First time wood burner - be gentle...

[elkimmeg]

This is as new product this year Drolet 1400I wood burning insert.

29"w 21" h 14" deep require full top to bottom insulated liner to opperats correctly also included a 1330 cfm blower

Cost for stove and face plate should be between 1500 to 1600 O'm looking and wolesale pricing

1.8cu ft fire box Epa Certified


Napoleon EPI inset 26" wide 22 h 14" deep with door should retail around 1,800

 

[Creek-Chub]

Slight bump with new info...

Well folks, I think we've decided to try and modify the hearth, and put in a Jotul Oslo. Question:

What's underneath my firebox? I assume the hearth will come off, and I'll find cinder blocks underneath. Inside of the firebox (bottom) looks like some sort of firebrick. When I pull that up, what should I find? Also, the sides of the firebox are some sort of metal. If I want to lower the hearth (in order to gain more head room for the stove) what do I do about lining the rest of the firebox down to the floor? Photos are back on page one of this thread, or I can take some closer ones. Any thoughts?

 

[ncmallard78]

nice choice. im sitting here looking at my oslo right now with a tea kettle sitting on top. i LOVE my stove.

 

[Creek-Chub]

So........

What's underneath all the pretty stone I'm going to rip off? (Thanks for the kudos - those are darn nice looking stoves, aren't they?

Just in case the above post wasn't clear, I'm looking to remove the hearth down to the floor, and replace with hearth stone or something similar. Two questions:

1) What's under there? Just cinder blocks?
2) How do I refinish the inside of the firebox? Specifically, the sides. I'm assuming hearth stone for the bottom...

 

[Gooserider]

Slight bump with new info...

Well folks, I think we've decided to try and modify the hearth, and put in a Jotul Oslo. Question:

What's underneath my firebox? I assume the hearth will come off, and I'll find cinder blocks underneath. Inside of the firebox (bottom) looks like some sort of firebrick. When I pull that up, what should I find? Also, the sides of the firebox are some sort of metal. If I want to lower the hearth (in order to gain more head room for the stove) what do I do about lining the rest of the firebox down to the floor? Photos are back on page one of this thread, or I can take some closer ones. Any thoughts?

Hmmm.... That metal sides comment makes me nervous! Is this a genuine all masonry fireplace, or is it a zero-clearance "pre-fab" fireplace in a fancy stone surround? A masonry fire place shouldn't normally have metal sides, although they also used to make "heatform" units that were a metal insert of sorts that went into a masonry fireplace as a pre-fab firebox that was an early (and not very successful) effort at improving the heating efficiency of a traditional fireplace.

The code treatment, not to mention the construction details, are very different between a "real" masonry fireplace and a prefab unit. You can modify a masonry fireplace as you see fit, as long as what's left at the end of the project is structurally sound and still meets UL 1277 code requirements. These can be big "ifs", but it's doable. However a pre-fab allows NO modifications other than those that are listed as tested and approved by the stove manufacturer or are included in the directions of the insert maker. Generally that is because the modifications will potentially destroy the carefully engineered protection systems that allow the pre-fab installation to begin with, If it's a pre-fab, you may very well find combustible wooden framing is inside that lovely rock face...

You need to put the demo tools away until you've done some more research and figured out just what you have...

Some hints -
Vintage of house, does the fireplace match, or was it a later addition?
What's in the basement / crawl space? A masonry fireplace and chimney represents a great deal of weight, and reqires a substantial concrete footing. A ZC box does not.
What kind of chimney do you have? Masonry fireboxes usually have masonry (hopefully tile lined) chimneys, pre-fabs tend to have metal chimneys.

Gooserider

 

[kjklosek]

So........

What's underneath all the pretty stone I'm going to rip off? (Thanks for the kudos - those are darn nice looking stoves, aren't they?

Just in case the above post wasn't clear, I'm looking to remove the hearth down to the floor, and replace with hearth stone or something similar. Two questions:

1) What's under there? Just cinder blocks?
2) How do I refinish the inside of the firebox? Specifically, the sides. I'm assuming hearth stone for the bottom...

Go into your basement if you have one and look where the fireplace is.

Probably block and the hearth may be wood framing with a poured concrete pad and then block with stone veneer.

If you have a crawl space then it may be block to a footing. Unless you ar on a slab.

I have an Oslo as well,great stove. Would you be able to do a rear vent into the firebox, then up?

J.P.

 

[Creek-Chub]

Geez, now I'm nervous. It's certainly not a zero clearance fireplace, but the "pre-fab" comments are starting to get me thinking. The original house is from the 1920's or so, with a fairly sizeable 2-story addition. The addition is (guessing) roughly 40 or so years old, and that's where the fireplace is located. We bought it from an estate a year ago, gutted it, and started over. If the snow we're getting melts off tomorrow I'll get up on the roof and see if the chimney has a metal liner all the way up or is clay. The damper makes a jog so I can't see from the bottom, plus the fireplace is roaring right now and I'm not in need of a haircut.

The metal around the back and sides makes me think this is some sort of a pre-fab design, as mentioned above. The fireplace is over a crawl space, and there is indeed a footing with concrete blocks coming up from the footing. The concrete blocks carry up through the second story, and are then framed around and drywalled. It is an interior chimney. The facing on the chimney (in the room where the fireplace is located) is a limestone veneer roughly 4 or 5 inches thick.

So - assuming this is some sort of a pre-fab design. If I tear out the lower part of the hearth, I'll be left with a pre-fab metal "liner", that ends about two feet above the floor. Can't I just run fire-brick or something similar up the sides until it meets the metal surround and somehow tie it in together? Keep in mind that I'm planning to slide a stove partway in, and run a stainless liner up the existing chimney.

SmokinJoe - I would love nothing more than to stick a rear-vent stove in and call it good, but my problem is that I've only got 25 inches of height on the existing opening in the fireplace. That would severely limit my choices of stoves that will fit, and probably push me into a stove that isn't large enough to do what I want it to. I'm trying to heat as much of our 2500 sf as I can, and would be limited to a 1000 sf rated stove, if that. Unfortunately, looks are a concern as well. The best I would be able to get away with is a pretty little Vermont Castings that would do little more than heat the room it is located in.

More detailed pictures would probably help here, so i'll get some tomorrow and throw them up here. Thanks again for the help thus far fellas...

 

[Gooserider]

Well that you have a masonry structure in the basement suggests that it might be a "heatform" as opposed to a zero clearance unit. I didn't see them in the pictures, but sometimes the heat form units had vents at the top and bottom to allow the metal shell to act as a convection heater. Do you have anything like that? Also look for any data plates you can find.

If it is a heatform, it would be good as you have more options. It might not be a bad idea to bring in a mason at some point and have him take a look and give some professional advice. It is sometimes hard to do this stuff on line just because we can't really look at things in person.

(This is also probably a good time to talk to a mason, as this would be a slow time of year for them, and you might be able to get a real bargain from someone interested in doing a nice warm inside job...)

I'm not in that business, but I'd guess that they would probably want to cut out most of the heatform box and fill the space in with masonry

Gooserider

 

[Creek-Chub]

Ahh, now we're cooking. Your mention of the vents pretty much seals it. I've got one vent on each side of the fireplace, about chest high. Heat does come out, although not enough to really matter.

I initially planned on having a mason do the work, but I honestly can't seem to be able to get anyone out to even look at it. One guy was a no-show, and everyone else never returned a phone call. I'll see what I can dig up on the "heatform" units and go from there. Thanks again for the help guys...

Nick

 

[Gooserider]

Got a message from a former member earlier this evening, apparently he is still reading the forums in some cases, and was concerned about your idea of modifying the chimney.

The advice was that you should definitely get some professional help. He says that often the damper and metal sidewalls are part of the supporting structure, and so can the elevated hearth. It is possible the hearth was poured, and built upon, then faced, so that it could also be supporting considerable weight. He says that without having a professional assessment, it is hard to say how the weight of the upper structures are being supported, and that modifcations could potentially be dangerous. It raised enough red flags for him to e-mail me on it. I told him I wasn't willing to relay messages onto the hearth for him, but I feel that "life safety" issues are something that merits an exception to that policy.

Gooserider

 

[Creek-Chub]

Got a message from a former member earlier this evening, apparently he is still reading the forums in some cases, and was concerned about your idea of modifying the chimney.

The advice was that you should definitely get some professional help. He says that often the damper and metal sidewalls are part of the supporting structure, and so can the elevated hearth. It is possible the hearth was poured, and built upon, then faced, so that it could also be supporting considerable weight. He says that without having a professional assessment, it is hard to say how the weight of the upper structures are being supported, and that modifcations could potentially be dangerous. It raised enough red flags for him to e-mail me on it. I told him I wasn't willing to relay messages onto the hearth for him, but I feel that "life safety" issues are something that merits an exception to that policy.

Gooserider

Thanks Goose. After reading up on the heatform units, I found that there were at least two different ways of installing them - one of which is the method you mention above, which would nix what I wanted to do for obvious reasons. I was finally able to get someone out to look at it, and should know more within a week or so. I appreciate the concern, and if possible, please relay my thanks to the former member that you mentioned. Thanks again...