FREE Chain oil

[ddug]

Environmental concerns aside, which I think are negligible in the grand scheme of things, I contend that there is no way used motor oil can protect your bar and chain as well as specified bar oil.


I have been a bicycle mechanic all my life and owned and operated a shop for 15 years. Not chainsaws I realize but there are some parallels. On my workbench there would always be at least a half dozen different varieties of lubes. The same oil that was ideal for chains was less than ideal for cables, freehubs, etc. Many granolaheads frequented our shop and used all sorts of concoctions to lubricate their chains, including used motor oil and vegetable oil in their endeavors to save the planet and some cash. Vegetable oil is the worst, being a magnet for dirt and grime and would create such a mess as to be nearly impossible to clean. Used motor oil fared not much better. These people would always swear by their methods but I could see the damage being done. Prematurely worn chains, sprockets, and chainrings were the direct result of dirty and/or wrong lube.


I can state with absolutely no doubt that the #1 cause of prematurely worn moving metal components (on a bicycle at least) is due to dirty and improper lubrication and the accelerated wear can be dramatic, 3 or 4 times more than the same part under ideal conditions. When I change the oil in my car it is black, stinky and just plain worn out due to heat and friction. I doesn't feel slick like new oil, that's why I'm changing it.


Maybe none of this has anything to do with chainsaws, but I'm wagering it does. I know many have stated good results with used motor oil and I'm not disputing it, just saying that I think you would fare better using clean lube. I don't look down my nose at anyone and appreciate thinking outside the box, I am really a fan of directly recycling whenever feasible. To each his own, absolutely!


Until I hear otherwise from some experienced saw mechanics, ones who have made their living at it for some time, I gotta believe that a clean lube designed to hold its place at high rpm's is going to save you money in wear and tear in the long run.

 

[mywaynow]

If we were talking internal engine oil, the conversation would be one sided. The difference is that we are talking about a chain that is running through wood, bark and certainly some dirt. Whether or not the oil has some minute amount of debris is negated when that blade hits the wood surface, imho. The amount of lube my saw uses is the same for chain lube vs. used oil vs. a mix of the two. How different could they be given these issues?

 

[qlty]

here is an answer from about.com as to weather to use motor oil or bar oil.
Answer: You really do need to use a quality bar oil. Here is why! Bar and chain oil has a "high-tack" additive that prevents it from slinging off the chain as it travels around the tip. NEVER use used motor oil!
So if that is a fact your chain and bar is going to wear faster an run hotter thus shortening its life and perhaps dull faster no doubt.JM2Cents

 

[OhioBurner©]

Are we still debating this?

When I'm a working I'm letting the heavy metal fly into the woods... Metallica that is.

 

[gzecc]

I think bar oil is way over priced. I mix it with my used motor oil.

 

[CountryBoy19]

here is an answer from about.com as to weather to use motor oil or bar oil.
Answer: You really do need to use a quality bar oil. Here is why! Bar and chain oil has a "high-tack" additive that prevents it from slinging off the chain as it travels around the tip. NEVER use used motor oil!
So if that is a fact your chain and bar is going to wear faster an run hotter thus shortening its life and perhaps dull faster no doubt.JM2Cents

Wow, that is one revolutionary little tidbit of information there... I don't think I ever heard anybody mention that before.

Do you get all you information from About dot com?

Ok, putting all the sarcasm aside. #1 that is one of the primary things that is always discussed/argued/debated, #2 there was no evidence to back that claim up

IMHO using used motor oil will not diminish the lubrication enough to make a large difference, and any difference that is noticeable (shortened b&c life) will be easily paid for in the cost savings over buying your oil. That's not to mention the highly debated economical impact of re-using oil vs buying new oil.

 

[JustWood]

I'd be willing to bet I got 200+ cord of firewood and close to 1MMBF of logs on the bar on my 066 and I've used waste diesel oil for 20+ years.
Most home weekend warrior bar wear is due to pinching and heating the bar AND abuse. I've watched guys along the road cutting wood and am amazed their saws last long at all.

 

[smokinj]

Running used oil through a 2000.00$ milling saw set up! NO ISSUES!

 

[Mcbride]

If this used oil is so bad on something that is not close tolerances, under the extreme pressures etc. , like a chainsaw bar and chain.
I hate to think what it did in an engine turning high rpm, and on stuff like cam lobes, main & rod bearings etc.

Those engines must be thrashed, amazing they start at all.

 

[Valhalla]

Most bar oil may be absorbed into the wood rounds being cut and then burned. About 5% of saw run time is possibly unloaded and oil thrown off. Just an estimate.

Direct use of engine drain oil, as for a bar lube, may save more than recycling it and producing/transporting/buying fresh product. We are stewards of our forest and our world.

Vegetable oil for bar lube use now has my interest. Thanks!

 

[Extremebison]

I'd be willing to bet I got 200+ cord of firewood and close to 1MMBF of logs on the bar on my 066 and I've used waste diesel oil for 20+ years.
Most home weekend warrior bar wear is due to pinching and heating the bar AND abuse. I've watched guys along the road cutting wood and am amazed their saws last long at all.

Yes alot of people have no idea on how to keep there chain tension, and keep there chains sharp both help contribute as much to bar life as using a good lub for oil.

While running my 3120 with a 3 foot bar I get very little heat build up on both the chain and bar, I can touch the unit and hold my hand on it after ripping a timber on my mill. Still on the original bar, on my mill and the bar was used when I got the mill. I had upgraded to a new 3120 as my 365 didn't have near the power I wanted. My 3120 has never seen bar oil that I had purchased always used oil in that machine, right from the day I brought it home.

 

[JustWood]

If this used oil is so bad on something that is not close tolerances, under the extreme pressures etc. , like a chainsaw bar and chain.
I hate to think what it did in an engine turning high rpm, and on stuff like cam lobes, main & rod bearings etc.

Those engines must be thrashed, amazing they start at all.

FinalLEE some common sense!

 

[wetwood]

I'm sure the used Mobil 1 out of my truck's engine will lube a bar just fine, but I use the thick sticky stuff that strings out all over everything in the wind. %-P

 

[Mcbride]

I'd be willing to bet I got 200+ cord of firewood and close to 1MMBF of logs on the bar on my 066 and I've used waste diesel oil for 20+ years.
Most home weekend warrior bar wear is due to pinching and heating the bar AND abuse. I've watched guys along the road cutting wood and am amazed their saws last long at all.

Yes alot of people have no idea on how to keep there chain tension, and keep there chains sharp both help contribute as much to bar life as using a good lub for oil.

While running my 3120 with a 3 foot bar I get very little heat build up on both the chain and bar, I can touch the unit and hold my hand on it after ripping a timber on my mill. Still on the original bar, on my mill and the bar was used when I got the mill. I had upgraded to a new 3120 as my 365 didn't have near the power I wanted. My 3120 has never seen bar oil that I had purchased always used oil in that machine, right from the day I brought it home.

I fix saws in my shop, not a lot, but some of them.
I will wrench on just about anything for customers.
I see so many saws that have the chain not adjusted right, or even sharpened correctly, its stunning.

About 15 years ago I bought a used Husky 2100 from a professional faller.
It had a LOT of hours on it when I bought it, but was still in pretty good shape.
He also before I left took the time to show me how he sharpens & adjusts the chain.
Also said he only uses old engine oil in all his saws, his friend had an auto repair shop, and saved it for him.

All I have ever run in it since is used engine oil to.

I run my saw a lot, and in 15 years have only changed the bar twice, and maybe a dozen chains.
I lend it to my friends and family to, and hand them a jerry can of premix, and a jerry can of used oil for the chain so its got proper lubricants.

I have had to replace the piston and rings, and rebuild the carb twice.
But its still in better condition after over 2 decades of hard use, than many saws I see just 5 years old, and not used nearly as much.

If your chain and bar are running excessively hot, look at your sharpening job, and if the tension is correct.
Maybe the bar is pinched somewhere, or the tip roller is trashed.
But its not because you used old engine oil.

 

[gpcollen1]

Any way IMHO using waste motor oil as bar oil is like using railway ties as firewood.

No, nothing like that at all. Don't you think that's a bit of hype? We are talking about adding small amounts of extra toxins into the environment (or likely into the wood, as Lee states) with the used oil.

So how many people x 'small amounts of extra toxins' = alot of extra toxins??

 

[gpcollen1]

I would like to see the a study on how much energy is wasted in the recycling process. It would be interested to see, how much $ someone is making on my garbage. Going to get a little off topic here got to warn you, but this is why a reuse and not recycle. Just a few things I have seen done that upsets me. This is my personal experiance it's happening right in my back yard.

One ex. I pay to drop a dead fridge at the Whitehorse landfill. Then the city allows people to come in and scavenge the metal off the appliance. They cut the lines releasing refrigerant in the atmosphere, to collect the copper and alum. Sure there suppost to evac. every fridge but it's to late when they pile them all up with a loader, busting open lines. In theory they should pay me to drop it off, especially if some else is making money off the unit, recycling the metal and refrigerant, at least let me drop it off for free. The only thing stopping me from dumping that old fridge in the ditch is moral's. I know all this and have seen it done right in front of my eye's, as I worked in the appliance industry as a Appliance repair guy by trade.

If the city lets them do this on their site to their materials then they should be reported to the EPA. What they and the 'scavengers' are doing is ilegal.

 

[gpcollen1]

Is chain oil really that expensive? Also, chain oil comes in various viscosities based on the season. There are many reasons why used motor oil is considered hazardous waste. I send it for recycling, rather than reusing it as chain oil. That means that I am not exposing myself/family to the used oil carcinogens etc. and I am not polluting the bush with it. As woodburners, we should all strive to be good stewards of the forest.

EPA does not consider it hazardous waste.
IF there were carcinogens in the oil , it's already in the air from being in your engine.
Exhaust = in the air.

Not managed as Hazardous Waste if it is managed as USED OIL - which you are not doing. If you were caught, you could get cited for either USED OIL regs or Haz Waste. I would bet my pay check that the used oil will trigger the TCLP levels for metals and be Haz Waste.

Used oil is not considered haz. waste. UNLESS it is mixed with other stuff such as paint thinner,antifreeze, etc.
Go to the EPA website and read up.

You must have trouble reading. It is not Haz Waste IF it is managed as USED OIL. You still have to sample that USED OIL for total halogens to be able to manage it and get rid of it as USED OIL. I do this for a living, I don't need the website right now.

 

[gpcollen1]

I'm FAR from being a post-modern environmentalist, however, to me, spraying used motor oil around the woods is on par with littering in the woods -or- taking a sh*t in the woods at a camp site without digging a cat-hole -or- shooting towards the noise in the bushes versus having visual confirmation of the deer before taking a shot. It just comes across as being somewhat lazy and irresponsible.

Your better off crapping in the woods.

(broken link removed)

Sorry folks,,, heavy metals are everywhere.
How many have taken free compost from your municipality?
Did you put it on your garden?

You really don't read, do you? The first lines in that say the wastewater is from INDUSTRIAL and Municipal - not from human feces.

 

[smokinj]

Is chain oil really that expensive? Also, chain oil comes in various viscosities based on the season. There are many reasons why used motor oil is considered hazardous waste. I send it for recycling, rather than reusing it as chain oil. That means that I am not exposing myself/family to the used oil carcinogens etc. and I am not polluting the bush with it. As woodburners, we should all strive to be good stewards of the forest.

EPA does not consider it hazardous waste.
IF there were carcinogens in the oil , it's already in the air from being in your engine.
Exhaust = in the air.

Not managed as Hazardous Waste if it is managed as USED OIL - which you are not doing. If you were caught, you could get cited for either USED OIL regs or Haz Waste. I would bet my pay check that the used oil will trigger the TCLP levels for metals and be Haz Waste.

Used oil is not considered haz. waste. UNLESS it is mixed with other stuff such as paint thinner,antifreeze, etc.
Go to the EPA website and read up.

You must have trouble reading. It is not Haz Waste IF it is managed as USED OIL. You still have to sample that USED OIL for total halogens to be able to manage it and get rid of it as USED OIL. I do this for a living, I don't need the website right now.

I am sure its your Job and you need to justify your job. Lee on the other hand has ever thing wrap up in his Business and looks to be a few million of his own invesment so he has a little riding on this other than a few dollars he is saving.....

 

[JustWood]

I'm FAR from being a post-modern environmentalist, however, to me, spraying used motor oil around the woods is on par with littering in the woods -or- taking a sh*t in the woods at a camp site without digging a cat-hole -or- shooting towards the noise in the bushes versus having visual confirmation of the deer before taking a shot. It just comes across as being somewhat lazy and irresponsible.

Your better off crapping in the woods.

(broken link removed)

Sorry folks,,, heavy metals are everywhere.
How many have taken free compost from your municipality?
Did you put it on your garden?

You really don't read, do you? The first lines in that say the wastewater is from INDUSTRIAL and Municipal - not from human feces.

Whut part uf municipal sewage didn't yew understand! DUH!

 

[Extremebison]

I had no idea "Free Chain oil" was so controversial, this is getting good.

 

[JustWood]

Is chain oil really that expensive? Also, chain oil comes in various viscosities based on the season. There are many reasons why used motor oil is considered hazardous waste. I send it for recycling, rather than reusing it as chain oil. That means that I am not exposing myself/family to the used oil carcinogens etc. and I am not polluting the bush with it. As woodburners, we should all strive to be good stewards of the forest.

EPA does not consider it hazardous waste.
IF there were carcinogens in the oil , it's already in the air from being in your engine.
Exhaust = in the air.

Not managed as Hazardous Waste if it is managed as USED OIL - which you are not doing. If you were caught, you could get cited for either USED OIL regs or Haz Waste. I would bet my pay check that the used oil will trigger the TCLP levels for metals and be Haz Waste.

Used oil is not considered haz. waste. UNLESS it is mixed with other stuff such as paint thinner,antifreeze, etc.
Go to the EPA website and read up.

You must have trouble reading. It is not Haz Waste IF it is managed as USED OIL. You still have to sample that USED OIL for total halogens to be able to manage it and get rid of it as USED OIL. I do this for a living, I don't need the website right now.

If you do this for a living you should have easy access to info. I'm from Oklahoma !
EPA sez different!

 

[Willman]

I knew a heavy duty diesel mechanic for Cat. He told me that at certain intervals oil samples from the engines were sent out for analysis. The lab reports could point out which part of the engine was wearing and if it was normal wear or abnormal wear. Made for more precise PM on very expensive rigs.

In this lengthy thread I haven't seen anyone telling about using ATF for B&C oil. No combustion contaminates to deal with just a little friction material as well as some metal. Its even the same color. I am about out of regular B&C so I will give it a try. Yes there is a service interval for ATF. I save my old veggy oil and use it to coat concrete forms, might even try it for the B&C after filtering out the crumbs, mostly which sink to bottom of jug.

Will

 

[smokinj]

I knew a heavy duty diesel mechanic for Cat. He told me that at certain intervals oil samples from the engines were sent out for analysis. The lab reports could point out which part of the engine was wearing and if it was normal wear or abnormal wear. Made for more precise PM on very expensive rigs.

In this lengthy thread I haven't seen anyone telling about using ATF for B&C oil. No combustion contaminates to deal with just a little friction material as well as some metal. Its even the same color. I am about out of regular B&C so I will give it a try. Yes there is a service interval for ATF. I save my old veggy oil and use it to coat concrete forms, might even try it for the B&C after filtering out the crumbs, mostly which sink to bottom of jug.

Will

New thread...lol I use veggie and atf as well. More veggie then anything. Most of my veggie oil I get free so its a no brain-er.