Englander Auger Motor Failure and Replacement

[leezah]

Thanks for putting this up here. It helped me a lot since i'm a new stove owner.



Regards,
Liza
(broken link removed)

 

[Arnold]

Found a OEM motor & some other Englander parts on Ebay here:

(broken link removed to http://cgi.ebay.com/Englander-Pellet-Stove-Auger-Motor-NEW_W0QQitemZ280415105472QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item414a0af1c0)

That was the cheapest one.........there are about 6 other motors listed.........not sure if they're the heavy duty ones or not.

 

[NEStoveOwner]

No gasket between the gear box halves and shaft end is exposed. Id say its a MK.



Mike, did you every pass the GA info on to the lab guys at Englander to do a comparison?
That was your last PM to me in Jan 2009. Sorry if you posted the results and I missed it.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

No gasket between the gear box halves and shaft end is exposed. Id say its a MK.



Mike, did you every pass the GA info on to the lab guys at Englander to do a comparison?
That was your last PM to me in Jan 2009. Sorry if you posted the results and I missed it.

yeah i did as for the data being that long ago im not sure where it is anymore.

 

[seige101]

Nestoveowner, another western mass resident here(Palmer) i have been having the same problems with my auger on my enviro empress. I go through the same greasing process yearly.. As luck would have it the auger motor failed in the middle of the night. I was about to order a new one from the local dealer for $151, or some site online for 125 plus 14.95 shipping (it's not that freaking heavy). However after seeing this post i may stop in grainger and pick up a new one from them instead. Did you go to the branch on cottage street in springfield? and if so was it a stock item?

Thanks

Edit, read the entire post first. DUH! You went with the other one. (gleason)

Edit x2, the GA motor is not rated for continuous. Though in a pellet stove is technically not continuous duty, i wonder what their duty cycle is rated for.

 

[seige101]

Just checking in again. GA Auger motor running fine and stove is not having any issues. No work done with Englander to investigate my motor failures. Have not heard back if they are going to test GA units themselves.

I've been following your threads, and if I may, please comment on the following summary, which I believe captures the 4 available auger motors mentioned in your posts which will work without modification on the Englander 25-PDVC and PDV:

MFG........................Part#..........................On-line sales....................Price.......URL
Merkle Korff............U-047040................Englander........................$130.98 .... http://tinyurl.com/dmom2p
Merkle Korff............8211.......................Merkle Korff......................$73.18 .... http://tinyurl.com/averwq
Dayton...................1LNG2A...................Grainger...........................$89.00 .... (broken link removed)
Gleason Avery........A901.......................Gleason Avery...................$79.95 .... (broken link removed to http://tinyurl.com/cbc9ze)

I assume that you're happy with the A901 and would recommend it over the others. I couldn't find the part number on the MK (model 4515UI-050) in my 25-PDVC on their website, so assume that it's assigned to the 'custom' motor supplied to Englander.

Here are a few Q's:

(1) Is the MK U-047040 identical to the MK 8211, or does the rotation need to be changed, or the output shaft modified to fit the auger?

(2) I re-read your posts and cannot find where I swear you noted that one of these motors was available at a reduced price for the motor portion only, that is, without gearbox...was that the Dayton?

(3) Are any of/all of these motors easily fitted to the gearbox on the MK motor in the Englander?

Bottom line here is that it would seem from everything I've read that the gearboxes on the Englander MK motors are bulletproof, but the motor portion is not, so the best cost effective solution to a failed auger motor would be attaching a GA A901 motor to the MK gearbox supplied with the stove, no?

And the cheapest would be fitting whatever of these is available without the gearbox to the MK/Englander gearbox?

EDIT Feb.25/2009: I emailed Grainger, and the Dayton 1LNG2 motor is not available as a separate part. Also got a reply from Merkle Korff re. availability of motor only for their 8211, and it is also not sold separate.

This is great stuff! I don't know about all you guys and gals out there but is anyone up for making a data base of replacement parts by stove, then a link to the site where you can order the part? Just as you have done above. Count me in.

One last thing of note, grainger offers a 3 year replacement plan for 16.95 may be worth it if you are burning up motors all the time. They will replace it one time.

 

[packrat35]

I just ordered a Gleason-Avery A901 motor for my pellet stove. I have a Gloking pellet stove and that company I understand is now out of business. The motor that came with the stove was a Merkel-Korff Model 4515 UI-63. I really can't complain about it because it worked very well for 12 years. Earlier this year it quit turning and I was able to get it going again but I think the bearings are worn out. After I added some oil to the bearings the motor worked ok but it seems after the oil goes away the motor gives up again.

I want to say thanks for all the great information here especially to NEStoveOwner for the info about the Gleason-Avery motors. I like the idea of sealed bearings. I can't wait to try the new motor.

 

[edwinjk]

Hey Guys:
I am a newbe. I have an Englander 25PDV pellett stove. When I shut down, I clean it with
my shop vac. Then I take WD40 & spray it in the auger. This does a couple of things, first it
lubricates the auger & prevents it from binding. Also, I noticed that it seems to disolve some of
the carbon. The excess WD40 will burn off. I clean my stove once a day & it seems to work.
I am using Kentucky Kernel hardwood pellets with a low amount of fines. Just thoyght that I would pass it on.
edwinjk

 

[imacman]

Hey Guys:
I am a newbe. I have an Englander 25PDV pellett stove. When I shut down, I clean it with
my shop vac. Then I take WD40 & spray it in the auger. This does a couple of things, first it
lubricates the auger & prevents it from binding. Also, I noticed that it seems to disolve some of
the carbon. The excess WD40 will burn off. I clean my stove once a day & it seems to work.
I am using Kentucky Kernel hardwood pellets with a low amount of fines. Just thoyght that I would pass it on.
edwinjk

Hi edwin, welcome to the forum.

As far as spraying WD-40 into the auger, IMO, I wouldn't do it anywhere there is flame. If you have squeaking, let the hopper empty itself of almost all the pellets, then put a couple of big handfuls in a coffee can, and get some powdered graphite (hardware store?) and mix it with the pellets. Dump them in, and run the stove. The graphite works great to lube the auger.

 

[KarlMsUSA]

Regarding motor specs: The Dayton 1LNG2 is a Merkle-Korf 8191 speced at 1rpm 80 "# start - 100"# run. I believe the M-K supplied by Englander is rated 50"# which I'm guessing is start torque. The M-K 8145 seems to be the basis for the Englander motor & is rated 50 start 50 run.
As far as I can tell all the motors listed in the chart are synchronous type which would mean that their run speed is primarily affected by supply frequency (60hz U.S.), not minor voltage variations.

 

[KarlMsUSA]

That's SHADED POLE synchronous type.

 

[Birdman Jack]

I am not having a problem yet but I am quite sure I will before long. The top motor for the hopper runs cool but the bottom auger runs to hot to touch. It is because it is hooked to the augar that is feeding the fire so it is exposed to the heat. I have been looking for a replacement motor but but cannot believe the price of these units. I am thinking of trying to find 12 volt motors to replace them. Anyone have any thoughts about this?

 

[imacman]

I am not having a problem yet but I am quite sure I will before long. The top motor for the hopper runs cool but the bottom auger runs to hot to touch. It is because it is hooked to the augar that is feeding the fire so it is exposed to the heat. I have been looking for a replacement motor but but cannot believe the price of these units. I am thinking of trying to find 12 volt motors to replace them. Anyone have any thoughts about this?

I'm guessing that you have an Englander stove? The bottom auger does get hotter due to combustion, and may cause the motor attached to it to run hotter too.

Are you assuming the bottom motor will go bad based on the temp? What year is the stove? What model?

 

[packrat35]

I just received my new gearmotor from Gleason-Avery. It has no lugs attached to the wires and there does not appear to be a gasket sealing the gear box halves. I am on my way to the store to get some lugs and then will try and figure out how to attatch the lugs to the unit. Maybe I can epoxy them on. I will figure out something. It is cold outside and I need to get the stove running.

I am bench testing it now and it does seem to run fairly quietly.

 

[Birdman Jack]

I have a an Englander model 25-pdvc I bought new about two months ago. I made a set of saddle bag heaters for the sides that has allowed me to hook it into my baseboard heating system. Keeps the water from freezing in the pipes and keeps my boiler about 70 degrees. The stove is our primary heat and the boiler is now backup. I do believe the heat on the bottom auger feed will prematurly burn the motor out. It would be easy to modify this to keep the motor cool and maybe extend its life. Hope this helps.

 

[packrat35]

I bench tested the new Gleason-Avery Model A901 gearmotor for about an hour and half. It runs very hot just like the old Merkel-Korff motor did. My conclusion is that it must be normal for this type of motor.

I tested it by just hooking it up to 120 volts AC and letting it run for about an hour and half. This is a no load test and the motor got to hot to touch. The gear box gets pretty warm after awhile also.

Maybe it is the coil that is producing the heat. I bench tested the old Merkel-Korff motor with the rotor removed and it still got too hot to touch.

It looks like if I am going to epoxy those lugs on I had better use some kind of high temperature apoxy.

 

[Birdman Jack]

It might be because it is running almost continuous and I believe these are an intermittent motor. The top motor only turns very slowly while the botom motor really cranks. I assume at around 3000 rpm. I still believe that with a little thought we can come up with something better that will do the job without such a price. I hate to have to keep a couple of spare motors around just in case at the price they cost.

 

[Birdman Jack]

I took some readings and a tag off one of the motors. The motors are Merkle Korff and the tag says inter. duty which I assume stands for intermittent duty. The temperature readings I got were measured on both motors just to compare. The readings I got were at the bearing, the stacked plates and the gearbox.
hopper motor
bearing 115
cstack 112
gearbox 114

auger feed motor
bearing 162
cstack 174
gearbox 142

Now to be fair I also took a reading at the back of the stove where the auger enters. The reading was 139. Makes sense to blame the motor for the heat after measuring because where the auger is is cooler than the motor. I don't know if anyone else has measured any temps yet but would be interesting to compare. All my readings were in Fahrenheit.

 

[packrat35]

I decided that I did not need to epoxy the lugs to the motor. I went to Lowes and bought some lugs. I just crimped the lugs to the wires from the motor and then hooked up the stove wires to those. It might actually be better this way.

I installed the motor and it seems to be working well and is fairly quiet. My previous motor lasted about 12 years and if this one lasts that long I will be very happy.

Can you feel the warmth?

 

[packrat35]

The new Gleason-Avery gearmotor is working very well. Actually it is working a little too well.

The gear motor that was in there before was rated for 1 RPM and the new motor is rated 1.1 RPM. I thought 0.1 RPM would not make much of a difference but it seems to.

The Gloking pellet stove I have has 4 pellet feed settings and then a potentiometer that gives the ability for a slight adjustment on each setting.

These are the settings Low, Medium, High, and Max/High

Now with this new gearmotor the low setting is more like the old medium setting and the medium setting is like the old high setting.

Is there any easy way to slow these motors down?

 

[Birdman Jack]

The new Gleason-Avery gearmotor is working very well. Actually it is working a little too well.

The gear motor that was in there before was rated for 1 RPM and the new motor is rated 1.1 RPM. I thought 0.1 RPM would not make much of a difference but it seems to.

The Gloking pellet stove I have has 4 pellet feed settings and then a potentiometer that gives the ability for a slight adjustment on each setting.

These are the settings Low, Medium, High, and Max/High

Now with this new gearmotor the low setting is more like the old medium setting and the medium setting is like the old high setting.

Is there any easy way to slow these motors down?

If you can get a value on the pot and it is not hard to change try a different value. If it is not easy to change like it is soldered on a cuircut board you may be able to throw some resistance in line to slow it down. Just a thought or two.

 

[packrat35]

Thanks for the reply birdman. That is an idea to see about changing the pot so the voltage supplied to the motor is on for a shorter time. I will have to see if I can find the schematic.

I will check the pot also and see what info I can get off of it.

 

[GVA]

If it's NOT direct drive you can change sprocket sizes.

 

[tflight]

Great thread... my auger motor on an old Breckwell P23 just died so this has been very helpful. My motor is a 1.0 RMP. I'm likely going to replace the stove when the heating season ends so I'm not looking to throw a ton of money into it nor am I worried about the fix lasting several years. I've looked at these four options:


• Breckwell lists this (broken link removed to http://breckwell.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=5&category_id=7&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1) replacement model which is close, but not exact to what mine looks like. (But is the correct replacement model.)

• It looks like Gleason Avery only has down to 1.2 RMP models and with only four feed settings on my stove I don't want to give each of those settings a 20% increase.

• Grainger has this (broken link removed) which is interesting... I don't know if that big fan would add much noise or not. Also Grainger is wholesale only and requires a business ID.

• Finally there is this MK model for $73 that looks like it would work.


Any opinions or other options/sources known?

 

[BJN644]

Great thread... my auger motor on an old Breckwell P23 just died so this has been very helpful. My motor is a 1.0 RMP. I'm likely going to replace the stove when the heating season ends so I'm not looking to throw a ton of money into it nor am I worried about the fix lasting several years. I've looked at these four options:


• Breckwell lists this (broken link removed to http://breckwell.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=5&category_id=7&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1) replacement model which is close, but not exact to what mine looks like. (But is the correct replacement model.)

• It looks like Gleason Avery only has down to 1.2 RMP models and with only four feed settings on my stove I don't want to give each of those settings a 20% increase.

• Grainger has this (broken link removed) which is interesting... I don't know if that big fan would add much noise or not. Also Grainger is wholesale only and requires a business ID.

• Finally there is this MK model for $73 that looks like it would work.


Any opinions or other options/sources known?

I'm pretty sure I've bought from Grainger online as an individual, if they won't take your money try McMaster-Carr, they usually carry the same stuff as Grainger.