England PAH Stove went out this morning on its own

[jtakeman]

Sorry should have included that info. Yes there are plenty of pellets in the hopper and yes unburned pellets in the burnpot. The augur was still feeding pellets down there was just no fire. The firebox was actually full of them, I dumped them back in the hopper when I cleaned out the stove this morning.

2 things. Careful when dumping the pellets back into the hopper. Better to let them site for a good while before dumping back in. Im sure others might know why.

2nd if the auger was still droping pellets with no fire there could be other issues you need to look into. POF with a cold stove should be open. If the POF is stuck closed you find the stove will still think its running when it goes out. Filling inside the stove with pellets from the hopper. It will just stay running when it runs out of fuel too!

Thanks, it had been about 4 hours since it went out when I cleaned it out, so I would imagine it was completely cooled. I'm guessing that is what you were getting at?

And this maybe a stupid question but what is a POF? Sorry

Proof Of Fire switch. Just curious why it was still dropping pellets but it said sd on the control. SmokeyTheBear is heading in the same direction. But he is asking questions when I just assumed! :red:

 

[briggsy13]

To the OP,

Could you elaborate on what you meant when you said the stove shut down.

What if anything was still operating on the stove?

Sure, I was sitting in the living room enjoying my coffee when I heard the blower get quieter. My first thought was one of the little ones messed with it. When I looked at it there was no flame, but I could still hear pellets dropping. I can't remember what the readout was when I first looked at it, I'm guessing the 1 & 2 it was set on. Then when I looked again it was Sd. Then it just shut down like it had been turned off.

At this point nothing was operating on the stove, both the convection and combustion fans were off, and the auger had stopped, correct or not ??

Do you mean when it completely shut down? yes nothing was running and it completely shut off.

Prior to that I am not 100% sure what was running or not running, sorry. It didn't have my attention, I was keeping the 5, 3, and 1 year old under control. Again sorry I don't have more detailed info. If anything like this happens again I will be sure to go and watch it and take notes so I can give better info.

 

[briggsy13]

Sorry should have included that info. Yes there are plenty of pellets in the hopper and yes unburned pellets in the burnpot. The augur was still feeding pellets down there was just no fire. The firebox was actually full of them, I dumped them back in the hopper when I cleaned out the stove this morning.

2 things. Careful when dumping the pellets back into the hopper. Better to let them site for a good while before dumping back in. Im sure others might know why.

2nd if the auger was still droping pellets with no fire there could be other issues you need to look into. POF with a cold stove should be open. If the POF is stuck closed you find the stove will still think its running when it goes out. Filling inside the stove with pellets from the hopper. It will just stay running when it runs out of fuel too!

Thanks, it had been about 4 hours since it went out when I cleaned it out, so I would imagine it was completely cooled. I'm guessing that is what you were getting at?

And this maybe a stupid question but what is a POF? Sorry

Proof Of Fire switch. Just curious why it was still dropping pellets but it said sd on the control. SmokeyTheBear is heading in the same direction. But he is asking questions when I just assumed! :red:

Ok I get it now. It is entirely possible that by the time it was shutting down that it had stopped dropping pellets. I do remember that after I heard the blower fan get quieter that I still heard pellets dropping. Could just be a timing thing, the pellets probably stopped when it shut down, but I can't say for sure.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

What I was concerned about was that the stove did not actually act on the POF and continued until you intervened.

It usually takes a long while to have a lot of pellets in other than the burn pot if the flame goes out on a low feed rate.

Was wondering if you had a stuck POF system or a bum control.

 

[briggsy13]

What I was concerned about was that the stove did not actually act on the POF and continued until you intervened.

It usually takes a long while to have a lot of pellets in other than the burn pot if the flame goes out on a low feed rate.

Was wondering if you had a stuck POF system or a bum control.

I never intervened, it shut down on its own. Is that a good or bad thing?

and the pellets were only in the burn pot, no where else. But it was quite full.

 

[jtakeman]

Residual heat will let pellets drop until the POF cooled enough to shutdown the control. Almost impossible to eliminate some pellet filling before POF cools down.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

What I was concerned about was that the stove did not actually act on the POF and continued until you intervened.

It usually takes a long while to have a lot of pellets in other than the burn pot if the flame goes out on a low feed rate.

Was wondering if you had a stuck POF system or a bum control.

I never intervened, it shut down on its own. Is that a good or bad thing?

and the pellets were only in the burn pot, no where else. But it was quite full.

It is a good thing.

 

[briggsy13]

I turned it on again for the night and after about 45 mins (rough estimate) it has just done the same thing again. Only tonight it was running at 5 & 5. UGH a little frustrated cause this means our house will be chilly tonight. Glad I still made all the kids wear warm jammies.

Any ideas now?

Well it hasn't actually shut down, but the blower is off and no flame, just dropping pellets at this point. Assuming its gonna just go into shut down mode any second now.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Would you please post your lower three settings (low feed, low burn air, and aot )

 

[briggsy13]

Would you please post your lower three settings (low feed, low burn air, and aot )

1,4,1

totally clueless as to what they are supposed to be. I think my hubby may have touched them at some point, but not sure. He is out of the country right now. Thanks for your help!!

 

[DexterDay]

Would you please post your lower three settings (low feed, low burn air, and aot )

1,4,1

totally clueless as to what they are supposed to be. I think my hubby may have touched them at some point, but not sure. He is out of the country right now. Thanks for your help!!

What year is this stove?? Did you buy it new??

There will be a Warnock Hersey UL listing tag. Either on the Bottom left side of the stove or under the hopper lid. It will tell you the year of Manuf. Although you may have purchased it this year, it may be a yr or 3, or 5, or etc old.... This will help with the bottom 3 #'s..

They may be right. But may be wrong. 1st # seems low. But not familiar with Brand new units... Need exact model year

 

[briggsy13]

Would you please post your lower three settings (low feed, low burn air, and aot )

1,4,1

totally clueless as to what they are supposed to be. I think my hubby may have touched them at some point, but not sure. He is out of the country right now. Thanks for your help!!

What year is this stove?? Did you buy it new??

There will be a Warnock Hersey UL listing tag. Either on the Bottom left side of the stove or under the hopper lid. It will tell you the year of Manuf. Although you may have purchased it this year, it may be a yr or 3, or 5, or etc old.... This will help with the bottom 3 #'s..

They may be right. But may be wrong. 1st # seems low. But not familiar with Brand new units... Need exact model year

6/10

it was a refurbished unit we just bought in 9/11

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

In one of your first posts where you mentioned the firebox having a lot of unburned pellets in it I sent a PM to Mike Holton he works for England Stove Works and is a member here, hopefully he'll go through the thread tonight.

I'd change the lba to 3, that should reduce the air going through the burn pot. I don't know what the default is for your unit, Mike will know.

Give it another try..

Perhaps another England PAH owner will show up to help you.

With that in mind would you please modify the thread title to include England PAH

 

[briggsy13]

In one of your first posts where you mentioned the firebox having a lot of unburned pellets in it I sent a PM to Mike Holton he works for England Stove Works and is a member here, hopefully he'll go through the thread tonight.

I'd change the lba to 3, that should reduce the air going through the burn pot. I don't know what the default is for your unit, Mike will know.

Give it another try..

Perhaps another England PAH owner will show up to help you.

With that in mind would you please modify the thread title to include England PAH

Well I looked it up in the manual since I couldn't figure out how to change it. It says it comes preset and I can't change them?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

In one of your first posts where you mentioned the firebox having a lot of unburned pellets in it I sent a PM to Mike Holton he works for England Stove Works and is a member here, hopefully he'll go through the thread tonight.

I'd change the lba to 3, that should reduce the air going through the burn pot. I don't know what the default is for your unit, Mike will know.

Give it another try..

Perhaps another England PAH owner will show up to help you.

With that in mind would you please modify the thread title to include England PAH

Well I looked it up in the manual since I couldn't figure out how to change it. It says it comes preset and I can't change them?

Nope there is a procedure to change them. I don't know what it is but others on here sure do.

 

[DexterDay]

You can change them. Just advised against doing so.. On older units. (NOTE: OLDER UNITS, its 6-4-1) I am doing searches now. Forum member Saves$ has a Son that has one of these units. Not sure of the model yr. But I hope he is along shortly. Although it is a different model # they seem to all use the same board.

Raising the LBA like Smokey said should improve it somewhat. But a call to Englander or hopefully Mile Holton stops in, is your best bet for a permanent fix.


There may be a procedure for your model. My Fathers 01 model just requires you to hit the button then use the heat setting arrow to raise or lower the setting for LBA-LBF-AOT. From what I have been told and read. You never should have to mess with the AOT. Just LBA and LBF. These are Low Burn Fuel and Low Burn Air. Used to only affect the lower 2 settings. But can affect all heat ranges in newer models.

 

[staplebox]

I believe I have the same/similar stove.

Originally, I was going to say your (1st) problem was due to too few pellets feeding. I sounded like it just didn't get enough pellets into the pot to keep the fire going. The shutdown you described is what would have happened. Stove running fine - fire out due to loss of flame (no pellets to burn) - stove is still hot so pellets keep feeding for a bit (unburned) - stove loses heat and blower and upper feed auger stop (goes into Shut Down) - stove shuts off with pot full of unburnt pellets. That could have been due to a few things. Low feed rate too low, pellets hung (or bridged) up for a bit, hopper bottom opening too small, pellets burning too fast (too much air) etc.

Now with your second shutdown that doesn't seem to be right. A feed rate of 5 dumps a ton of pellets down the chute. Sounds like maybe you have an air problem - not enough combustion air to keep the fire. Sounds like this is a new install. You may want to check from the outside air kit (OAK) through the stove and out the exhaust for obstructions -kinked air hose maybe. Mouse, left over work glove. If no obvious problem there then I would ask what you venting set up is - how far, how many bends etc. If not that then the combustion blower.

Hope that helps.

PS
Once you do get it fixed you may want to spread out those setting you are running at. (This has no effect on your problem). I run at with either 1/4 - 2/7 or 3/9. I have rarely set the feed higher that 3. It can't hurt and should blow more warm air into the house. Even 1/6 seems fine - although opinions may vary.

 

[mike56]

Your fire is going out because the low feed is set to low try setting it to a higher number, i know this because my stove did the same thing when i was trying different settings.

 

[briggsy13]

Restarted it just a bit ago since it was 62 degrees in the house this morning. Its still in start up mode but I'll keep you posted.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

PM me a daytime phone number , im gonna be playing in my lab for a few hours today get me that number and i'll try to call you

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

PM me a daytime phone number , im gonna be playing in my lab for a few hours today get me that number and i'll try to call you

Hi Mike,

What are the defaults for the PAH?

 

[DexterDay]

PM me a daytime phone number , im gonna be playing in my lab for a few hours today get me that number and i'll try to call you

Hi Mike,

What are the defaults for the PAH?

Yep good idea. For future reference it should be noted.

 

[CygnusX1]

Sorry should have included that info. Yes there are plenty of pellets in the hopper and yes unburned pellets in the burnpot. The augur was still feeding pellets down there was just no fire. The firebox was actually full of them, I dumped them back in the hopper when I cleaned out the stove this morning.

2 things. Careful when dumping the pellets back into the hopper. Better to let them site for a good while before dumping back in. Im sure others might know why.

2nd if the auger was still droping pellets with no fire there could be other issues you need to look into. POF with a cold stove should be open. If the POF is stuck closed you find the stove will still think its running when it goes out. Filling inside the stove with pellets from the hopper. It will just stay running when it runs out of fuel too!

Thanks, it had been about 4 hours since it went out when I cleaned it out, so I would imagine it was completely cooled. I'm guessing that is what you were getting at?

And this maybe a stupid question but what is a POF? Sorry

POF = Proof of Fire.

No such thing as a stupid question in this forum. I'm probably the king of asking them.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

defaults for any PAH model regardless of MFG date are 1-4-1, the setup pis correct , its likely somthing else sounds like a "starve/smother" will know more when i contact the OP this afternoon. somthing is interrupting fuel feed rather than just not enough im thinking , might be a vac stint restriction or somthing of that nature

to the OP , please do NOT change those bottom settings without talking to me first! iuf im right and its a vacuum issue dropping the air will worsen it.

once i get this solved i'll post an explanation as to what happened and why, right now i gotta run and look at a stove i have burning on my test stand. i'll get back to you guys later

 

[jtakeman]

Could just be the wind! Strong enough wind into the vent will kill vacuum. Stove sounds fairly new so I tend not to think auger motor, But one never knows. Could be failing?

Mike will get you squared! No doubt about it!! ;-)