Fine tuning EKO

[Eric Johnson]

Blue/yellow/white flame indicates a clean burn. Orange indicates an under oxygenated (too rich/cooler) flame like an acetylene torch before the O2 is right for the mix. Wood gas should in some regard be looked at as natural or lp gas while burning. Before you can get the hottest flame in ng or lp you need the blue that turns to white/yellow at the tips. Blue then is primarily an indicator you are getting a good mix with enough oxygen. I have no storage and have been running my boiler to get the longest sustained burn times and have had my blower set way low to keep from getting smoke and burn out pockets in the primary chamber. Those problems were because my primary was too wide for the velocity of a wide open blower. I'm down to 9mm on primary. To get the blue flame though it is better to cut the blower way back so you can actually see the blue. Once adjusted you can reset the blower to a wider setting of your preference. It appears that you get a quicker transfer of heat with a wider blower opening but a shorter burn duration which is ideal to some with storage. A smaller blower opening means a slower heat transfer but a longer burn duration with less idling which is ideal for my situation and no storage.

Great observations and explanation, Cave. Do you check the flame color by opening the bottom door? I don't think there's any other way to do it.

 

[Duetech]

Tony H & Eric Johnson,

Yes opening the secondary will help cut back on the orange but you need to make sure your primary is down to 9-12mm before adjusting the secondary Tony. First however your blower should be cut way down to about 10%. The flame will still be big but rolling not torching. I wait for a call for heat from the controller then shut the boiler off and open the gassification bypass. It only takes a couple of minutes to make adjustments and the few degrees between idle and "heat" is a safety net. I make my adjustments while the boiler has a load and a fire with good coals in it but in the off position. Once the primary is set so you get a blue based flame and your panel is in place you can kick your blower back open and do the secondary adjustment.

Good guess Eric. It's the hard way but I don't have the Garm type eye in my secondary door. The results from the blower re-opening adjustments are really impressive and seem like you are supercharging the system each few degrees wider you go and the flame gets bigger and brighter.

 

[sdrobertson]

Update - first off, wow do these things put out some heat when they are getting close to burning right. I opened the primary's to 1/2 inch (a little over 12 mm) and I did a quick fix on my secondary tubes by placing metal tape over the tubes and then cutting away where the cover disks hit them. It ended up being almost 3/4 inch that my disks are to low. This allows me to actually close off the secondary air. Fan cover at 1 inch opening, primary's 1/2 inch and secondary between 4 and 5 turns(I forget as I was opening them up till I have white/blue flames). For a permanent fix to my secondary tube covers being to low, I'm going to add larger disks as then I don't have to try and move them and then fill the holes. There is enough room to add a inch to the diameter of the disks and then they will cover the tubes. Once I do that, then I can play with the primary's and tune it up some more. Seeing the stove burn the way it is now, Orlan must have had a machining problem when they drilled the holes for the secondary settings. Even with the secondary's all the way closed-they were uncovered by almost 3/4 inch.

 

[Dave T]

GLAD to hear more people are noticing this POSSIBLE FACTORY ERROR make it right (the best way possible for you) and enjoy the heat these things put out it is untouched by any OWB I've ever seen...Dave

 

[Eric Johnson]

It gets your attention. The first couple of times I fired mine up, I couldn't believe the wood-to-heat ratio compared to any of my old rigs.

 

[Dave T]

I bought my EKO used and I have no ties to the product, But here is my opinion after about 2 weeks of use, I HATE the body panels their pressed in type nuts goin panel to panel get stripped out and are over all hard to deal with, I found myself using selftapping 1/2 screws just above the original screw holes to refasten the panels..I am not thrilled with the water supply out of the top of the boiler and the chimney out of the back I feel that is backwards.. But I believe in results, and I've been pleased with the heat this thing puts out consistantly,and plan to purchase a fan and controller for my EKO just to have on hand because it is a simple design and there are only a few things short of catastrophic failure that can go wrong with this boiler..Overall happy with the boiler itself,I find myself going down into the basement to load it and saying HOLYSH!T there is still wood..Dave

 

[taxidermist]

I bought my EKO used and I have no ties to the product, But here is my opinion after about 2 weeks of use, I HATE the body panels their pressed in type nuts goin panel to panel get stripped out and are over all hard to deal with, I found myself using selftapping 1/2 screws just above the original screw holes to refasten the panels..I am not thrilled with the water supply out of the top of the boiler and the chimney out of the back I feel that is backwards.. But I believe in results, and I've been pleased with the heat this thing puts out consistantly,and plan to purchase a fan and controller for my EKO just to have on hand because it is a simple design and there are only a few things short of catastrophic failure that can go wrong with this boiler..Overall happy with the boiler itself,I find myself going down into the basement to load it and saying HOLYSH!T there is still wood..Dave

also get yourself a extra temp sensor as I fried mine in a over heat and I ordered it Monday morning and still have not seen it. My panels have clips and pins no screws thats on the top ones anyways. I also agree that the water pipe and the chimney is backwards the draft on these sucks well not really but ya know what I mean.

 

[Dave T]

Thanks for the tip Taxidermist (ring me up a temp sensor too) multi shipping may cost less!!Dave

 

[barnartist]

sroberson e-mailed me about this, I must have missed the thread. My secondary air adjusters was also 3/4 inch low. I noticed this before, but thought it was part of the design. Before I was never able to see and visible difference while adjusting the secondary air, so I pretty much left it alone after six turns back as Eric suggested.
This morning I ended up metal taping the secondary air pipes as Srob did, then cutting away some of the tape as a temporary fix. However when I fired it up I had a wide and very orange flame much different than before. I took this as a victory, but after readding this entire post, I think Taxi says blue is better-which I had more of before.
At least though, it looks like I will actually be able to make adjustments with the secondary air, so lets all try to clarify what the flame should look like ideally.
I also end up with about 5 gal bucket a week of ash. This seems like way too much. I am not smoking much usually white but yet visible, and have been reasonably happy with wood consumption.

 

[Dave T]

Blue is hotter and this shows a more efficient burn, in my opinion any setting that can be obtained with the secondary inlets hitting low and always staying open can also be obtained by opening them up a little more and having the potential to fully close them and go way past where a good burn should be.. CAVE2 is right if you see yellow and orange flame you need more secondary air to get the blue see pics you can see the progression as I dial EKO in, and another pic of my secondary inlet permanent fix..Dave

 

[barnartist]

Thanks Taco. The thing with me is, as I make the secondary adjustment, nothing changes. Usually my burn starts out big, then later on no visible flame comming out of the nozzils.
I will try and play with these settings when I start a burn tonight again, but if everyone can see significant changes to the flame while turning the secondary air screws, then maybe I need to look at the primary or other areas. I'm not really complaining much though about my burn, but always interested in any possible improvement.

 

[Duetech]

TacoSteelerMan,
Impressive pic's. I have one nozzle in my 40 but that's what I am seeing. The change is a boiler that uses less wood and produces more heat. Just out of curiosity how wide are the blower settings on your 60?

 

[Duetech]

Thanks Taco. The thing with me is, as I make the secondary adjustment, nothing changes. Usually my burn starts out big, then later on no visible flame comming out of the nozzils.
I will try and play with these settings when I start a burn tonight again, but if everyone can see significant changes to the flame while turning the secondary air screws, then maybe I need to look at the primary or other areas. I'm not really complaining much though about my burn, but always interested in any possible improvement.

If you're getting the orange it's because the primary is too wide open (too rich) and even with your secondaries wide open you might not get a blue-ed flame so it's not surprising you have not been seeing much change with your adjustments. Try 2mm a side (get radical) I'm at 9mm on the primary and still a little too orange for my taste and my secondary is 1 full turn beyond the manual suggestion. Try backing down your blower supply a little first so you can better see the adjustment you are making. Once you get the blue flame you can reset your blower tho where you want but these units are over powered where their blowers are concerned so a little works wonders.

 

[verne]

Thanks Taco. The thing with me is, as I make the secondary adjustment, nothing changes. Usually my burn starts out big, then later on no visible flame coming out of the nozzle's.
I will try and play with these settings when I start a burn tonight again, but if everyone can see significant changes to the flame while turning the secondary air screws, then maybe I need to look at the primary or other areas. I'm not really complaining much though about my burn, but always interested in any possible improvement.

I originally did not see a change when I adjusted my secondaries . I then closed down my primaries from 7/8" to 1/2". now I can dial in the flame . I was burning a full load in three hours but absolutely no coals. now i get a longer burn with a full bed of coals.as stated earlier if you close down the fan and turn out your secondaries the orange will change to yellow white and blue. then you use your fan to throttle it up. get the primaries set off the new manual and go from there . also adjust when you have a good bed of coals so you get consistent fuel through the nozzle. this post has been very helpfull .

 

[Dave T]

I am runnin at about 60% open, and on my controler I have fan adjustment I am still playing but I find full throdle works good for now, maybe with better wood I could turn the fans down some but till then I keep fiddeling any way possible to prolong my burn times today I was at work and managed an 11 hour burn keep in mind everything was already up to temp with a good bed of coals and I loaded it to the gills I have no storage and idle a lot 73 degree house all day IT IS GREAT..Dave

 

[Eric Johnson]

I think this thread probably deserves to be stickied.

 

[Dave T]

DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME FOLKS!!Well I had nothing better to do so I adjusted my secondary inlets all the way closed during good gasification, my inlets have been adjusted up to completely close off the inlet pipe(WARNING DO NOT CLOSE SECONDARY INLETS COMPLETELY, UNPREDICTABLE EXPLOSIONS OCCUR) the fire was snuffed out untill I opened the bottom door the oxygen hit it then.. Thats right POOF hot ashes all over LOL bad plan maybe the inlets contacting low is no mistake from a safety stand point but I am happy with the results. I'll say what were all thinkin DUMB ASS..Dave

 

[barnartist]

Thanks Taco and Vern. I have not adjusted my primaries for probably 1 full season or more, so I should have a look at that.
Taco, when I originally saw that those secondary adjusters were low I also thought that it would prevent an accedental full closure there, so I thought nothing further until this thread. SRobertson seems to like his results after adding a bigger flap at the end of the screws, but I can't quite say the same yet.
Tonight I fired up and waited till I got up to cruising temp and then did some fiddling. I still could not make any adjustments to the flame with the secondary air screws, nomatter where I set them-even all the way in and out. Changing the fan openings did all the color change for me as usual, so I can get a nice blue flame when fan openings are just shy of 1" open. Now the only way I can really see what result I am getting right away is by reading my stack temp, and it likes the 300-350 reading. I know some guys like to run hotter, but I just cant do it. The other way is to see how much water I heated during the burn, so I need to start documenting what goes on during each cycle.
It sure would be nice to be set up like Nofo, I think it would be a snap to tune these puppies. I think a temp probe in the bottom chamber would certainly be of some help. Anyone know what and where to find such a gauge/devise? This way too you could leave the bottom door shut while adjusting the air, and go by the reading on the gauge-without burning heating your hand or making ...taco dip.

 

[Duetech]

For those of you with 60's who want to adjust the seeming mfg error in your secondary adjuster placement AND for all who wonder about power failure and over temping your boiler. IF you can close your secondaries off in a power failure you may be able to prevent a run away boiler. The secondaries are the only viable source of O2 for the fire when power is off. They feed the bottom of the fire through the nozzles which is the source of the heat that keeps the fire going and if the secondaries get turned off your fire should die.

 

[Dave T]

CAVE2 you are absolutley correct, during my sketchy experiment I was burning full bore with a bed of coals and temps rising steady, I choked off the secondarys and with in 10 seconds the roar of the fire was gone so I let it sit for a minute then SLOWLY opened the bottom door about 1/4 to 1/2 open, maybe 5 seconds and POOF I quickly had the door shut and the trial was over, if I were to leave the door shut there is no question the fire would have fizzled to nothing..Dave

 

[barnartist]

That might be a nice option to have in emergency. So It sounds like we all agree that the screws should line up with the center of the secondary air pipes?
Since I have the older model, can anyone with the newer versions speak for there alignment?

 

[Kemer]

I checked mine and they are dead on except one tube sticks out further than the other

 

[leaddog]

I checked mine and they are dead on except one tube sticks out further than the other

make sure the tac hasn't broke and letting the tube work out. If is has you will need to tap it back into place and reweld the tac.
leaddog

 

[Duetech]

You guys type fast or I would not have posted this much here.
The fire will consume the O2 above it in the primary chamber but the fire will continue to feed from the secondaries. Perhaps the placing of the suggestion was inopportune. Sorry, this is not related to your experiment because you were under power and fed O2 to the primary chamber and created Puff the magic dragon so please don't mix the two. You are absolutely right in "DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME". The scenario I was referring to is a power outage emergency situation where you get a run a way boiler and especially for those that were wondering if they want to move/fix the placing of their secondary air supply dampers so they could get a complete air lock. The huffing and puffing may very well occur even without damping down the secondaries. My statement was to identify the remaining O2 supply and stop it. The lack of O2 will extinguish the fire but remember the refractory is still VERY HOT so the wood gasses will still be produced by infra red radiation until the refractory temps are brought down. You will still get a hot boiler but it should be for a shorter duration. It sounds odd but IF you can safely remove the wood from the gassification chamber and replace it with cold and preferably moist wood you will dissipate the heat in your refractory much quicker and perhaps avoid even a short term overheat.

For fine tuning, on my EKO40 I now have my primary air intakes down to 7mm and my secondaries open to 5 turns and am jetting nicely. The very blue/white/yellow flame fills/covers my U blocks extremely well and my blower opening is only about 1/8th of capacity (12.5% open). Any thing above that on the blower needlessly consumes wood and blows out the gassification by over jetting. From cold to hot the boiler is a little more temperamental until it hits 140*.

Now that is done I intend to work on an external mechanism to adjust primary air with out always taking the 12 screw front panel off so adjustments can be done on the fly with out shut down. The mod will require one hole about 5/16-3/8" and one hole about 1/8" in the front panel.
Question/s for those of you with other than 40 sized EKO's:
How far up from the inside face of the opening are the bolts that hold your primary air control slider plates?
How far from the sides is center of those bolts?
How far apart center to center are those bolts?
If there were a metal bar placed across those bolts would it interfere with the functioning of the back draft damper plate that is on your blower/s?
How far do your slider plates move when full closed to full open (not total movement but just fully open)?
How wide is your front cover panel?
And (LOL) do you have a spare arm and a leg and how much time can you devote to conjectural, pivotal contemplative R&D;and how often? Would you rather split would or wood?

 

[RDabate]

Just fired up my EKO last night. I'm still in the learning phase and trying to get it set correctly.


Is it safe to adjust the Primary and Secondary air opening as well as the blower opening when there is a burn happening?

I see in this thread people referencing how accurate the manual is for settings. I’m looking at page 18, there is a diagram. Is this what people are talking about? If so, I have no Idea what my Chimney draft is and I don’t have a meter to test the moisture in the wood. Should I get a meter and figure out what the Chimney draft is?

How does the front cover come off?