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+1 on the direct connect to clayliner. Cant imagine why anyone with a masonry chimney in good condition would want another liner especially if they burn as primary heat ie 24-7 seems to me any liner that stays hot will maintain draft. besides once you establish good draft whats the benefit of better draft unless we're talkin beer. I posted a thread about more or less draft and the benefit im pretty sure i never got any good reason why super draft is better than good draft but i will go back find it and correct myself if im wrong.
Bone1099 said:
I think part of the benefit of a liner is in cleaning the chimney, as opposed with a direct connect its more troublesome, because you have to remove the stove ect, but that doesn't address the good draft vs super draft question. In any event back to the the Insulflex, have we gotten a price quote on it yet?
I don't think I've ever met a bigger A**... Sorry about the pictures I should have resized them. Going to take my gf out for dinner I can add pictures of her.. very delightful
Of course they will be sized appropriately.
Of course they will be sized appropriately.
Think what you like but the reason for not posting the huge pics is that anybody that revisits the thread has to wait for the monsters to load all over again and it takes forever for them to get down past them to the newest posting.
Call me an ass again and the thread is toast.
Call me an ass again and the thread is toast.
OK. I have received enough PMs to convince me he was talking about Pook so me and Magnaflex are in perfect agreement on that one. Not a few other things, but that one. :coolsmirk:
done however since i was quoted by MH & durutti123 the pic remains in until they remove the link
btw no disrespect meant - that pic has been on the net for ever
btw no disrespect meant - that pic has been on the net for ever
Magic Heat, (or Pook, or "Jesus" or Getontheball -whatever chameleon name you choose to be called ),
You are totally missing the point and are simply trolling. Once an ss liner is encased in insulation the liner has achieved zero clearance for fire resistance. Doesn't matter what is 'outside' the blanket of insulation (aluminum, chicken wire, etc.). Period.
Shari
You are totally missing the point and are simply trolling. Once an ss liner is encased in insulation the liner has achieved zero clearance for fire resistance. Doesn't matter what is 'outside' the blanket of insulation (aluminum, chicken wire, etc.). Period.
Shari
While I'm trying not to feed the troll I do have some questions. What difference does it make if Aluminum melts at 1400*F? Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me a chimney fire would have to exceed 2100*F before the integrity of 316Ti with insulation is compromised.
If this is the case then other structural damage should be evident, regardless if the aluminum has melted, correct? Should be understandable if someone gets their stove a little hot once or twice. But a chimney fire is just that.
Please correct me if I am wrong. Any fire that exceeds 2100*F and causes structural damage would require total replacement of components considering the house survived a fire of that magnitude.
If this is the case then other structural damage should be evident, regardless if the aluminum has melted, correct? Should be understandable if someone gets their stove a little hot once or twice. But a chimney fire is just that.
Please correct me if I am wrong. Any fire that exceeds 2100*F and causes structural damage would require total replacement of components considering the house survived a fire of that magnitude.
Linux_Tyro said:
That's what I'm screaming. If I had a true, raging chimney fire, I'd yank whatever exhaust system I had (flex liner, rigid liner, masonry, 6" class a, etc.) and just reinstall. I'd always have the question in the back of my mind about just how safe the system was, even if it "survived" the fire.
Stevebass4 said:
That pic makes me want to smoke when I'm an infant. This would offend my parents
Magnaflex...why not just post testing data that shows you have done simulated chimney fire testing and indicate what temp the Al outer liner reached during this testing and whether any melting and / or stuctural damage to the liner occured?
I'm not agreeing with pook - BUT - you could shut him up fairly quickly by simply showing that you have tested the safety of your liner in a chimney fire, and when the inner liner was at ~2100F, the AL outer liner was only at XXX(X?)F. Seems like this data should pretty much be at your fingertips, and with a zero clearance rating the AL temp must have been so low that there wasn't even any concern it was going to ignite nearby combustables? Why haven't you just thrown some numbers at him?
This product is very interesting to me for a fireplace install I have been considering, but I'd like to go through the damper without doing any sawzalling in case I want to switch back to a regular fireplace at some point. Also, it may be easier for me to go up from the bottom with the liner as my chimney has a masonry cap that will be a PITA to remove and reinstall just to throw a flex liner in. If you figure out a way to ovalize this bad boy to a 4 x 8 or similar dimensions (and if the hose clamps will fit through an opening those same dimensions), post about it.
Pagey - I agree a real rager would equal time to reinstall, but in the meantime you want to know whatever liner you have is going to stand up to ONE real raging chimney fire without allowing the fire to spread to your living space, so the concern is understandable...just obnoxiously expressed.
And those of you questioning whether more draft always = better stove performance, it doesn't. An incorrectly sized liner can overdraft a stove, causing difficulty keeping the temps down and higher wood consumption. The bottom line is whatever (safe) setup gives you the cruising temps you want and the efficiency your stove is capable of, that is the setup for you. For some this means an insulated liner, for some an uninsulated liner sized for their stove, and for others a direct connect will get the job done perfect all day long.
I'm not agreeing with pook - BUT - you could shut him up fairly quickly by simply showing that you have tested the safety of your liner in a chimney fire, and when the inner liner was at ~2100F, the AL outer liner was only at XXX(X?)F. Seems like this data should pretty much be at your fingertips, and with a zero clearance rating the AL temp must have been so low that there wasn't even any concern it was going to ignite nearby combustables? Why haven't you just thrown some numbers at him?
This product is very interesting to me for a fireplace install I have been considering, but I'd like to go through the damper without doing any sawzalling in case I want to switch back to a regular fireplace at some point. Also, it may be easier for me to go up from the bottom with the liner as my chimney has a masonry cap that will be a PITA to remove and reinstall just to throw a flex liner in. If you figure out a way to ovalize this bad boy to a 4 x 8 or similar dimensions (and if the hose clamps will fit through an opening those same dimensions), post about it.
Pagey - I agree a real rager would equal time to reinstall, but in the meantime you want to know whatever liner you have is going to stand up to ONE real raging chimney fire without allowing the fire to spread to your living space, so the concern is understandable...just obnoxiously expressed.
And those of you questioning whether more draft always = better stove performance, it doesn't. An incorrectly sized liner can overdraft a stove, causing difficulty keeping the temps down and higher wood consumption. The bottom line is whatever (safe) setup gives you the cruising temps you want and the efficiency your stove is capable of, that is the setup for you. For some this means an insulated liner, for some an uninsulated liner sized for their stove, and for others a direct connect will get the job done perfect all day long.
Pagey said:
I agree.
I do think this looks like a fine product and I would use it without concern. But since maybe the thread has degraded into a trolling expedition, I'll hop on. It is also reasonable to state that it makes a lot of sense for the outer material securing the insulation wrap to have a high temp rating. If that material fails (that's just "if"), then does the insulation partially "unwrap" in a large flue? Is the fire then less contained than it might be?
Pook can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's just asking if the aluminum fails, what then? And is the "what then" based on theory or actual testing?
Pook can correct me if I'm wrong, but I also think he's insane. Not that there's anything wrong with it. I think he just likes rusty steel better than shiny aluminum.
Thats not good enough I want stats now, if you weigh the same as a duck, your a witch..burn her! I want I want, your wrong gimme gimme look at me and my big words!
Mag,
Just offer a SS/ceramic/SS version for Pook (or anyone else that's overly concerned), should he actually decide to crack his checkbook open. Include a few bags of perlite as well to pack between your insulated liner and his tile for that extra measure of protection...
Just offer a SS/ceramic/SS version for Pook (or anyone else that's overly concerned), should he actually decide to crack his checkbook open. Include a few bags of perlite as well to pack between your insulated liner and his tile for that extra measure of protection...
We have started initiating both UL and Warnock Tests. We have been allowed by both field officers to begin using this product based on previous testings. Attached is the testing we did for a pellet liner system back in 1991. As you can see the tests were recorded into 1700f and passed. Hope this clears up any confusion. Yet for some reason I think he/she might feel like it will fuel their fire.
(broken link removed to http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B3ZQr-QWbO2dNWI0OWFkNzUtYTVkNi00YWE2LWIwNTgtNjM4NmQ3OTA0MjU5&hl=en)
(broken link removed to http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B3ZQr-QWbO2dNWI0OWFkNzUtYTVkNi00YWE2LWIwNTgtNjM4NmQ3OTA0MjU5&hl=en)
Franks said:
Scot, that is a very good idea.. That would solve all of his problems I guess. I have attached testing data we did for the 3003 AL up to 1700 f... I feel exhausted with this guy... Reminds me of a kid asking "are we there yet".
Wet1 said:
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