First fire!
- Thread starter JP11
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
Tanks aren't insulated.. so I won't go too nuts with it right now. Just watching everything happen.. slowly.
watched pot and all.
Boiler water up to 100F or so. Waiting to see return water protection working, and circ come on.
Cool!
Circ came on. Water coming out the top shows 115 or so. Water going in 90.
Next stop.. return water protection.
Circ came on. Water coming out the top shows 115 or so. Water going in 90.
Next stop.. return water protection.
Retun water protection is working. About 115 or 120 it started letting heat out to tanks. Right now return water about 110, out of boiler is 120.
Flue temp is 150s and climbing. Had to set my min temp back. It thought I was out of wood.
Pretty happy with it so far. Draft fan isn't strong enough to keep all the smoke out. Need to learn to leave it alone and not peek! Who'm I kidding.
JP
Flue temp is 150s and climbing. Had to set my min temp back. It thought I was out of wood.
Pretty happy with it so far. Draft fan isn't strong enough to keep all the smoke out. Need to learn to leave it alone and not peek! Who'm I kidding.
JP
infinitymike
Minister of Fire
Congratulations. Take it slow. I don't know what kind of unit you have but I was told to light several small fires to condition the refractories.
Its like Christmas in April. Ho ho Ho
Its like Christmas in April. Ho ho Ho
Half a firebox only according to the dealer. 
It's starting to hum along nice now. Flue temps up into the low 200s. Boiler output is 143 and input rock solid at 120. it's sucking that 53 degree water out of the storage bottoms and mixing it well. Storage top up to about 62 now.
No leaks.
Think I'm done for the night. I'll let it go and see how it does on shutdown. I've got it set to shutdown at flue temp of 160.
Very happy with it.
JP
It's starting to hum along nice now. Flue temps up into the low 200s. Boiler output is 143 and input rock solid at 120. it's sucking that 53 degree water out of the storage bottoms and mixing it well. Storage top up to about 62 now.
No leaks.
Think I'm done for the night. I'll let it go and see how it does on shutdown. I've got it set to shutdown at flue temp of 160.
Very happy with it.
JP
Half a firebox only according to the dealer.
It's starting to hum along nice now. Flue temps up into the low 200s. Boiler output is 143 and input rock solid at 120. it's sucking that 53 degree water out of the storage bottoms and mixing it well. Storage top up to about 62 now.
No leaks.
Think I'm done for the night. I'll let it go and see how it does on shutdown. I've got it set to shutdown at flue temp of 160.
Very happy with it.
JP
Nice. I'm a little ways off from getting mine installed. Still waiting for the quote that didn't come today. What kind of storage tanks are you using and where did you get them?
Neil
I used scrounged 500s. Vertical.
Top of tanks showing 120. 2 feet down where probe is.. Vigas says it's 110. Relay opens at 130 to supply the home with heat. Got up at 330 to take a leak, burn had been completed. Threw in two pieces of cardboard and piled another third of woodbox full. Off she goes again. Now the unknown is if the wife complains about smoke. Maybe. I sure as heck didn't know what I was doing last night. Smoked just a bit getting it figured out.
JP
Stop opening the door and peeking! Whats up you pilots everything has to be up in the air!! (exp tanks)
Congrats JP. I have the same expansion tanks and I think I recall that they should be installed vertically.
Huff
Huff
pressure doesn't now which way is up.
Return temp still solid at 120. Boiler putting it out at 148 or so. Storage up to 132. It's supplying the loads of the house, occasional hot water and basement radiant.
Injection loop going out at 140, and coming back at 125 or so.
Oil boiler is cooled right off.
JP
And unfortunately neither did John-John Jr, apparently.
Are those Extrol tanks?
INSTALLATION & OPERATION INSTRUCTIONS
EXTROL® HYDRONIC DIAPHRAGM EXPANSION TANKS IN-LINE & SX SERIES:
have had to let a bit of water off as the pressure was up around 20.
Boiler putting out 170 plus water. 150 return. Storage is about 160.
Lambda has the fans down at near min 36% and draft open just 45%
stack temps about 250.
all seems well.
JP
Boiler putting out 170 plus water. 150 return. Storage is about 160.
Lambda has the fans down at near min 36% and draft open just 45%
stack temps about 250.
all seems well.
JP
I would assume that they mean don't "hang" them like you would hang a small tank. They are not meant to hang from their plumbing connections like a small tank.
JP
JP
I don't know nor do I assume what they don't mean. Here is what they do mean:
WARNING: Mount vertically only. Do not mount on dead-end pipe.
2. The EXTROL must not be placed overhead ... EXTROL should be relocated per Figure 1.
Figure 1.
3. Do not place the EXTROL on a dead-end pipe. Air can collect in the
EXTROL, causing internal corrosion and possible leakage.
To me, they don't seem to to a very good job of explaining what they are trying to achieve with the instructions.
Nevertheless, it seems to me that air collecting on the water side of the bladder is the key thing.
Therefore they should stand vertically and the piping to them should go down and downhill away from a point where air is bled from the system. This way only water ever enters and leaves the tanks.
So even though they say they should not be mounted overhead, it seems to me that as long as the tanks are mounted vertically and as long as the piping rises up to an air eliminator before coming back down to the bottom of the tanks, should be A-OK.
Attachments
Gasifier
Minister of Fire
maple1
Minister of Fire
The thing is, when the system gets hot, the expansion tank takes up water from storage as pressures rise.
The expansion tank also should be able to return that water to storage as temps & pressures fall - if they are horizontal that is less likely to happen. Very hard to get all the water out when it is below the inlet.
Got ya. I'm going to move them to the floor. Everything works.. quite happy with that. Seems like it would take a LOT of wood to get that last 10 degrees from storage to 195 from 185. Maybe it would be easier if tanks and pipe were insulated.
JP
I got to this "FIRST FIRE" party late so just skimmed the first of many posts so I may have missed something. It seems like what I was reading was a log of your first tank charging. There were entries of 130
output and return temp of 120. Does this mean that you do not have return temperature protection of at least 140 and does it mean that your pump launch temperature is 130 or lower?
I have my pump launch temperature set at 175 in order to maintain a more efficient burn and to reduce mixing in my storage tank. It would be impossible for me to get a 130 reading on the output.
output and return temp of 120. Does this mean that you do not have return temperature protection of at least 140 and does it mean that your pump launch temperature is 130 or lower?I have my pump launch temperature set at 175
in order to maintain a more efficient burn and to reduce mixing in my storage tank. It would be impossible for me to get a 130 reading on the output.
The draft fan on my biomass wont pull all the smoke out at a full burn either. I was allso wondering about the circulator turning on at such a low temp. Your circulator shouldn't turn on to at least 150 F minimum. I have mine set to come on at 172 I believe.
I had much better luck with the draft fan by waiting 30 seconds or so.... then crack the door and wait a few seconds. Way less smoke that way.
As for the circ.. henfruit could say when it trips on.. but I can say without a doubt that my return water was rock solid at 120 until the tank got above that. Rise in the boiler was anywhere from 20 to 25 degrees the whole time. I think my sensor in the tanks is a bit off (most likely because it's loose, and I didn't put any filler or insulation in the end yet. It seemed to lag behind the real temps (as measured at injection loop) by 15 to 20 degrees. I had my domestic coil pulling this morning, it was pulling in 160 water and sending back 140. Tanks went below 130 this morning. About 18 hours after my last burn. Not bad considering uninsulated tanks. Utility room was 86 degrees or so.
I need to
1. Move my expansion tanks to floor
2. Install data logger and 4 probes (haven't arrived yet)
3. Fix small leak on overheat circuit.
4. Get tank Spray foamed.
I haven't decided on how much, or what kind of insulation I will put on boiler to storage and storage to zones plumbing. Too much residual heat in utility room now. We'll see what it does when tanks are buttoned up.
JP
I went back and looked at your photos in your "Progress without me" post and recalled that you do indeed have return temperature protection although the device is foreign to me so I assume the 120 return temperature that you refer to is a reading that you are taking upstream from the Danfoss clone.
return temperature that you refer to is a reading that you are taking upstream from the Danfoss clone.
I'd make sure the water going into the boiler is above 140 or you could damage your boiler ! ! ! I've also
found that you can loose a lot of heat from a small amount of uninsulated pipe. I'd plan on insulating all of it If I were you.
found that you can loose a lot of heat from a small amount of uninsulated pipe. I'd plan on insulating all of it If I were you.
- Status
Similar threads
