FISHER Grandma and Grandpa Bear Details (Fireplace Series)

[ucdcrew]

I've got a wiggly door latch on a fireplace insert. Looks like it has grandma bear doors. I think the person that was using it before me was forcing the latch over the top of the nickle protection plates, and it made the door latch loose. I put a gasket in there just to see what would happen, and it burned low overnight. The gasket is a fix, but it would be cool to get it back to original - am I looking at a new door or is there a way to just pull the handle/latch off? The whole stove is black, but it had those nickle protection plates so I'm hoping i might find nickle doors...
(broken image removed)

 

[coaly]

To tighten, you need to heat the bend of the latch / handle rod inside to make the bend tighter. It contacts a wedge welded to the stove and the pressure pulling tight over the years tends to straighten the 1/2 rod, no longer pulling in as tight. If you put a piece of pipe on it and bend it cold, (they bend easily) when it gets hot they tend to go back. Bringing to cherry red and bending prevents it from returning.
No doubt you will find nickel plated doors. Lacquer thinner removes paint, then polish with metal polish such as Maas. The draft cap edges were probably polished as well.

 

[tamman]

Thanks so much Coaly, I think I will just go ahead and cap the rear vent, top chimney with manual dampener
and leave the air box in and run it without a baffle.
On re-conditioning, I have not found any PB Blaster locally, for the rust. On line it claims to be the 'best' penetrate,
but I have always used one of many products with phosphoric acid such as 'Ospho' to convert rust to a paintable
black surface. Again, thanks for the help.

 

[tommyg]

This looks just like my stove. I have had this stove for several years. It is in my living room and this stove will heat my entire house. Mine had some surface rust. I sand blasted and repainted it. Turned out great and I love it.

 

[Idano]

Hi Coaly,
I'm preparing to install a '76 Grandpa bear and have been enjoying all of the info you've put out. I've got a questions about some brackets attached to the back wall. They're the same as the brackets that hold the firebrick but they're about 4" above the brick. There are 3 in a row with the outer end of the bracket bending up. Above them centered on the middle bracket is a bracket bending down about the width of a firebrick above the others. It kinda looks like they're suppose to hold one long horizontal firebrick in place but they're not even centered across the back. Do you think these are original for a purpose or did someone add them?
Thanks!

 

[coaly]

Welcome to the Forum;
You're right, they are laid sideways.There was a drawing revision sent out in 1977 adding the second course. No idea why an older stove would have them. They were not on all later stoves and the stoves without them show no sign of problems. I've seen some retainers (1 1/2 X 1 1/2 angle iron "clips") positioned like that to be able to slide a brick between the brackets then slide it sideways. When you get the bricks positioned right, each bracket may catch the corners of two bricks. So it works good when the clips are positioned at the joints between bricks.
Is the stove 'top vented' ? It should certainly have a baffle plate added, so the top of the bottom bricks would support the baffle like a shelf. That would take the heat off that area anyway. Don't know if you read about the cardboard trick, but make a baffle plate template from cardboard to get it just right and you have a pattern to make the steel plate from. Best to use 5/16 thick in the case of a Grandpa width.

 

[Idano]

Welcome to the Forum;
You're right, they are laid sideways.There was a drawing revision sent out in 1977 adding the second course. No idea why an older stove would have them. They were not on all later stoves and the stoves without them show no sign of problems. I've seen some retainers (1 1/2 X 1 1/2 angle iron "clips") positioned like that to be able to slide a brick between the brackets then slide it sideways. When you get the bricks positioned right, each bracket may catch the corners of two bricks. So it works good when the clips are positioned at the joints between bricks.
Is the stove 'top vented' ? It should certainly have a baffle plate added, so the top of the bottom bricks would support the baffle like a shelf. That would take the heat off that area anyway. Don't know if you read about the cardboard trick, but make a baffle plate template from cardboard to get it just right and you have a pattern to make the steel plate from. Best to use 5/16 thick in the case of a Grandpa width.

Thanks Coaly,
Yep, it's a top vent. I still can't figure what they were trying to accomplish with a horizontal row of fire brick 4" above the lower brick. It doesn't go all the way across either. If you put two 9" firebrick in it would leave 7" to the right. I'm going to put a baffle in it anyway. I'm thinking of resting it on the three mystery brackets rather then the top of the fire brick and angling toward the bend in the top. I mostly plan on using this stove with the doors open and the screen in place for enjoying the fire as I heat with an outdoor wood boiler. The higher baffle position would give me more firebox but do you think I'd be better off with the higher angle I'd get from the lower position?

 

[coaly]

You'll find with no baffle and open door burning it will eat wood and not heat up much. They are not considered a radiant heater in fireplace mode. I found where the edge of baffle plate terminates makes more difference than the angle. You want to aim it at the lower top section near the lower bend in the top. Factory baffle angle in later stoves measures 30*.
The white spots on the Papa below show where the intense heat is and why they bricked the top with a second course. Some paint is more susceptible to whitening than others. It didn't bow or harm this stove. The metal can get hairline cracks on the back around the flue pipe on the rear vent models. Stop drilling the crack and welding repairs them fine. You're not getting that kind of heat on the back with a top vent. Around the vent on top is another story, but that's 5/16 not 1/4" thick.

 

[js312]

This is more a curiosity thing. My mom has this stove in her basement, has been as long as she has owned the house (which was built in '76). I went up the other day to clean up around it and light it for her since it is getting colder. They generally burn about 2 cord per year with it, but this year she hadn't used it yet.

I believe it is a Grandpa bear. I didn't take measurements, but I noticed a "GP" stamped on the inside of the left door. Is that indeed what it is? It it late 70s/early 80s?

Picture cuts off the bottom, but it also has feet that look like claws.

 

[webby3650]

Looks like a grandma to me. Did you happen to measure the width of the stove?

 

[js312]

Looks like a grandma to me. Did you happen to measure the width of the stove?

I have not. I will next time I go up.

I was leaning toward grandpa only because of the "GP" on the inside of the left door and because I found this thread https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/grandma-bear-new-to-wood-stoves-forum.152063/ with a grandma and it looks like a smaller stove to me.

 

[webby3650]

Pictures make it hard to tell. It's width or how many fire bricks across the back will be the way to tell.

 

[js312]

Pictures make it hard to tell. It's width or how many fire bricks across the back will be the way to tell.

I'll check both when I go up next.

It heats very well. I leave the dampers barely open and it heats her 1400 sq foot basement to mid 70s no problem which keeps the main floor mid 60s and the furnace never really kicks on.

If I open them much more, the heat gets overwhelming fast.

 

[coaly]

Grandpa III. (I'll explain below how to tell from door picture only)
The doors are usually marked GP L and GP R for left and right. But not always. Grandma will have GM.
It will have 6 bricks across back unlike Grandma with 5.

It could be a 1979 model since it is the old style box with angle iron corners. The arched top Cathedral doors were a new option for 1979 and existed along with the older flat top doors that year only. 1980 started the one piece box with bent corners and only arched type doors were available from 1980 until production ceased. Most fabricators continued to produce the old style box that was not UL approved without shields for a $100 savings over the new style box. (for use on non combustible hearth) So it could be one of those from later years.
The feet were sold as an accessory.

Flat top doors are easy to tell the difference by the space between trees at center. Cathedral type doors are a little more difficult, but you can tell with a clear picture.
I'll let the secret out of how to tell Grandpa from Grandma doors in a picture. Grandpa doors are much wider, but so is the Fir tree scene. There are a few differences you can tell without measuring.
Look closely at the left door of the stove posted by js312. Notice the distance from draft knob to the tree trunk to the right of knob. Lots of space there. That is a wide door.
Now compare to the stove pictured below. Look close at Left door from knob to tree trunk to the right of knob; there is no space. Grandma.



Here's close ups of Grandma ....................................... and Grandpa;



Notice more of the center tree shows on Grandpa. The three trees are crowded together on Grandma. But it's hard to tell without having the two stoves in front of you. Then you notice the scenes are different as the pics above show.
It's easier to remember the larger space to the trunk on Grandpa. (notice in the close up, the trunk to left of knob is farther away on Grandpa as well) That's all you need to see of the two stoves to tell them apart.
You probably don't want to know how long it took me to figure that out.

 

[webby3650]

You never cease to amaze me! Now would you like to go into why it's not a "bear" ?

 

[coaly]

It is a Bear. A Grandpa Bear III. ??

 

[webby3650]

I thought the grandma and grandpa stoves didn't have the "bear" designation?

 

[js312]

Grandpa III. (I'll explain below how to tell from door picture only)
The doors are usually marked GP L and GP R for left and right. But not always. Grandma will have GM.
It will have 6 bricks across back unlike Grandma with 5.

It could be a 1979 model since it is the old style box with angle iron corners. The arched top Cathedral doors were a new option for 1979 and existed along with the older flat top doors that year only. 1980 started the one piece box with bent corners and only arched type doors were available from 1980 until production ceased. Most fabricators continued to produce the old style box that was not UL approved without shields for a $100 savings over the new style box. (for use on non combustible hearth) So it could be one of those from later years.
The feet were sold as an accessory.

Flat top doors are easy to tell the difference by the space between trees at center. Cathedral type doors are a little more difficult, but you can tell with a clear picture.
I'll let the secret out of how to tell Grandpa from Grandma doors in a picture. Grandpa doors are much wider, but so is the Fir tree scene. There are a few differences you can tell without measuring.
Look closely at the left door of the stove posted by js312. Notice the distance from draft knob to the tree trunk to the right of knob. Lots of space there. That is a wide door.
Now compare to the stove pictured below. Look close at Left door from knob to tree trunk to the right of knob; there is no space. Grandma.

View attachment 173089

Here's close ups of Grandma ....................................... and Grandpa;

View attachment 173090 View attachment 173091

Notice more of the center tree shows on Grandpa. The three trees are crowded together on Grandma. But it's hard to tell without having the two stoves in front of you. Then you notice the scenes are different as the pics above show.
It's easier to remember the larger space to the trunk on Grandpa. (notice in the close up, the trunk to left of knob is farther away on Grandpa as well) That's all you need to see of the two stoves to tell them apart.
You probably don't want to know how long it took me to figure that out.

Wow, lots of information! Thanks!

I don't believe there is a UL label on it anywhere, so it sounds like that would narrow it down to '79 or '80, correct?

Also, the kettle on top looks like it matches the stove to me (picture doesn't show the entire thing). Was that also an accessory.

She does have the screen insert as well.

 

[coaly]

Wow, lots of information! Thanks!

I don't believe there is a UL label on it anywhere, so it sounds like that would narrow it down to '79 or '80, correct?

Also, the kettle on top looks like it matches the stove to me (picture doesn't show the entire thing). Was that also an accessory.

She does have the screen insert as well.

No, the testing label was on the stoves with shields. If a customer was using the stove in a non-combustible area such as on cement floor in basement with cement or block wall behind it, or on a brick or stone fireplace hearth, you could save by not buying the listed model. So the unlisted model was produced buy most fabricators along with the more expensive listed model.

The kettle is not a Fisher item.
The screen came with the stove.

 

[js312]

No, the testing label was on the stoves with shields. If a customer was using the stove in a non-combustible area such as on cement floor in basement with cement or block wall behind it, or on a brick or stone fireplace hearth, you could save by not buying the listed model. So the unlisted model was produced buy most fabricators along with the more expensive listed model.

The kettle is not a Fisher item.
The screen came with the stove.

It's actually on a brick hearth which is on top of a concrete floor with a concrete wall behind it so no risk of combustion there!

The interesting thing about the kettle is the handle on it matches the spiral handles on the stove doors. I'll have to grab a picture of it.

She recently changed insurance companies and they wanted a photo of it, but didn't seem concerned about the stove itself. Just that it was indeed in a cement basement and didn't have anything flammable near it.

 

[coaly]

I thought the grandma and grandpa stoves didn't have the "bear" designation?

Technically they were trademarked, tested and listed as "Grandpa Bear tm Fireplace Stove ."The "bear" trademark name is on the cover of all manuals that contain them.

They are not a part of the "Bear Series" that was only Papa, Mama and Baby Bears. They are Fireplace Series stoves.

Here's a 1982 tag with the entire name given;

That would be on the rear shield.

Notice I used the entire "bear" name in this thread title, but many times for convenience the word bear is eliminated. Correspondence between people in the industry usually abbreviate GM and GP.

 

[Jhagg]

Can anyone shed some light on what appears to be a grandpa fireplace model with different style door hinges?

 

[Jhagg]

Just saw a 1976 Grandpa with 3 piece top for sale on Minneapolis craigslist. If anyone in that area is looking for that particular stove. It's advertised for $800

 

[coaly]

View attachment 186166
Can anyone shed some light on what appears to be a grandpa fireplace model with different style door hinges?

They are what I call "outboard" hinge plates since they are welded outside of the door hinge ears. Dunns in VA and W. VA was the only fabricator I know that used them.

 

[svlmustang]

I'm going to buy and fisher grandma or grandpa bear lll tomorrow morning, I'm excited! 300 dollars With all of this great info I printed the owner's manual all ready. It turned out to be nickel plated grandpa lll. I all ready have it installed in my basement!!