englander 25-pdvc

[doghouse]

Every forum has characters like him. Just remind him that its a long fall off a high horse. It would seem to me that you shouldn't have to be an Electrical engineer to own and operate your pellet stove. You should not have to go around testing this, measuring that or running diagnostics on things just to get your stove to work. Having that many auger moters go bad on you seems to me like something the stove manufacturer should oun up to. Keep plugging, its the only way.

I have to disagree that his problem sounds like something the stove manufacturer needs to own up to. If there were multiple people with multiple failures in their auger motor I may agree, however there are hundreds of Englander owners on this very site, and only two or three seem to be having problems, and only one that I have seen has been through four motors. Now, this person also points out that the real problem is a design flaw in the motor, and if Englander would only work with him, he would help them to solve it. My guess is if it were a design flaw, there would be many more of us with problems.

Secondly, there are a great many post on this site from people who go on and on about the quality of service they have recieved from Englanders customer service department, yet this same person also has problems with their customer service. In fact his statements of the problems he has had with them are so far off the charts from everyone elses experience, that it again leads me to believe that jusy maybe he is the reason for the problem.

And lastly, do you really think that he just somehow, out of the hundreds, if not thousands of customers that they deal with, got 4 bad motors sent to him, and the most absurd customer service I have ever heard of? The theme I see between his experiences and almost everyone elses, is him.

Every 7th or 8th post on this site is an Englander owner with some sort of problem to his or her stove (two or three having problems?). Most get resolved, some, like his, don't. How many pellet stove owners out there get bad customer service and don't know this web site exists so they can vent? We only know the experience of those who log-on here. Regardeless, nestoveowner came here hoping to find answers. Most offered sound advice, some challenged his intelligence. Four auger moters go bad? You know its possible. Maybe 4 auger moters is the symptom, not the problem. NEstoveowner surely doesn't need me to defend him and yes, we do only have his side of the story. "..most absurd customer I have ever heard," yea, it happens and not everybody thinks its all his fault.

Englander stove owner.

 

[webbie]

There are so many forces at work that it is silly for anyone to second guess a customer and their experience...either good or bad. Having sold thousands of stoves and manufactured others, I found a LOT of factors at play which determine whether "weaknesses" in a product show up.

First one is how the stove is used. We sold hundreds of certain brand names in NJ and had very few problems, but a dealer that sold the same stoves in NH would have a 50% failure rate. Why? Well, simply because our customers did not use them as hard and therefore expose the weakness.

MANY customers rarely use their stoves. Really. A lot of pellet stoves use one ton a year. A lot of wood stoves use one cord a year. Really......

I'm all for folks exposing their problems here....but having the peanut gallery throwing in their opinions as to whether or not it is a real problem seems fruitless.

It must be approached from a mechanical standpoint. It's fairly easy to do that. Certainly every Englander does not go through a motor every year. And certainly 4 replacement motors are unlikely to be bad. You can work it by process of elimination. Is this an insert? I heard that mentioned. Yes, it might get hotter and many fewer are sold, so it could be a design problems.

Or, the stove itself could have been one of those "friday" models where some tolerance - example - auger in the feed tube - makes it so that the thing gets stuck and overheats the motor.

I'm not an expert mechanic, but if you follow these things piece by piece you can usually come up with what the problem is. Off the cuff, 180 degrees sounds like a high temp for a motor to run at. Maybe it does need that cooling fan/shaft thing.

There are several possibilities. But the least likely is that our friend with the problems is putting some kind of hex on his stove. If and when we get this taken care of, it will add to our knowledge...including that of the factory. That is how products are improved.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

FWIW , NE and i have been communicating via PM over the last couple days and we will soon (when time permits us) dig into this stove and see what the issue is. when we are done i will leave it to NE to post results if he wishes to do so. we have not in any way quarrelled and i feel that i can bring resolution or at least bring light to the actual cause of the issue.


film at 11

as for the derision, i would hope that civility would prevail in the forums, its not needed nor is it helpful

 

[NEStoveOwner]

Mike and i have exchanged several PMs so far.

Both in my PMs and in my posts there have been no attacks on Englander and Mike. The communication has been straight forward and informative on both parts.

I am sure some would love if this turned into some bash fest well i wont make it that.

The Englander representative i am dealing with now has been gracious enough to give this issue some effort. I think Englander could use one or two more Mike's

Our next step is putting time on the calendar so he and i can try and figure out whats going on. He's a busy guy and i need to leave work in order to be at the stove and talk through some stuff. Because i am here to find a solution (and not make attacks on other forums members) its worth it for me.

Outcome to be posted ......

 

[NEStoveOwner]

Secondly, there are a great many post on this site from people who go on and on about the quality of service they have recieved from Englanders customer service department,

From the customer service dept in general or Mike specifically? Meaning, have you called their tech support to talk to anyone other than Mike?

I am not here to bash anyone ... could you tell me who else you dealt with at Englander? I would like to see if your experience with the other people there are the same as mine.

 

[NEStoveOwner]

Maybe 4 auger moters is the symptom, not the problem.

Still open to that theory.

I need Englanders help to prove that one way or another. They previously declined that effort. Mike has agree to take on the effort.

 

[doghouse]

FWIW , NE and i have been communicating via PM over the last couple days and we will soon (when time permits us) dig into this stove and see what the issue is. when we are done i will leave it to NE to post results if he wishes to do so. we have not in any way quarrelled and i feel that i can bring resolution or at least bring light to the actual cause of the issue.


film at 11

as for the derision, i would hope that civility would prevail in the forums, its not needed nor is it helpful

Thanks, Mike.

Any info on the 'new' stove?

 

[donbryce]

WHEW, I just read the entire thread, trying to find out if the OP's 'whining' noise was possibly caused by something other than the blower motor, and sifting through all the discussions, I found nothing. I started reading because of my similar problem, which I'll describe.
During start-up (25-PDVC), mine whines, like the sound of ringing metal, possibly caused by resonance from the motor. The sound changes slightly when you push down hard on the hopper latches, or adjust the tightness of the door closer rod, which is why I think it's coming from induced vibrations in the steel structure, not the motor itself. I adjusted the hopper latches per the manual instruction, and always run the stove with the door tight BTW.
After the stove reaches set temperature, and the room air fan kicks in, the sound disappears. Yes, disappears, not gets masked by the fan noise. When I press the 'off' button, the whining/ringing gradually comes back up in volume, louder as it cools down.
I called tech help at Englander and the guy suggested it would go away after the stove had broken in, since I've only burned less than 20 bags so far.
Anyone else had this experience?

 

[slvrblkk]

donbryce,

I know exactly what you are talking about, my stove does the same thing. As soon as the pellets ignite, the sound goes away. I'm into my third season with it and it still does it but it doesn't bother me at all. I think it's just the way it is.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

WHEW, I just read the entire thread, trying to find out if the OP's 'whining' noise was possibly caused by something other than the blower motor, and sifting through all the discussions, I found nothing. I started reading because of my similar problem, which I'll describe.
During start-up (25-PDVC), mine whines, like the sound of ringing metal, possibly caused by resonance from the motor. The sound changes slightly when you push down hard on the hopper latches, or adjust the tightness of the door closer rod, which is why I think it's coming from induced vibrations in the steel structure, not the motor itself. I adjusted the hopper latches per the manual instruction, and always run the stove with the door tight BTW.
After the stove reaches set temperature, and the room air fan kicks in, the sound disappears. Yes, disappears, not gets masked by the fan noise. When I press the 'off' button, the whining/ringing gradually comes back up in volume, louder as it cools down.
I called tech help at Englander and the guy suggested it would go away after the stove had broken in, since I've only burned less than 20 bags so far.
Anyone else had this experience?

if the noise is only when the stove is cool, such as early in startup or late in shutdown , the culprit is the airwash intake holes. look under the front edge of the hull of the stove , there are 2 holes in the front weld pass there , these are the air entry points for the airwash. to see if this is the cause of the noise, turn the stove on after locating the holes , cover one , then the other one at a time , if the noise ceases completely when covered then thats it. easy fix, a little bump of high temp silicone right next to the offending hole changes the way the air enters the hole and makes the noise go away. its not a "breaking in" thing , mine will still do it if i remove the little blurb of silicone i have on mine. its not harmful to the stove and is not a sign of an impending component issue with the stove. feel free to contact me to discuss it if you like but do not be concerned with it being somthing that will cause a problem functionally with the stove.

 

[slvrblkk]

WHEW, I just read the entire thread, trying to find out if the OP's 'whining' noise was possibly caused by something other than the blower motor, and sifting through all the discussions, I found nothing. I started reading because of my similar problem, which I'll describe.
During start-up (25-PDVC), mine whines, like the sound of ringing metal, possibly caused by resonance from the motor. The sound changes slightly when you push down hard on the hopper latches, or adjust the tightness of the door closer rod, which is why I think it's coming from induced vibrations in the steel structure, not the motor itself. I adjusted the hopper latches per the manual instruction, and always run the stove with the door tight BTW.
After the stove reaches set temperature, and the room air fan kicks in, the sound disappears. Yes, disappears, not gets masked by the fan noise. When I press the 'off' button, the whining/ringing gradually comes back up in volume, louder as it cools down.
I called tech help at Englander and the guy suggested it would go away after the stove had broken in, since I've only burned less than 20 bags so far.
Anyone else had this experience?

if the noise is only when the stove is cool, such as early in startup or late in shutdown , the culprit is the airwash intake holes. look under the front edge of the hull of the stove , there are 2 holes in the front weld pass there , these are the air entry points for the airwash. to see if this is the cause of the noise, turn the stove on after locating the holes , cover one , then the other one at a time , if the noise ceases completely when covered then thats it. easy fix, a little bump of high temp silicone right next to the offending hole changes the way the air enters the hole and makes the noise go away. its not a "breaking in" thing , mine will still do it if i remove the little blurb of silicone i have on mine. its not harmful to the stove and is not a sign of an impending component issue with the stove. feel free to contact me to discuss it if you like but do not be concerned with it being somthing that will cause a problem functionally with the stove.

Mike thanks, that's exactly what causes that sound. That sound really doesn't bother us but it's nice to know where it's coming from.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

that model has had that trait since inception though all do not do it many do. mine did as well, the fix i mentioned does work and is non invasive and hidden from view. i will admit the sound wasnt much of a nuisence to me and was almost like having an alarm to let you know when the stove was out of fuel and shutting down. i did the fix to ensure that it worked.

 

[Skunk]

Our 25-pdvc began whining today after a month's use. The noise is directly related with the fan blower setting. Turning the blower to 0 momentarily and then back on made the noise disappear. Will open the stove up to check out the room and exhaust blowers. It's got to be one of the two, right?

 

[PunKid8888]

Another thing to look for is a rubbing between the auger motors and the rear service panel. Mine some times start rubbing and that whole panel resonates. I give it a wack and it goes away.

Also, I have burned through 40 bags this (my first season) and my lower auger motor went within the first 10. The service guys were great they walked me through a quick fix for the motor and I was burning again while I waited for a new motor, only took 3 days too. I think the service is excellent.

Honestly. My 2 cents, Englander's seams to be a good stove for an extremely good price. And I think with that price u don't get the BMW or the Lexus, but maybe more like the Ford Taurus, Dodge Neon, or Chevy Caviler, Sure they are not luxurious but they get the job done and when they do break they are a lot easy to fix. I don't know I am a car guy.

 

[pelletizer]

PUNKID888, Resonating back panel just loosen up the back panel screws and adjust the panel,

SKUNK, I just replaced my exhaust motor due to whining and WOW is it quiet now.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Our 25-pdvc began whining today after a month's use. The noise is directly related with the fan blower setting. Turning the blower to 0 momentarily and then back on made the noise disappear. Will open the stove up to check out the room and exhaust blowers. It's got to be one of the two, right?

if you set blower speed to 0 and noise stopped, its the room fan you want to check. blower speed control does not affect combustion blower

 

[Skunk]

Right, great. Have taken the rear panel off and it's definitely the room fan next to the control unit. Will call sometime I guess.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

you can call , or you can file an online warranty claim for the blower if defective, but the stove must be registered in our files first , if you have not registered , do an online warranty registration and also file an online claim, we will register your stove and ship a replacement blower if requested.

 

[NEStoveOwner]

Update

Mike and i have not been able to arrange a time where i am at home an he is at work. Still hoping to coordinate with Mike and do some debug.

I took the previously known bad motor that i was running tests on (not the current motor in the stove) and i rewound the windings.

A friend who is an EE put some code on a microchip connected to a laptop to count switch closures. I rigged a micro switch up to the tool post of my lathe. I put a long bolt through the windings spool , the bolt was held in the lathe chuck. A long metal arm/tab on the bolt triggered the switch every time the chuck made a revolution. 888 turns of 24 gauge wire.

I have rewound the spool and cant run tests right now because i had to epoxy some cracks in the plastic spool. Tomorrow after the epoxy is dry i will run the same tests i did previously (current draw and temp without load outside the stove). If its the same or better i will put it in the stove and see how long it runs.

My hunch has always been windings and this should prove it one way or another.

The coating on the winding wire i took off was very "cracked". As I pull it through my finger tips and all i could feel was jagged for about the first 100 turns during unwind.

Will post findings when i have some.

 

[NEStoveOwner]

Another update.

Mike and i have not be able to arrange a time for him to be at work and me to be at home. He works some Satrudays and i was hoping for a saturday call so i wouldnt have to take time off work.

I completed winding the bobbin and i ran into an issue. My winding is oversized to the original winding by 1/8". When i went to put the motor back togther the overall size of the bobbin can not fit in the motor frame any longer. I was hoping to use this to prove or disprove my failed winding theory. There is one other option here and that is to buy a motor assembly (without gearbox) as there are some suppliers selling this stand alone. The catalogs i went through didnt prove conclusively it would fit. Dayton offers them. They are called C Frame Shaded pole motors. Until i measured the input RPM of the Merkle Korff i dont know that i could swap it out. I would also need to adapt the end of the Granger armature to make it mesh into the MK gearbox. If i could get my hands on one to look at its possible i could determine if i could use it for just the windings. They only cost ~$17 at Grangers. That might have to be plan A2 - if Plan B doesnt work.



I have already Plan B and am giving Mike the courtesy of a heads up and comment via PM before i do any posting on what i have done / discovered.

I will continue to post my findings and updates. Regardless of what i find and end up doing I will post the good and the bad. As you can see from above i thought i could wind a bobbin and i found out i couldnt but it was worth the effort.

As much bashing as i have taken .... i will keep coming back.

 

[chowder63]

I have found alot of this Noise you are all talking about is the cover to this motor.. I have had this stove for 5 years and have not replaced a part yet.. My blower motor pu-076002b is making lots of noise but if i put my hand in the whole and hold the motor it shuts up and is very quite.. after removing the motor and taking a closer look at it.. there is play between the black cover and the mounting bracket very small but enough to cause a loud vibration noise.. Check this out before replacing the motor... or you can sell me your motors for $5.00 a peace.. Just my two cents..

 

[pelletizer]

Hey check it out you posted almost to the day 1 year after the last post. You say you had your stove for 5 years, I had my stove for only 6 and 9 months when I had the whining resonating sounds, I had a different motor (fasco enclosed) than you as well, and ended up replacing both motors in my stove at 6 and 9 months

 

[little_hawk_59]

my motors are good i have the 11 year old room blower and replaced the draft motor this year happy with mine

 

[bouch48]

Firestarter, What did you do about that play between the cover and mounting bracket, I also have that same problem but do not want to spend 130 bucks for new combustion blower. Thanks

Duane

 

[chowder63]

sorry so late with the reply .. i tried to get the cover off with no luck so i had some heat proof cauking that i put all the way around that gap.. let it dry and your good.. worked like a charm.