For Dylan: Heating in Scotland

[Burn-1]

Scottie (respectfully):

It seems to me you and your countrymen are prime candidates for doing some serious R&D into developing a low cost fuel saving masonry heater.

They can be expensive but they don't "have" to be as evidenced here:

I found this (broken link removed to http://www.dnr.mo.gov/pubs/pub781.pdf) the other day while looking for info on masonry heaters. I wouldn't want to DIY this but it's got some good construction info and I'm pretty impressed that this study was undertaken and published by the state of Missouri. Not a bad use for taxpayer dollars. I don't know how low-cost it would be but it looks pretty bare-bones compared to some of the more ornate Tulikivis so I'm guessing it would probably be at the lower end of the scale. Unfortunately, as Jtc noted, land and real estate in general in Scotland and the UK is really expensive so most housing is existing rather than new and it might be difficult to retrofit these into existing buildings especially older ones.

 

[jjbaer]

Scottie (respectfully):

It seems to me you and your countrymen are prime candidates for doing some serious R&D into developing a low cost fuel saving masonry heater.

They can be expensive but they don't "have" to be as evidenced here:

I found this (broken link removed to http://www.dnr.mo.gov/pubs/pub781.pdf) the other day while looking for info on masonry heaters. I wouldn't want to DIY this but it's got some good construction info and I'm pretty impressed that this study was undertaken and published by the state of Missouri. Not a bad use for taxpayer dollars. I don't know how low-cost it would be but it looks pretty bare-bones compared to some of the more ornate Tulikivis so I'm guessing it would probably be at the lower end of the scale. Unfortunately, as Jtc noted, land and real estate in general in Scotland and the UK is really expensive so most housing is existing rather than new and it might be difficult to retrofit these into existing buildings especially older ones.

I read part of this and I think the guys wrong about the hearth pad......he says a reinforced pad is required (he's right) and his drawing shows a 5.5 inch thick pad.......my comment is that I'd be worried about breaking the pad. If I put a 11,000 pound object in such a small square footage area, I think I'd have a deep footer under it......my homes chimney has such a footer..........

 

[Mike Wilson]

I will gladly pay for a one way plane ticket and the limo to the airport for any US citizen on this forum who thinks they would be better off spending the rest of their lives living amongst the EuroTrash in their socialist paradise, and will leave this country permanently. Any takers? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller?

I thought not.

-- Mike

PS - Where can I get some smokeless briquettes to try???!!

 

[Martin Strand III]

The Missouri Masonry Stove looks like a valid attempt for US enterring the euro/canadian Masonry Heater market. It would be interesting to see if it actually meets the definition of a "masonry heater" (notice it's called a 'stove' not a 'heater'), how the stats compare and what the MHA (Canada) has to say about it.

If it is effective, clean burning, a lot less expensive to erect and brings this sensible heat source to the masses, it can't be bad. Seems to require some specialized masonry know-how but maybe not.

And you are right. In Scotland (or Missouri), retrofitting this baby into an existing home with the required hefty floor pad, foundations and footings would be one tough job probably adding to the expense in labor that would consume its financial incentive. It's best to build a house around it.

Aye,
Marty

 

[jjbaer]

I will gladly pay for a one way plane ticket and the limo to the airport for any US citizen on this forum who thinks they would be better off spending the rest of their lives living amongst the EuroTrash in their socialist paradise, and will leave this country permanently. Any takers? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller?

I thought not.

-- Mike

PS - Where can I get some smokeless briquettes to try???!!

Reminds me of what Alec Baldwin supposedly said during the 2000 Presidential election...that if Bush won he'd move to Europe or Africa or somewhere overseas......so.....when Bush won, people sent him $1 bills to help him rent a U-Haul to get him out of the United States.......

Also reminded me of some dems who, after losing again in the 2004 election, said they were going to move to Canada. A farmer on the US side of the N. Dakota/Canadian border supposedly reported that he heard a clamour out in his barn late one cold November night and when he went to investigate, he found a cold, starving, Hollywood Liberal hunkered down in his hay-loft. The farmer offered him a hot chicken sandwich and hot coffee but the Hollywood lib refused and stammered off (still cold and hungry) into Canada when he found out it wasn't free-range chicken and a mocca latte......LOL.................

 

[smirnov3]

Where's Craig? He keeps saying how wonderful it is in those socialist countries overseas.

Socialism and capitalism are both bad. In one case the gov't robs you blind, in the other Bill Gates & friends do.

So you got to walk a fine line between the two.

And FYI, we have cheap gass partly because the Gov't subsidizes it about $1 a gallon (through tax breaks)

Yeah...but there's a difference: Socialism takes it in massive quantities ($9 gas), capitalism is much more economical........so, I vote for capitalism.

I agree that capitalism works better than Socialism, so we need more of it. But we do need both.

Also, Bill Gates made his own way in the world.....nobody gave him squat but Socialism takes it from those who work the hardest and gives it to those who choose to not work as hard........so again, I vote for capitalism

Yes, the CEO who make 500-1000 times as much as the guys on the factory floor deserve that much money.

And it just make sense to fire americans and re-build the factory in India

And there is nothing wrong with the fact that Native Americans are effectivly living in a third world country (Average life expectancy for man on an Indian Reservation is 54 years)

And companies shouldn't have to worry about where they dump their industrial waste.

I'm not an extremest. All I'm saying that Capitalism has its down sides too.

And I have noticed that people who live in more heavilly populated areas want more regulation to help them get along, which is why Europe ends up being more socialist.

 

[jjbaer]

Where's Craig? He keeps saying how wonderful it is in those socialist countries overseas.

I agree that capitalism works better than Socialism, so we need more of it. But we do need both.

Also, Bill Gates made his own way in the world.....nobody gave him squat but Socialism takes it from those who work the hardest and gives it to those who choose to not work as hard........so again, I vote for capitalism

Yes, the CEO who make 500-1000 times as much as the guys on the factory floor deserve that much money.

And it just make sense to fire americans and re-build the factory in India

And there is nothing wrong with the fact that Native Americans are effectivly living in a third world country (Average life expectancy for man on an Indian Reservation is 54 years)

And companies shouldn't have to worry about where they dump their industrial waste.

I'm not an extremest. All I'm saying that Capitalism has its down sides too.

And I have noticed that people who live in more heavilly populated areas want more regulation to help them get along, which is why Europe ends up being more socialist.

You miss the point....Gates took all the risk....dropped out of college and went on to found a company that gives jobs to tens of thousands of people today...darn right he deserves the bucks. Now, for a CEO who simply assumes the helm of a company he/she didn't start, I agree with you...they're paid way too much but Gates is different....he took enormous risks.....they didn't.

 

[jtcedinburgh]

I will gladly pay for a one way plane ticket and the limo to the airport for any US citizen on this forum who thinks they would be better off spending the rest of their lives living amongst the EuroTrash in their socialist paradise, and will leave this country permanently. Any takers? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller?

I'd rather live here (not socialist in the strictest sense, though I can see where your ill-informed viewpoint is coming from) than in the US, though - too many redneck gun-totin' small-minded types for my liking... and at least we don't have a clueless chimp running our country*... makes you wonder about the mentality of a country that would vote for such a regime...

* we do, however, have a weak-willed, ineffective PM who really wants to be the clueless chimp's best friend... so, maybe we're no better off that way.

Anyway, let's bury this one! Miaow!

Back on-topic - the reality of the situation over here is that we are a much older country than the US, and our housing stock is in many cases hundreds of years old. As we have a heritage of which we are proud, and one we wish to protect, we don't demolish older buildings but 'make good'. Sadly, old-fashioned building construction (using stone and brick) is generally not as efficient as more modern materials, but we stick by it because it has character, longevity and because we have seen the fads come and go and realise that older property is the sound investment. As a nation of home-owners (by preference people tend to buy rather than rent) the values of our homes is important as it is not so easy to simply build new housing for sensible money.

Electricity is around 10p/KWh, which at the moment is ~$0.20, but that includes a 5% tax. Gas is harder to calculate and I'd have to go check.

 

[jjbaer]

I will gladly pay for a one way plane ticket and the limo to the airport for any US citizen on this forum who thinks they would be better off spending the rest of their lives living amongst the EuroTrash in their socialist paradise, and will leave this country permanently. Any takers? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller?

I'd rather live here (not socialist in the strictest sense, though I can see where your ill-informed viewpoint is coming from) than in the US, though - too many redneck gun-totin' small-minded types for my liking... and at least we don't have a clueless chimp running our country*... makes you wonder about the mentality of a country that would vote for such a regime...

* we do, however, have a weak-willed, ineffective PM who really wants to be the clueless chimp's best friend... so, maybe we're no better off that way.

Anyway, let's bury this one! Miaow!

Back on-topic - the reality of the situation over here is that we are a much older country than the US, and our housing stock is in many cases hundreds of years old. As we have a heritage of which we are proud, and one we wish to protect, we don't demolish older buildings but 'make good'. Sadly, old-fashioned building construction (using stone and brick) is generally not as efficient as more modern materials, but we stick by it because it has character, longevity and because we have seen the fads come and go and realise that older property is the sound investment. As a nation of home-owners (by preference people tend to buy rather than rent) the values of our homes is important as it is not so easy to simply build new housing for sensible money.

Electricity is around 10p/KWh, which at the moment is ~$0.20, but that includes a 5% tax. Gas is harder to calculate and I'd have to go check.

Memo to our friend across the pond (jtcedinburgh),

Mike was wrong to use the word "Euro trash" however, I also don't think it's appropriate that you refer to us as a country of:

"too many redneck gun-totin' small-minded types for my liking... and at least we don't have a clueless chimp running our country*... makes you wonder about the mentality of a country that would vote for such a regime... call

Let's see:

1) we "small-minded types" are ONLY the most prosperous country in the world.....

2) we "small-minded types" ONLY file for and receive more patents than any other country in the world..... : ;-P

3) we "small-minded types" are ONLY home to where more people want to emigrate to than any other country in the world........ :lol:

4) we "small-minded types" are ONLY home to a country (unlike Europe) where the "rags to riches" dream is still possible.....

5) we "red neck gun-toters" are the only thing other than our military that would prevent any other country from trying to occupy the United States.....can't say the same for Europe (especially Britain) where they won't let law-abiding citizens even have guns for self-protection and where, if your home is invaded by gun-totting criminals, that if you Brits don't offer the criminal element "biscuits and tea" or if you "dare to defend yourself", your perverse justice system punishes the homeowner for "daring to defend himself"..........and that, my friend, makes ME (as you said) "wonder about the mentality of a country that would vote for such a regime... :coolgrin:

Also, that "clueless chimp" you refer to has more backbone and integrity that almost any previous president we've ever had AND he comes from a long line of other US Presidents, a couple of whom I recall, bailed Europe out of WW-I AND WW-II...... :ahhh:

And lastly, you apparently didn't learn anything from WW-I and WW-II as our (as you said) "clueless chimp" and your (as you said) "weak-willed, ineffective PM who really wants to be the clueless chimp's best friend" now both take necessary action to stave off WW-III, the war of ideology with Islam, yet you can't see this. Well, there we have it again, the US and Blair are working on saving Europe from having to even fight another war as most Europeans just "sit this one out"........

Shame on you for not remembering the famous quote from (of all people) BRITISH author, George Orwell who said: "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf" Those "rough men" Orwell speaks of are (as you said) the "chimp and his sidekick"...... >:-(


But, as you also said, "Anyway, let's bury this one! Miaow!"....LOL

PS have been to Britain and, in spite of the above, very much liked the country, its people and their culture!

 

[Bushfire]

I will gladly pay for a one way plane ticket and the limo to the airport for any US citizen on this forum who thinks they would be better off spending the rest of their lives living amongst the EuroTrash in their socialist paradise, and will leave this country permanently. Any takers? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller?

I'd rather live here (not socialist in the strictest sense, though I can see where your ill-informed viewpoint is coming from) than in the US, though - too many redneck gun-totin' small-minded types for my liking... and at least we don't have a clueless chimp running our country*... makes you wonder about the mentality of a country that would vote for such a regime...

* we do, however, have a weak-willed, ineffective PM who really wants to be the clueless chimp's best friend... so, maybe we're no better off that way.

Anyway, let's bury this one! Miaow!

Back on-topic - the reality of the situation over here is that we are a much older country than the US, and our housing stock is in many cases hundreds of years old. As we have a heritage of which we are proud, and one we wish to protect, we don't demolish older buildings but 'make good'. Sadly, old-fashioned building construction (using stone and brick) is generally not as efficient as more modern materials, but we stick by it because it has character, longevity and because we have seen the fads come and go and realise that older property is the sound investment. As a nation of home-owners (by preference people tend to buy rather than rent) the values of our homes is important as it is not so easy to simply build new housing for sensible money.

Electricity is around 10p/KWh, which at the moment is ~$0.20, but that includes a 5% tax. Gas is harder to calculate and I'd have to go check.

Memo to our friend across the pond (jtcedinburgh),

Mike was wrong to use the word "Euro trash" however, I also don't think it's appropriate that you refer to us as a country of:

"too many redneck gun-totin' small-minded types for my liking... and at least we don't have a clueless chimp running our country*... makes you wonder about the mentality of a country that would vote for such a regime... call

Let's see:

1) we "small-minded types" are ONLY the most prosperous country in the world.....

2) we "small-minded types" ONLY file for and receive more patents than any other country in the world..... : ;-P

3) we "small-minded types" are ONLY home to where more people want to emigrate to than any other country in the world........ :lol:

4) we "small-minded types" are ONLY home to a country (unlike Europe) where the "rags to riches" dream is still possible.....

5) we "red neck gun-toters" are the only thing other than our military that would prevent any other country from trying to occupy the United States.....can't say the same for Europe (especially Britain) where they won't let law-abiding citizens even have guns for self-protection and where, if your home is invaded by gun-totting criminals, that if you Brits don't offer the criminal element "biscuits and tea" or if you "dare to defend yourself", your perverse justice system punishes the homeowner for "daring to defend himself"..........and that, my friend, makes ME (as you said) "wonder about the mentality of a country that would vote for such a regime... :coolgrin:

Also, that "clueless chimp" you refer to has more backbone and integrity that almost any previous president we've ever had AND he comes from a long line of other US Presidents, a couple of whom I recall, bailed Europe out of WW-I AND WW-II...... :ahhh:

And lastly, you apparently didn't learn anything from WW-I and WW-II as our (as you said) "clueless chimp" and your (as you said) "weak-willed, ineffective PM who really wants to be the clueless chimp's best friend" now both take necessary action to stave off WW-III, the war of ideology with Islam, yet you can't see this. Well, there we have it again, the US and Blair are working on saving Europe from having to even fight another war as most Europeans just "sit this one out"........

Shame on you for not remembering the famous quote from (of all people) BRITISH author, George Orwell who said: "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf" Those "rough men" Orwell speaks of are (as you said) the "chimp and his sidekick"...... >:-(


But, as you also said, "Anyway, let's bury this one! Miaow!"....LOL

PS have been to Britain and, in spite of the above, very much liked the country, its people and their culture!

Stave off WW-III? They're not saving us from it, they're creating it. The flip-flop antics of this current president (and my own PM) when it comes to this ridiculous war makes me sick. Yes, they are brave men and women, but they have been fooled by GW and his sidekicks of Cheney and Rumsfeld (who, thankfully, is no longer around - although the damage has been done).

And your four statements above only hold true by the smallest of threads, and in some cases can be out right refuted, depending upon your point of view and data gathered.

 

[jjbaer]

And your four statements above only hold true by the smallest of threads, and in some cases can be out right refuted, depending upon your point of view and data gathered.

Oh really....well then, take a stab at them. You can start with something I didn't mention.....Nevel Chamberlin......Brit who was fooled by Hitler #1 (Iran president is Hitler #2) and who returned to the British people waving a piece of paper from Hitler claiming "peace in our time".........yeah.....that really worked but then again, the British people liked what he said until they found out Hitler lied.......bottom line: brave men like Blair aren't fooled, know what awaits them and, though it be unpopular, they act.......kinda sounds like Churchill, doesn't it?

 

[Eric Johnson]

You may have antiquated construction materials and techniques to work with, but you've also got that nectar of the gods that's put in barrels and aged for decades to keep you warm on those cold Scottish nights.

Americans are basically decent folks, but you woudn't know it by listening to the loudmouth windbags who seem to dominate popular culture these days.

 

[jtcedinburgh]

Anyway, folks, let's not start a US-versus-UK debate. It's kinda pointless, we each have our plus and our minus points.

Whisky, now there's a topic I can talk for hours on...