Hey guys does anyone know of a correlation between stove top temp and firebox temp? For example if the stovetop temp is 700F is there anyway to calculate temps of the firebox at the baffle etc.? Or does anyone know what type of max temperatures these components (baffle, tubes, etc.) typically see?
Firebox Temp
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I know it takes about 1100 degrees for secondary combustion to take place in a tube stove so if you see that going on your at least up in that range.
Is there some theoretical maximum temperature that components could experience? Or a maximum routine temperature if you kept your stovetop temperatures at a reasonable level, at the baffle level directly above the fire? Anyone done any testing and measured the temps inside their stove? If we’re at 1100 for secondaries would it get much higher than that?
Hmm... maybe put a piece of metal in with the splits and hit that with the IR gun?
Measure it With the door open.
The color of the metal will also tell you the temps of the metal.
Look up color temps guides for blacksmiths.
Color temps tell when to weld, quench, forge, heat treat etc.
Look up color temps guides for blacksmiths.
Color temps tell when to weld, quench, forge, heat treat etc.
also the coals and flames will be at different temps so the heat varies in the firebox.
The coals are the hottest area. (Well sort of) A flame temp might be higher but a pile of coals with enough air blowing on it will be hot enough to turn metal red hot. Put that same piece of metal in the flames of a woodstove fire and you will have to wait forever to heat it to red, it probably will not get red at all.
Even the temp on top of the coals is different than inside the coal pile.
Same thing with metal on top of the coals will take much longer to heat than the same piece buried in red hot coals.
Sorry if i got off topic but if you understand how it works that can help get to your answer.
The coals are the hottest area. (Well sort of) A flame temp might be higher but a pile of coals with enough air blowing on it will be hot enough to turn metal red hot. Put that same piece of metal in the flames of a woodstove fire and you will have to wait forever to heat it to red, it probably will not get red at all.
Even the temp on top of the coals is different than inside the coal pile.
Same thing with metal on top of the coals will take much longer to heat than the same piece buried in red hot coals.
Sorry if i got off topic but if you understand how it works that can help get to your answer.
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JRHAWK9
Minister of Fire
After some poking around it seems that @Todd is correct...
It seems odd that at a flue temperature of only 350 and the door open I often will have secondary combustion occuring, although I suppose a lot of cool air is going up the flue at that point. I'm surprised that with that kind of temperature in the box that the stt isn't higher and glowing. I suppose the air recirculation inside the box keeps most of the heat in and by the time the exhaust goes around the baffles and heats the stove top the temperature is reduced significantly by the time it hits the flue probe thermometer.
Just now seeing some old threads saying that firebox temp is approximately 2X stove top temp - anyone know if that’s accurate and actually the case?
Thanks, was afraid of that. Any idea if 2X the stove top temp would lean towards an exaggeration in regards to firebox temp or might it be more of an underestimation? I am looking at a variety of non catalytic stoves in the 3 cubic foot range.
Nope.
Can't say. Depends too much on....etc.
Firebox temps don't matter for what you need. Heat input in the room versus what goes up the flue is all that matters
Can't say. Depends too much on....etc.
Firebox temps don't matter for what you need. Heat input in the room versus what goes up the flue is all that matters
My STT goes down when my blower is on.
There is certainly correlation as if the outside temp is up there, you know the inside is cooking. But there are a ton of variables. With enough playing I can get the inside roaring, yet keep the stove’s skin pretty cool for a while.
There is certainly correlation as if the outside temp is up there, you know the inside is cooking. But there are a ton of variables. With enough playing I can get the inside roaring, yet keep the stove’s skin pretty cool for a while.
Thanks, I’m curious regarding the various components inside the stoves, temperature ratings, and how much buffer there is when running the stove. Doesn’t seem to be much info on just how hot the firebox area typically gets (lots of stove top info however) that I’m finding so far, bit of a mystery it seems!
I've seen internal parts glowing (in particular the flame shield in front of the cat, nothing else).
That was 1600 or more I think. But it's heated from two sides, i.e. it can't really shed its heat (it'll radiate heat out but gets heat radiated back from both sides).
That was 1600 or more I think. But it's heated from two sides, i.e. it can't really shed its heat (it'll radiate heat out but gets heat radiated back from both sides).
What are you afraid of? You’re dancing around some specific thoughts. Throw them out there so we can directly answer them.
On stoves that have been abused, you can see warped panels and baffles. That indicated the metal was hot enough to deform by gravity. That’s not melting temps, around 2500F, but pretty hot.
On stoves that have been abused, you can see warped panels and baffles. That indicated the metal was hot enough to deform by gravity. That’s not melting temps, around 2500F, but pretty hot.
I am mostly trying to figure this all out as I’m not seeing manufacturer suggested temps to observe in many cases. As an example some quick research is showing that ceramic glass is rated up to just over 1400F and on stoves that use insulation batting in some cases it looks best to not expose that past about 1450F to 1650F or so depending on the type and on who you ask. Obviously I can get a stove, stove top thermometer, and an IR heat thermometer and get to testing (and running a stove at the appropriate temp) but it would not be the best situation to buy a stove and have piping installed only to find out that I can’t avoid these types of temperatures during normal use with typical suggested stove top temps.
I am very curious if I can keep these components under those temperatures. Not finding much data so far, I see one wood furnace was measured over 1500F here in this topic but my understanding is these run hotter than woodstoves.
I am very curious if I can keep these components under those temperatures. Not finding much data so far, I see one wood furnace was measured over 1500F here in this topic but my understanding is these run hotter than woodstoves.
I think you are over thinking it. Stove's and flue's are designed to work together at appropriate temperature's with appropriate draft. Excessive draft can be controlled with a damper. Stove manufacturers give a minimum flue height required and if you are much taller may need a damper.
The flue/chimney is the engine that drives the appliance. What flue height are you expecting, compare to the minimum flue height required for the appliances you are considering, install a damper if you are much higher than minimum to ensure control...
The flue/chimney is the engine that drives the appliance. What flue height are you expecting, compare to the minimum flue height required for the appliances you are considering, install a damper if you are much higher than minimum to ensure control...
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There is for sure some thinking going on, but to keep it simple I’m really just trying to determine if the glass and components at the top of the firebox get to 1400F+ if stove top temps are kept reasonable, perhaps 700F or lower. Not sure how accurate the old 2X rule is or what even the typical temperatures might get to during a brisk burn etc.
Stove manufacturer’s don't give you recommend internal temps because there is no way to measure them without expensive instrumentation. You just run by stove top and pipe temps you don't need any more info than that to run a stove. If you can't keep temps down then maybe a draft measurement.
Thanks, understood - most I’ve been looking at don’t really give a stove top or pipe temperature to go by either - perhaps just a note to make sure it doesn’t get so hot that the outside components start glowing red. That 1400F+ mark seems to be around the lower end of concern for some components so trying to determine how common 1400F+ would be for glass or at the top of the firebox if the stove and pipe were not glowing red outside, and / or stove top temps were kept around 700F (based on what I’m reading) or less as a start / example.
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