First fire!

[infinitymike]

Got any pictures? Would love to see all the details.

 

[JP11]

The return temp is 120 on the dot. Taken right about a foot before entrance to boiler. I'm guessing that there's a spring in there for setting.

I do plan on insulating the pipe. It's in a conditioned space. I sure would prefer to use the more friendly foam kind. Thoughts?

 

[maple1]

Have you contacted the vendor to ensure that 120 return is the proper return temp for the boiler? I think everything I've read on here talks about 140 minimum. How are you measuring that temp? I have an IR gun that reads consistently high by about 20-30 degrees or so - my father has the exact same one and it's OK.

 

[JP11]

I put temp probes in. That one, the plumber forgot. He left me a spot for it. I bought a combo pressure/temp. Pressure reads about 2psi below output.. Makes sense.. it's literally 6" before the pump on boiler input.

I have temp probes on each side of wood boiler. Top of both tanks, and on both legs of injection loop. I wanted to KNOW what was going on.

Boiler dealer is the one that sold me the return protection. I'm trying to see what the issue is. It seems my pump starts at a much lower temp than many of you, and my return water temp is lower.

However.. I'm trying to realize why this is an issue. It's not as if I have a huge delta T in the boiler. When I started it.. The storage water was 53! So, boiler heated up the water inside itself to some number. I can't remember, but let's say it was 100. Then the circ came on. Water in the boiler just went around and around because the return water protection was fully closed.

As the boiler heated up.. it started letting a little bit of that hot water go out to storage, and mixed in just a little bit of that 53 degree water from storage. Return water did not waiver off 120 ever. Boiler kept slowly warming storage till the return water got to 120.. then it climbed above and heated the tanks up to 190 or so.

I think the biggest delta T I ever saw on in/out of boiler I saw was around 25. Most of the time it was 15 or so degrees. So, what's the issue?

I'm not discounting anyone's knowledge, but realize that I do not have the same boiler as you do. I can't understand WHY what is going on with my boiler is an issue. I have a few issues with my boiler... but I think that's more to do with me learning how to fire it, and wood seasoning. I never had big creosote, but I could see a thin black shiny film on upper firebox. A few of the pieces I threw in were for sure wet and heavy. Most of what I threw in was dead and plenty dry.

The learning curve is steep. Be patient with me. I'm gonna ask the dealer a few questions when I get a chance.

JP

 

[Fred61]

I put temp probes in. That one, the plumber forgot. He left me a spot for it. I bought a combo pressure/temp. Pressure reads about 2psi below output.. Makes sense.. it's literally 6" before the pump on boiler input.

I have temp probes on each side of wood boiler. Top of both tanks, and on both legs of injection loop. I wanted to KNOW what was going on.

Boiler dealer is the one that sold me the return protection. I'm trying to see what the issue is. It seems my pump starts at a much lower temp than many of you, and my return water temp is lower.

However.. I'm trying to realize why this is an issue. It's not as if I have a huge delta T in the boiler. When I started it.. The storage water was 53! So, boiler heated up the water inside itself to some number. I can't remember, but let's say it was 100. Then the circ came on. Water in the boiler just went around and around because the return water protection was fully closed.

As the boiler heated up.. it started letting a little bit of that hot water go out to storage, and mixed in just a little bit of that 53 degree water from storage. Return water did not waiver off 120 ever. Boiler kept slowly warming storage till the return water got to 120.. then it climbed above and heated the tanks up to 190 or so.

I think the biggest delta T I ever saw on in/out of boiler I saw was around 25. Most of the time it was 15 or so degrees. So, what's the issue?

I'm not discounting anyone's knowledge, but realize that I do not have the same boiler as you do. I can't understand WHY what is going on with my boiler is an issue. I have a few issues with my boiler... but I think that's more to do with me learning how to fire it, and wood seasoning. I never had big creosote, but I could see a thin black shiny film on upper firebox. A few of the pieces I threw in were for sure wet and heavy. Most of what I threw in was dead and plenty dry.

The learning curve is steep. Be patient with me. I'm gonna ask the dealer a few questions when I get a chance.

JP

Sorry, just trying to help!

 

[woodsmaster]

Here is a better explanation than I can give of why the water coming into the boiler needs to be 140 F
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...wqXfCw&usg=AFQjCNF-68qH6YwREsS5NJsv4AYTDzD6hQ
We are not down on your system, Just trying to help.

 

[maple1]

The 140 number I think applies pretty widely - it is not very boiler specific.

And I think it would also stand to reason that if the return temp should be above 140 (or even 120 as you are seeing), the circ pump start up should be a ways above that minimum return temp - like maybe 30 degrees or so above. I would defintely question on the return temp as well as circ start temp.

 

[heaterman]

I'll chime in with my $.02...

Those tanks need to be in the vertical position and lower in elevation than the air eliminating device in the system.

If you were dealing with old style "compression" type tanks that also function as the air capturing space in the system, they would be installed as you have them. Not so with a diaphragm type tank.

 

[maple1]

And I think those 'old style' tanks also have the inlet in the bottom when horizontal - mine does anyway.

 

[Fred61]

A sudden epiphany! I realize you're sick an tired of hearing from me and more than likely are not interested in the mystries that are boggling Maple1, Woodmaster, et al and me but since we don't have a life these things occupy our minds. I've been out this morning preparing my tools for blowing in another foot of cellulose which will be happening tomorrow morning and the picture of your return temperature regulator popped into my mind. My brain (what's left of it) told me that if that was installed 33 1/3 degrees out of rotation it could allow flow but not regulate return temperature. I think? Some of you smart guys please chime in especially if you think I'm all wet.

 

[JP11]

I'm at a loss. I certainly do want all the input. I'm just not sure at this point. The dealer said that the thermic valve is 140 degrees. I saw 120, rock solid, during the entire operation until return from storage water was above that value.

Bad valve? Improper install?

I've only had ONE cold start.. so I can't say with any certainty at what point the circulator starts. I'm learning as I go. I'm sure all of you remember that the learning curve is very steep at the start.

I installed many manual temp gauges for just this issue. I want to know what is going where. I just need more burn time to figure it out.

Fred.. it's not a danfoss brand. the ports do not line up like one. That one caused me several emails and phone calls to confirm correct orientation. I'm confident the pipes are connected as I was told. HOWEVER... it seems to me to maintain a perfect 120, not 140 as everyone says.

JP

 

[infinitymike]

I'm at a loss. I certainly do want all the input. I'm just not sure at this point. The dealer said that the thermic valve is 140 degrees. I saw 120, rock solid, during the entire operation until return from storage water was above that value.

Bad valve? Improper install?

I've only had ONE cold start.. so I can't say with any certainty at what point the circulator starts. I'm learning as I go. I'm sure all of you remember that the learning curve is very steep at the start.

I installed many manual temp gauges for just this issue. I want to know what is going where. I just need more burn time to figure it out.

Fred.. it's not a danfoss brand. the ports do not line up like one. That one caused me several emails and phone calls to confirm correct orientation. I'm confident the pipes are connected as I was told. HOWEVER... it seems to me to maintain a perfect 120, not 140 as everyone says.

JP

Maybe is ok and you have a bad temperature reading device

 

[maple1]

Or temp reading device is OK and you have a bad mixing valve.

50/50 on one of us being right?

Always a chance we could both be wrong too, I suppose...

 

[infinitymike]

heads or tails

 

[JP11]

heads or tails

I'm leaning towards bad valve. Otherwise.. there was NO temp rise going thru the boiler. It was routinely 15 to 20 going thru the boiler. Pressure difference was 2psi. As I said, one was literally 6" before pump input... so that makes sense.

 

[DaveBP]

If your thermometers are in wells, so that you can pull them out without taking a shower, it would be interesting to put their probe ends all into a pan of slowly boiling water and see what they each say the temperature of the water is.

 

[JP11]

That one is NOT in a well. and I DID take a shower putting it in. But.. I can't say that it's bad.. otherwise the boiler wasn't heating the water. I will have to drain that portion for an additional spriovent.

JP

 

[nrcrash]

Did you ever figure out what your problem was? bad mixing valve?

 

[JP11]

Did you ever figure out what your problem was? bad mixing valve?

Leaning towards bad thermometer at that point. Boiler doesn't creosote up.. and I really plan for a fire when tank bottom temp is 140 anyway.

may be the valve was a 120 instead of 140... but dealer says it isn't.

JP