
More of a problem is the lack of a cradle to grave policy in America that requires that as much as possible of the car's components are recyclable. This policy is in place in Europe. Humans have an enormous negative impact on the health of the planet. This can be reduced, but only if we develop the national will to do better and not treat nature as a depository for endless consumption and profit.
"Other, rare metals are sprinkled throughout the car, mostly in the magnets that are in everything from the headlights to the on-board electronics."
Yes, and the same is true for most modern cars, electric or gas.
More of a problem is the lack of a cradle to grave policy in America that requires that as much as possible of the car's components are recyclable. This policy is in place in Europe. Humans have an enormous negative impact on the health of the planet. This can be reduced, but only if we develop the national will to do better and not treat nature as a depository for endless consumption and profit.
It's an incomplete argument, not strictly a weak one. Life cycle analysis fills in the missing part of the argument.
Union of Concern Scientists is one of several organizations that have been studying on the question of overall electric vehicle emissions. They're a fairly reputable independent organization, consistently in favor of reducing emissions and increasing vehicle mileage, among other things, but they have also raised the question about the actual life cycle benefits.
They estimate the manufacturing emissions from EV's range from 15-68% higher than equivalent-featured gasoline powered vehicles. That includes the relatively exotic materials like lithium in the batteries, and I assume also the rare earths in the motors. However, because the bulk of a vehicle's emissions come from its use, not its construction, they can achieve net emissions savings high manufacturing emissions in as little as 6 months use (for the shorter range vehicles).
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/life-cycle-ev-emissions
The average person doesn't care about the nitty gritty, however. At most, the average person has seen the big mileage-equivalence numbers on the EPA window stickers for EV's, and heard the counterclaims that the numbers are bogus because they only compare energy consumption from the point where its delivered to the vehicle, ignoring how effectively that energy was delivered to the vehicle. The sticker is useful for estimating fuel costs, but not for comparing emissions.
So halfway down that page is a map that the average person should find interesting.
UCS created a map that creates an alternate mileage equivalence: for each region, they use EPA data for electrical generating emissions to figure out the mileage at which a gasoline powered car would have the same emissions as an average electric car (electric cars mostly fall in a +/- 10% range for electric consumption, so simply using the average doesn't affect the accuracy of the calculation much).
As you will see in the map*, there are actually locations where the better conventional gasoline powered cars can have lower emissions than electrics, and others where its a toss-up between an electric and a good hybrid. Yet there are also quite a few regions where electric cars have clearly lower emissions than both hybrid and conventional cars.
On to the question of disposal: lithium-ion batteries are not particularly difficult to dispose of safely, but recycling is obviously highly preferred, at least as much to help the economics of battery production as to reduce environment impacts. Unfortunately, while materials like the battery casing are currently recycled, the lithium is much more difficult to recycle, in part because of the wide range of types of lithium ion batteries. There's a decent overview of that topic here:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214993714000037
* I'm more or less certain something is wrong with their emissions data for the sparsely populated parts of Alaska (AKMS). I suspect it's related to reduced reporting requirements for small utilities. A lot of the small communities in Alaska have small, community owned diesel power plants. They should actually have one of the worst miles per gallon equivalent ratings, not the best in the entire nation.
Union of Concern Scientists is one of several organizations that have been studying on the question of overall electric vehicle emissions. They're a fairly reputable independent organization, consistently in favor of reducing emissions and increasing vehicle mileage, among other things, but they have also raised the question about the actual life cycle benefits.
They estimate the manufacturing emissions from EV's range from 15-68% higher than equivalent-featured gasoline powered vehicles. That includes the relatively exotic materials like lithium in the batteries, and I assume also the rare earths in the motors. However, because the bulk of a vehicle's emissions come from its use, not its construction, they can achieve net emissions savings high manufacturing emissions in as little as 6 months use (for the shorter range vehicles).
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/life-cycle-ev-emissions
The average person doesn't care about the nitty gritty, however. At most, the average person has seen the big mileage-equivalence numbers on the EPA window stickers for EV's, and heard the counterclaims that the numbers are bogus because they only compare energy consumption from the point where its delivered to the vehicle, ignoring how effectively that energy was delivered to the vehicle. The sticker is useful for estimating fuel costs, but not for comparing emissions.
So halfway down that page is a map that the average person should find interesting.
UCS created a map that creates an alternate mileage equivalence: for each region, they use EPA data for electrical generating emissions to figure out the mileage at which a gasoline powered car would have the same emissions as an average electric car (electric cars mostly fall in a +/- 10% range for electric consumption, so simply using the average doesn't affect the accuracy of the calculation much).
As you will see in the map*, there are actually locations where the better conventional gasoline powered cars can have lower emissions than electrics, and others where its a toss-up between an electric and a good hybrid. Yet there are also quite a few regions where electric cars have clearly lower emissions than both hybrid and conventional cars.
On to the question of disposal: lithium-ion batteries are not particularly difficult to dispose of safely, but recycling is obviously highly preferred, at least as much to help the economics of battery production as to reduce environment impacts. Unfortunately, while materials like the battery casing are currently recycled, the lithium is much more difficult to recycle, in part because of the wide range of types of lithium ion batteries. There's a decent overview of that topic here:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214993714000037
* I'm more or less certain something is wrong with their emissions data for the sparsely populated parts of Alaska (AKMS). I suspect it's related to reduced reporting requirements for small utilities. A lot of the small communities in Alaska have small, community owned diesel power plants. They should actually have one of the worst miles per gallon equivalent ratings, not the best in the entire nation.
Also not accounted for are the components that wear out in a gas car that are not in an electric vehicle or have much longer wear life. Examples would be exhaust system components, injectors, water pumps, timing belts, plugs, etc.. A longer wear-life example would be brakes which last much longer due to regenerative braking. Emissions in many IC cars may also degrade over time depending on the state of tune and age and the amount of oil burned.
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