Equinox, or soapstone in general operating temps??

[mackvision]

I want to thank you all for your responses, and sharing the fantastic knowledge and experience, tips and tricks. I guess my overall point in starting this thread was that I am concerned of overfiring and damaging the box, and the otherside, underfiring and building creosote in the box, and stack. I can certainly say this Equinox is 1000x easier to operate and maintain temps than the xl dutchwest we had. Night and Day difference! However, some of you state that you have temps from 500-600 box temps, even out of the smaller cousin the Heritage!! NOw, the thermometers that I have are color shaded and 500 and up is in the red zone of being too hot. So, can the soapstone stoves withstand higher operating temps than their steel counterparts? Am I using the wrong type of thermometer to monitor the stove top temps and stack temps?? Thanks again to all, sorry I dont have time to zero in on some of the particular points that folks made. Busy with new job and school, along with family.

 

[shawneyboy]

You are doing what many people do, you are using a stack thermo for the stove top, you can use the numbers but NOT the zones on many thermos. That is designed for the stack temps, with single wall stack the 500 means the gasses are 1k in the center of the stack. That is what the zones are for. If you use it on the stove top, ignore the "zones" and go with the numbers. Hearthstone says to burn up to a stove top temp of 600, but not to go any higher. The soapstone will handle higher, the other internals will wear faster at extreme temps over the 600 mark.

I burn at 550 or so peak temps everyday. No worries at that temp what so ever.

 

[wellbuilt home]

Ive been experimenting to day .
Ive tried a few different things but still no big heat difference .
I did start blowing a fan on the stove to circulate the heat it seems to help .

I will try a N/S burn as you described tomorrow .
Question ?
How long a burn time do you get and what is the burning curve ( how long do you stay above 450o)

Packing the stove completely full will take alot of wood .
With the fan running my stove top is 200/225o I wonder if the fan will stop a over fire?
Im burning twice the wood with the EQ then with my EXL dutch west and we are sitting under blankets
5/8 ' from the stove watching TV .
The stove sits in the center of a room that's 36x 40 +- It is my only heat .
My DW didn't heat the place when it was below O but it would burn all day on a few splits and stay at 400o .
I hope i wont have to cut 4" off all my wood , I have alot of wood out there . John














0

 

[ruth140]

from the hearthstone heritege manual...
MONITORING STOVE TEMPERATURES
Monitor the stove temperatures with a stove thermometer
(available from your dealer) placed on the top center
stone of the stove. The thermometer could read as high as
500°F(260°C) on High Burn and 200-300°F(93-149°C)
on low burn. Maintaining temperatures in excess of
600°F(316°C) will cause the stones to crack and other
damage to the stove.

you're doing perfect...600 would be too hot

 

[FireWalker]

from the hearthstone heritege manual...
MONITORING STOVE TEMPERATURES
Monitor the stove temperatures with a stove thermometer
(available from your dealer) placed on the top center
stone of the stove. The thermometer could read as high as
500°F(260°C) on High Burn and 200-300°F(93-149°C)
on low burn. Maintaining temperatures in excess of
600°F(316°C) will cause the stones to crack and other
damage to the stove.

you're doing perfect...600 would be too hot

That information regarding temps and settings is from the Heritege manual.......the Equinox manual has no such numbers (temps) only low, medium and high. This lack of information recently prompted me to contact my dealer and ask him the following. I'm seeing 600 plus on full loads with air supply shut should I be worried? My dealer called the folks at Hearthstone and got me some numbers to go with the burn settings in the manual. They also suggested using a pipe damper! To make a long story short temps of 600 at the center stone are the high end of the burn zone, no worries or cracked stones. My issue with what they told me is I'm getting those temps on low air settings and the tech at HS is saying I should see them at 1/2 to full open settings.

Anyway, knowing that if once in awhile I get the stove real hot and not melt anything puts me much more at ease.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

from the hearthstone heritege manual...
MONITORING STOVE TEMPERATURES
Monitor the stove temperatures with a stove thermometer
(available from your dealer) placed on the top center
stone of the stove. The thermometer could read as high as
500°F(260°C) on High Burn and 200-300°F(93-149°C)
on low burn. Maintaining temperatures in excess of
600°F(316°C) will cause the stones to crack and other
damage to the stove.

you're doing perfect...600 would be too hot

That information regarding temps and settings is from the Heritege manual.......the Equinox manual has no such numbers (temps) only low, medium and high. This lack of information recently prompted me to contact my dealer and ask him the following. I'm seeing 600 plus on full loads with air supply shut should I be worried? My dealer called the folks at Hearthstone and got me some numbers to go with the burn settings in the manual. They also suggested using a pipe damper! To make a long story short temps of 600 at the center stone are the high end of the burn zone, no worries or cracked stones. My issue with what they told me is I'm getting those temps on low air settings and the tech at HS is saying I should see them at 1/2 to full open settings.

Anyway, knowing that if once in awhile I get the stove real hot and not melt anything puts me much more at ease.

Interesting... That is verbatim as per the Homestead manual, and a quick look at the Equinox manual shows no such statement..

I think they need to get whoever writes their manuals to all get on the same page... Since I am mostly burning cherry cut to 16", I don't have much over fire worry..

 

[FireWalker]

Ive been experimenting to day .
Ive tried a few different things but still no big heat difference .
I did start blowing a fan on the stove to circulate the heat it seems to help .

I will try a N/S burn as you described tomorrow .
Question ?
How long a burn time do you get and what is the burning curve ( how long do you stay above 450o)

Packing the stove completely full will take alot of wood .
With the fan running my stove top is 200/225o I wonder if the fan will stop a over fire?
Im burning twice the wood with the EQ then with my EXL dutch west and we are sitting under blankets
5/8 ' from the stove watching TV .
The stove sits in the center of a room that's 36x 40 +- It is my only heat .
My DW didn't heat the place when it was below O but it would burn all day on a few splits and stay at 400o .
I hope i wont have to cut 4" off all my wood , I have alot of wood out there . John0

I did some experimenting last night on your behalf! It seems 450 is the hotest I can get my stove with EW all oak burns.

My burn times are based on 3 per day, morning from 6:30 to 5:30 in the evenings, sometimes the wife throws on a stick or two. Then another heat-up for the evening and a full load for overnight. Wood measurement for me is in armloads, again 3 per day, probably 20 splits. I load it, get it hot and then turn it down. I would guess I am doing about the same as with the old DW xtra large cat.

Filling the stove does take a lot of wood but, that how you get the rocks hot, a prolonged secondary burn is just the ticket. If you try this by adding splits 3 or 4 at a time you get coal build-up. My experience with NS hot burns with this stove gives us 2 hours of real hot running above 500 and then another 3 hours of 350 and 2 more to cool down to around 200 Then the coal bed is still big enough to spread across the whole stove floor. Don't get me wrong here, the only time I fill this stove full is during cold snaps like monday and yes I may need an extra armload for days like that.

I know that stove of yours can heat your space, once you get it cranking you will be tossing the blankets and moving the chairs back. I can't say this enough, the difference between 450 and 550 is huge! I'm heating a space smaller than yours (36' x 20) but I have a ton of south facing glass, we are typically comfortable at around 72-75 and that seems relatively easy to maintain. The far reaching spaces seem to hover in the low 60's which we can tolorate.

I stopped taking and cutting longer splits a long time ago, 18" works for me giving me the flexibility I need to make any sort of fire I need for the temps I'm dealing with. I only make NS fires I'de say 10% of the time, cold nights only.

No need to cut all your wood, just a few armloads for the experiment.

 

[FireWalker]

from the hearthstone heritege manual...
MONITORING STOVE TEMPERATURES
Monitor the stove temperatures with a stove thermometer
(available from your dealer) placed on the top center
stone of the stove. The thermometer could read as high as
500°F(260°C) on High Burn and 200-300°F(93-149°C)
on low burn. Maintaining temperatures in excess of
600°F(316°C) will cause the stones to crack and other
damage to the stove.

you're doing perfect...600 would be too hot

That information regarding temps and settings is from the Heritege manual.......the Equinox manual has no such numbers (temps) only low, medium and high. This lack of information recently prompted me to contact my dealer and ask him the following. I'm seeing 600 plus on full loads with air supply shut should I be worried? My dealer called the folks at Hearthstone and got me some numbers to go with the burn settings in the manual. They also suggested using a pipe damper! To make a long story short temps of 600 at the center stone are the high end of the burn zone, no worries or cracked stones. My issue with what they told me is I'm getting those temps on low air settings and the tech at HS is saying I should see them at 1/2 to full open settings.

Anyway, knowing that if once in awhile I get the stove real hot and not melt anything puts me much more at ease.

Interesting... That is verbatim as per the Homestead manual, and a quick look at the Equinox manual shows no such statement..

I think they need to get whoever writes their manuals to all get on the same page... Since I am mostly burning cherry cut to 16", I don't have much over fire worry..

I'm thinking they didn't add the temps to the Equinox manual for a reason........the manual expresses real importance in getting the stove good hot at least once a day. Maybe by posting numbers in the manual one might be reluctant to aproach peak temps and thus not get their stoves hot enough to keep creasote in check. Just a theory.

No reason 16" cherry won't overfire that stove.....fill it full and let it run with the air open to long and things will get awful hot in a big hurry.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

from the hearthstone heritege manual...
MONITORING STOVE TEMPERATURES
Monitor the stove temperatures with a stove thermometer
(available from your dealer) placed on the top center
stone of the stove. The thermometer could read as high as
500°F(260°C) on High Burn and 200-300°F(93-149°C)
on low burn. Maintaining temperatures in excess of
600°F(316°C) will cause the stones to crack and other
damage to the stove.

you're doing perfect...600 would be too hot

That information regarding temps and settings is from the Heritege manual.......the Equinox manual has no such numbers (temps) only low, medium and high. This lack of information recently prompted me to contact my dealer and ask him the following. I'm seeing 600 plus on full loads with air supply shut should I be worried? My dealer called the folks at Hearthstone and got me some numbers to go with the burn settings in the manual. They also suggested using a pipe damper! To make a long story short temps of 600 at the center stone are the high end of the burn zone, no worries or cracked stones. My issue with what they told me is I'm getting those temps on low air settings and the tech at HS is saying I should see them at 1/2 to full open settings.

Anyway, knowing that if once in awhile I get the stove real hot and not melt anything puts me much more at ease.

Interesting... That is verbatim as per the Homestead manual, and a quick look at the Equinox manual shows no such statement..

I think they need to get whoever writes their manuals to all get on the same page... Since I am mostly burning cherry cut to 16", I don't have much over fire worry..

I'm thinking they didn't add the temps to the Equinox manual for a reason........the manual expresses real importance in getting the stove good hot at least once a day. Maybe by posting numbers in the manual one might be reluctant to aproach peak temps and thus not get their stoves hot enough to keep creasote in check. Just a theory.

No reason 16" cherry won't overfire that stove.....fill it full and let it run with the air open to long and things will get awful hot in a big hurry.

My manual includes the "run it hot" everyday instruction too..

Oh, not saying I COULDN'T overfire, just that I would have to try to do it. with 16" wood, at best I can only fill the fire box 3/4 full... I guess I should also point out my cherry is only one year split stacked. While fine in the MC I bet it will be better next year..

 

[wellbuilt home]

FW Im having a snow day so im experimenting some more . I just stuffed the EQ full of wood NS some oak some maple black Burch cherry and a few popular .
I have been burning for 11/2hs .
I wanted 1/2 hr and then closed the air down 1/4 every 15 minutes the stove went out no flame no secondary burn .
I opened the air and flue for 15 minutes more then closed it 1/2 and 1/2 .
now at 2 hrs i have secondary burn but no flame coming from the holes in the tubes and no flame on the bottom that i can see .
stove top is 300o . dog is getting hot under the stove .
Its 30o out side now .

 

[FireWalker]

Wow, thats suprising it's not taking off after 1 1/2 hours, mine would be cranking by now.

Tell me about your pipe damper......is it a cast iron piece with 2 silver dollar holes in it?

Maybe for this test you should open the pipe damper and leave the air wide open, this afterall is what the Equinox manual recommends you do daily to keep things creasote free. Remember the goal here is to proove you can make your stove get up over 500 whenever you want so let her rip. If this experiment goes as planned, you should have the ability to make a much hotter fire than you normally have. So far it doesn't sound like your there yet. If it were me, and it's not.........I would be pushing it harder with more primary air. Possibly, my draft pulls a bit more than yours which allows me lower air settings and still burns like crazy.

Any sizziling from your wood?

 

[shawneyboy]

With those temps is there a reason you are using the flue damper. That may be part of the problem. Just a suggestion, leave the flue open only adjust the air intake.

 

[wellbuilt home]

FW Im having a snow day so im experimenting some more . I just stuffed the EQ full of wood NS some oak some maple black Burch cherry and a few popular .
I have been burning for 11/2hs .
I wanted 1/2 hr and then closed the air down 1/4 every 15 minutes the stove went out no flame no secondary burn .
I opened the air and flue for 15 minutes more then closed it 1/2 and 1/2 .
now at 2 hrs i have secondary burn but no flame coming from the holes in the tubes and no flame on the bottom that i can see .
stove top is 300o . dog is getting hot under the stove .
Its 30o out side now .

Well nothing out standing to report .
My top temp was 350 the burn cycle started at about 1130 am and is about over now.
51/2 hrs on low with the stove packed with wood isn't very economical .
I never got to the point where the flames where coming out of the burn tubs , I did have alot of flame hovering over the wood with little flame under the wood .
The outside temp went up to 33o today the temp in the house went from 68 to 71 and now ive been at 70 for an hour.
Even if i run the stove wide open full of wood I dont get to much past 400o , and i burn up a full stove of wood in 2 hour.
Ive if my Rutland thermometer was broken 3o increase in temperature isn't much on a 33o day .
Im going to try again with more air , I have a bunch more wood cut down to fit NS.
My damper is cast iron just as you described.
The wood was hand picked best shape exact length all good hard wood. bone dry from under my porch .
51/2 hours to your 8 hours is a big difference in burn time . John

 

[wellbuilt home]

Well nothing out standing to report .
My top temp was 350 the burn cycle started at about 1130 am and is about over now.
51/2 hrs on low with the stove packed with wood isn't very economical .
I never got to the point where the flames where coming out of the burn tubs , I did have alot of flame hovering over the wood with little flame under the wood .
The outside temp went up to 33o today the temp in the house went from 68 to 71 and now ive been at 70 for an hour.
Even if i run the stove wide open full of wood I dont get to much past 400o , and i burn up a full stove of wood in 2 hour.
Ive if my Rutland thermometer was broken 3o increase in temperature isn't much on a 33o day .
Im going to try again with more air , I have a bunch more wood cut down to fit NS.
My damper is cast iron just as you described.
The wood was hand picked best shape exact length all good hard wood. bone dry from under my porch .
51/2 hours to your 8 hours is a big difference in burn time . John

 

[shawneyboy]

Well nothing out standing to report .
My top temp was 350 the burn cycle started at about 1130 am and is about over now.
51/2 hrs on low with the stove packed with wood isn't very economical .
I never got to the point where the flames where coming out of the burn tubs , I did have alot of flame hovering over the wood with little flame under the wood .
The outside temp went up to 33o today the temp in the house went from 68 to 71 and now ive been at 70 for an hour.
Even if i run the stove wide open full of wood I dont get to much past 400o , and i burn up a full stove of wood in 2 hour.
Ive if my Rutland thermometer was broken 3o increase in temperature isn't much on a 33o day .
Im going to try again with more air , I have a bunch more wood cut down to fit NS.
My damper is cast iron just as you described.
The wood was hand picked best shape exact length all good hard wood. bone dry from under my porch .
51/2 hours to your 8 hours is a big difference in burn time . John

Is this with your flue damper wide open? If so I am really surprised. I have a flue damper but it is never used.

With my Mansfield (the Equinox little cousin) Full load I reach 550 easily with secondaries going for 2 1/2 to 3 hours. Stove top temp max out at 550 - 575. Maintain that temp for 4 hours, then slowly cools down. Heats 1800 square foot raised ranch with stove in lower (insulated) level.

Start with intake wide open, char wood, start shutting down air in 2 or 3 stages about 20 -30 mins down to half, secondaries start up, 10-15 mins later at 1/4 (secondaries flaming big time) 10-15 mins later air shut down completely. stove top temp continues climbing will reach and maintain 550 or so. Reload 8 hours later, lather, rinse, repeat.

Shawn

 

[blacktop37]

Well nothing out standing to report .
My top temp was 350 the burn cycle started at about 1130 am and is about over now.
51/2 hrs on low with the stove packed with wood isn't very economical .
I never got to the point where the flames where coming out of the burn tubs , I did have alot of flame hovering over the wood with little flame under the wood .
The outside temp went up to 33o today the temp in the house went from 68 to 71 and now ive been at 70 for an hour.
Even if i run the stove wide open full of wood I dont get to much past 400o , and i burn up a full stove of wood in 2 hour.
Ive if my Rutland thermometer was broken 3o increase in temperature isn't much on a 33o day .
Im going to try again with more air , I have a bunch more wood cut down to fit NS.
My damper is cast iron just as you described.
The wood was hand picked best shape exact length all good hard wood. bone dry from under my porch .
51/2 hours to your 8 hours is a big difference in burn time . John

I have an EQ and I feel it is either your draft or your wood. If secondaries will not come on strong it is somthing you are not seeing. It is not the design of the stove. (imo) I dont see how a stove can perform any better than the big EQ. I have an oak and 28' 8" insulated stainless flue. I burn hedge and in 3 years my chimney has stayed clean. Max temp has been 450 cruise at 375 to 400 I never have more than 3 big splits in at once, 9 splits per day (15 if temp in teens) after small wood gets things going. 3000 ft house well insulated most rooms stay over 70 Keep looking and good luck! o, 1 more thing, I always burn e&w i just heap coals up to 1 side on reload so air from zipper goes under logs. I cant turn off primary air completly until almost end of burn

 

[FireWalker]

John,

I was sure you were going to get some results, works every time for me.

Well maybe something.......the coal bed, mine is a good 1"-2" thick across the whole stove floor. Did you start with a lot of coals?

Seeing as the intent of having a pipe damper is to slow the draft when the fire is really hot, maybe try keeping yours open for a while. There is a little less than half of the btu rating for your stove yet to be unleashed, keep trying!

When you rake coals up in front of the air supply (the 3 holes in the middle of the lip) outlet and open the air, do the coals get blasted and glow like hot magma? Are the outlet holes blocked with ash? Is there a big change during a good fire when you go from air supply shut to full open? Check operation of air supply linkage (other Eq. owners have problems here) and check for air supply opening blockage. Got a vermin screen on your chimney cap, could it be gooped up?

My stove is like a blast furnace on full air when trying to burn up a large coal bed, but will very definitely shut down when you snap the air control off.

 

[wellbuilt home]

black top ,
Im glade the EQ is working out so good for you .
but mine is sucking in this cold weather.
I see 300 /350 most of the time .
Its 30o out side the stove is 325+- and the temp in the house is 70o ( perfect )
The problem is when its 20 out side the stove is 325+- inside its 65 o
I can live with this but when its 10o im 60 inside and it could take 8 hours to get back up to 70 .
I cant do any thing with 3 splits in my stove .

FW , Every thing seem all good .
I started with some ash on the bottom of the stove , with a good pile of coals heaped up NS 6" wide 5" tall buy the depth of the stove .
I cant see any thing wrong with the unit .
My roof is 17/ 12 pitch there is no way to see the cap but thru a rifle scope it looks clear and i cleaned the chimney and the flue was clean.
If i open up the air i get the blow torch/ magma look im just missing the heat .
The best heat i can get is with !/2 air damper open flue closed ive seen 450 but only for a short time .
If its warm tomorrow i want to take the stove apart again and check it out .
I never see flame coming from my secondary tubs . Could there be a problem there ?
I just burnt a full load of wood E/W with the damper open and air 1/2 closed it looks hot but still 325 and the stove is black in 4 hrs .
Im going to need a second stove for my addition .
I mite go back to the DW maybe switch to coal .
I hate buying fuel . John

 

[ruth140]

i am not sure why you even have a damper in your pipe.
most....again i say most stoves do not require one unless you have this crazy strong draft that you are unable to control with only your stoves adjustments.
you are saying that you are running your stove at 1/2 air. well...that is a medium setting. you will get medium heat. 350-450.( and with thte pipe damper CLOSED you are runing even slower)
and there is a good chance this is NOT hot enough to have your secondary burn kick in.
open the pipe damper fully. then open your air control on your stove fully.
burn the stove like this for 45 mins. ( just to make a point)
this stove should now begin to get pretty hot....your secondary burn should kick in.
once it is roaring hot and the secondary burn kicks in....then close you stove air control to about 1/2( this should bring it to a medium heat setting )
leave the pipe damper fully opened. ( i would not even have one.)
see if this works better for you.

 

[blacktop37]

John, you now know where the problem is. It has to be the lack of secondaries. That is where the big heat comes from. Email Jim at hearthstone. He has been very good at communicating with me email only, as I was learning my stove. I would even call the dealer before I would give up. The secondaries on this stove is a sight to behold. The first time my wife saw them she called me in a panic, she thot the stove was getting ready to explode.

 

[ruth140]

if you are closing the pipe with a damper you are restricting the draft and not allowing the secondary burn to ignite.
open the damper
air tight stoves are controlled only by the air control on the stove.

 

[blacktop37]

I dont have a damper in my EQ. I have never had a problem

 

[ruth140]

sorry blacktop i was not addressing you, i was addressing wellbuilt

 

[wellbuilt home]

Hi ruth , I under stand the concept of more and less air and how a damper works .
The problem is with out the damper the stove has burnt out of control 2 or 3 hour into the burn cycle and this is unacceptable to me .
The next problem is i cant duplicate the hi burn at will .
My chimney is very high 28+ feet .
With no damper i had a hard time reaching 350o with any amount of wood or air flow .
Ive been burning for a long time and never use more then 4 cord of wood .
With out a damper im looking at 8+ cord a season .
Dont get me wrong i like the stove its very pretty and the fire is very nice to watch .
On a 30o day it puts out enough heat with out force feeding the stove .
If i had the convenience of turning on the gas heat it would be fine but its been so lone since i used the heat i dont think it works.
I wanted to add a TV room this year but i dont have enough heat with the eq.
I think the btu rating and sq ft estimate is misleading . John

 

[YankeeFarmer]

Like many of the others, I think your problem is the damper in your flue. I also understand your concern about the stove burning out of control. I'd suggest you initiate a burn with the flue damper open when you can watch the fire. When it gets good and hot, and you feel you can't control it with the air damper, that's the time to close the flue damper. (I'm assuming you installed the flue damper after the scary fire?).

Ultimately you are looking for a flue damper position that gives you a draft the equivalent of a shorter chimney. One way to do this efficiently would be to tap into your stove pipe and use a manometer to measure the draft, and adjust the damper to what Hearthstone recommends for draft.