Englander Stoves auger motors

[cold-n-michigan]

I have been through 2 motors in 4 years. A couple incidents with a piece of shale from the bed of my truck and a small number 6 nail then this year a piece of steel from the pellet mill. It doesn't take much to jam one of those motors. Was your auger jammed when you found it? Thats what seems to nearly always cause the gears to fail. As for the quality they are all the same right. None make a motor themselves, rather they all are off the shelf from whatever vendor and the ones have seen are all top quality like Dayton or Fasco. Find the cross reference for the motor and you can get them fairly cheap from Grainger or Mcmaster Carr. Someone has the correct model for those motors. It is a good idea to have one on hand. I have 4 for mine but I got them for a deal of about 35 apiece. They make a gazillion types and sizes of those gearmotors so make sure you get the right model as they nearly all look exactly alike. The motor isn't what fails its always the gear box. They bust the teeth on one or 2 of the gears. Whatever you do save the old ones for parts as its not hard to piece a good one together from a couple broken ones, just switch out the bad gears. Too bad, they broke on you so soon though. I would be wanting something from the manufacturer if I was in your shoes.

No the auger wasn't jammed. I had just cleaned it to make certain there wasn't any carbon build up. Everything looked fine. We were extra careful because we didn't want to burn up another motor! We haven't opened up the gear box but will.

 

[Mr Whitfield]

After reading all the info about these stoves, One person said it was a bad design, and a cheap stove sounds like Andy 35 was right.

 

[cold-n-michigan]

I have been through 2 motors in 4 years. A couple incidents with a piece of shale from the bed of my truck and a small number 6 nail then this year a piece of steel from the pellet mill. It doesn't take much to jam one of those motors. Was your auger jammed when you found it? Thats what seems to nearly always cause the gears to fail. As for the quality they are all the same right. None make a motor themselves, rather they all are off the shelf from whatever vendor and the ones have seen are all top quality like Dayton or Fasco. Find the cross reference for the motor and you can get them fairly cheap from Grainger or Mcmaster Carr. Someone has the correct model for those motors. It is a good idea to have one on hand. I have 4 for mine but I got them for a deal of about 35 apiece. They make a gazillion types and sizes of those gearmotors so make sure you get the right model as they nearly all look exactly alike. The motor isn't what fails its always the gear box. They bust the teeth on one or 2 of the gears. Whatever you do save the old ones for parts as its not hard to piece a good one together from a couple broken ones, just switch out the bad gears. Too bad, they broke on you so soon though. I would be wanting something from the manufacturer if I was in your shoes.

No the auger wasn't jammed. I had just cleaned it to make certain there wasn't any carbon build up. Everything looked fine. We were extra careful because we didn't want to burn up another motor! We haven't opened up the gear box but will.

 

[cold-n-michigan]

We opened up the gear box and it looked fine. Inspected each gear. After having the gear box opened it doesn't look cheap to me at all.

 

[Mr Whitfield]

I would like to add I have a Whitfield advantage 1994, with the original Auger motor and both fans motors, I don't buy that these auger motors are bad, just sounds like a bad design on the stove manufacturer part.. With 2 augers, I guess you get to sell 2 replacement motors per stove, not bad if your sell replacement parts...

 

[GVA]

After reading all the info about these stoves, One person said it was a bad design, and a cheap stove sounds like Andy 35 was right.

I hope you're not reading my post as saying it is a bad design, because i'm not, I don't know anything about the Englanders, But i do know power transmission and all pellet stoves feed systems seem to be less than ideally designed....
IMHO i think direct drive is better than chain drive and I think the englanders are DD so kudos to them..

 

[webbie]

Might be a stupid question (and not directed at Englander or any single maker), but why don't these things have a clutch of some sort? Or something that would be replaceable which would go before the motor did?

 

[GVA]

Might be a stupid question (and not directed at Englander or any single maker), but why don't these things have a clutch of some sort? Or something that would be replaceable which would go before the motor did?

Sounds like a good idea....
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/3441/

 

[drizler]

Just for perspective I noticed a service bulletin pertaining to mine ( Countryside Magnum) which may pertain to others. It is to install a doubler on the plate where the motor mates up to the back of the pellet tube. It seems some of the Countrysides like to get twisted out of alignment with heavy use. The extra plate keeps things in line. I would imagine if you do suffer such a condition that you could make one up from a piece of flat steel in short order. It could be that cutting heavy long pellets might be twisting your auger , motor and mount a bit out of line. Not really likely but food for thought.

 

[raybonz]

Has anybody else had problems with Englander Stoves auger motors. I have a 25 PDVC that is 13 months old. I ran the stove from 12/06 to 3/06 and agin from 11/06 until last week when the lower auger died, 3 weeks out of warranty. I ordered a replacement and it arrived today, along with directions to align the auger in the tube. When I finished the install and started the stove I noticed that the auger was quiet, prior to ME aligning it it made some noise that I was told was "normal" by tech support and what I have read online.
Has anybody had a motor fail with such little use?
I called tech support and they insist that they have no responsibility due to the fact that the stove is out of warranty. I only realized that there was a problem when I replaced the motor.

As I see it they sell a sub-standard product and back it up with sub-standard customer service

Could you post a pic of your auger setup so I can see what you're dealing with?

Ray

 

[packerfan]

My auger motor went out on me last night. arghhhh!! It lasted only since October, and I'm pretty miffed about it to say the least. I hope the next one lasts for more than 7 or so months.

 

[rap69ri]

My brother-in-law and myself each purchased the 25-PDVC in the fall. He had his lower auger motor die within a month or two of the purchase, he called ESW and had a new one in 3 days. I put it in for him and it's been good since. We did notice it was making a noise like it was struggling before it completely died.

My lower auger was making a similar sound, but before it died I took it off and found the auger wasn't moving freely. I adjusted it and the noise went away. The auger has been cooking ever since.

 

[raybonz]

My auger motor went out on me last night. arghhhh!! It lasted only since October, and I'm pretty miffed about it to say the least. I hope the next one lasts for more than 7 or so months.

Hello Dan,
Did a jam cause your auger motor to fail? If so you can add a motor overload in series with the motor power that would trip in the event of a prolonged overload condition.. The overload would trip and shut off power to the motor allowing you to correct the jam condition and then manually reset the overload.. If you wanted to get fancy you could use an auxilliary to turn on a light or buzzer to alert you to an overload trip..

Ray

 

[packerfan]

My auger motor went out on me last night. arghhhh!! It lasted only since October, and I'm pretty miffed about it to say the least. I hope the next one lasts for more than 7 or so months.

Hello Dan,
Did a jam cause your auger motor to fail? If so you can add a motor overload in series with the motor power that would trip in the event of a prolonged overload condition.. The overload would trip and shut off power to the motor allowing you to correct the jam condition and then manually reset the overload.. If you wanted to get fancy you could use an auxilliary to turn on a light or buzzer to alert you to an overload trip..

Ray

I don't think it was a jam, due to the fact that I was able to easily turn the auger by hand after disconnecting the motor.

 

[drizler]

My auger motor went out on me last night. arghhhh!! It lasted only since October, and I'm pretty miffed about it to say the least. I hope the next one lasts for more than 7 or so months.

Hello Dan,
Did a jam cause your auger motor to fail? If so you can add a motor overload in series with the motor power that would trip in the event of a prolonged overload condition.. The overload would trip and shut off power to the motor allowing you to correct the jam condition and then manually reset the overload.. If you wanted to get fancy you could use an auxilliary to turn on a light or buzzer to alert you to an overload trip..

Ray

I don't think it was a jam, due to the fact that I was able to easily turn the auger by hand after disconnecting the motor.

If you had a jam you would sure not be able to turn that auger even with heavy plyers. Say, just how do you rig an overload on that motor. How about some part numbers ect from grainger ect. I have my Countryside tricked out about every way there is but that and that could be a MUST HAVE item when burning corn. I have trashed 2 motors and jammed 3 or 4 times and its always caused by a stone or piece of nail or steel. That would be a great addition for anyone who has one of these stoves.

 

[raybonz]

My auger motor went out on me last night. arghhhh!! It lasted only since October, and I'm pretty miffed about it to say the least. I hope the next one lasts for more than 7 or so months.

Hello Dan,
Did a jam cause your auger motor to fail? If so you can add a motor overload in series with the motor power that would trip in the event of a prolonged overload condition.. The overload would trip and shut off power to the motor allowing you to correct the jam condition and then manually reset the overload.. If you wanted to get fancy you could use an auxilliary to turn on a light or buzzer to alert you to an overload trip..

Ray

I don't think it was a jam, due to the fact that I was able to easily turn the auger by hand after disconnecting the motor.

If you had a jam you would sure not be able to turn that auger even with heavy plyers. Say, just how do you rig an overload on that motor. How about some part numbers ect from grainger ect. I have my Countryside tricked out about every way there is but that and that could be a MUST HAVE item when burning corn. I have trashed 2 motors and jammed 3 or 4 times and its always caused by a stone or piece of nail or steel. That would be a great addition for anyone who has one of these stoves.

You need to determine what current your motor is rated to handle for instance if your motor is rated 1 amp you could use something like this:
http://www.newark.com/29F1601/electrical-circuit-protection/product.us0?sku=EATON-HEINEMANN-KD1-1 or this page will probably have what you need:
http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/re...250&Ns=ATRB_SORT_001_Current+Rating_2609833|1

Ray

 

[cold-n-michigan]

We found our in line fuse holder at ACE Hardware in the Automotive department for 2 bucks. On the motor itself there should be a rating.

 

[raybonz]

We found our in line fuse holder at ACE Hardware in the Automotive department for 2 bucks. On the motor itself there should be a rating.

Fuses and overloads are different things.. An overload is designed to handle full current for a period of time and are resettable if they trip and tend to reduce nuisance trips which would shut your stove off.. A fuse used in conjunction with an overload provides short circuit protection and also overload protection.. If you want to use a fuse I suggest a time delay fuse or high-inrush fuse to handle occasional overloads however they can blow due to fatigue.. In case you're wondering I am a licensed electrician and have worked industrial maintenance for about 25 years..

Ray

 

[raybonz]

My auger motor went out on me last night. arghhhh!! It lasted only since October, and I'm pretty miffed about it to say the least. I hope the next one lasts for more than 7 or so months.

Hello Dan,
Did a jam cause your auger motor to fail? If so you can add a motor overload in series with the motor power that would trip in the event of a prolonged overload condition.. The overload would trip and shut off power to the motor allowing you to correct the jam condition and then manually reset the overload.. If you wanted to get fancy you could use an auxilliary to turn on a light or buzzer to alert you to an overload trip..

Ray

I don't think it was a jam, due to the fact that I was able to easily turn the auger by hand after disconnecting the motor.

It's possible the motor bearings are worn which could cause the rotor to lock up.. Do you ever oil your motor bushings? Some motors have thermal cut-outs built into the windings and I have seen them fail open .. I have bypassed them on occasion and added an external replacable resettable motor overload.. Do your motor windings smell like burned varnish?

Ray

 

[tyru007]

A jam in a screw conveyor or auger causes "locked rotor current", which is about 4-6X the full load amp rating of the motor. Most motors are built to withstand about 1 second of locked rotor current before damage occurs, depending on the build of the motor. Smaller "economical" motors probably are not built to withstand even that. Slow blow fuses, overloads and circuit breakers protect against prolonged high current draw, short circuit, and ground fault, but will not typically protect a motor against a jam (locked rotor) condition. Typically I design jam protection systems to monitor motor current and shut down the motor at greater than 180% full load current for 0.5 to 0.9 seconds.

IMO, I do not understand why auger power monitoring is not incorporated into the control system for a pellet stove. This would only require a small CT and a resistor to convert the auger motor current draw to a volt signal for the controller. Set up the controller to warn on high current draw and shut down on a locked rotor condition.

Just my 2 cents worth