Electricity Rates

[jb6l6gc]

I am fortunate that I have CHEAP elgovernment y AND still burn with wood. I have co-workers who, despite paying $0.07/kWh in our province, have bills that are $500/month! I don't know what they'd do if they lived in another province. One guy even heats his detached garage to 15 degrees year round (it is insulated but still...)

Andrew

Ya $500 would be cheap compared to us idiots in ontario and its our awsome provincial government who leads into the deep pits of debt. I had one month this yr i didnt burn too much and kept tstat set to 60f and my bill was still over $300

 

[BrotherBart]

I am fortunate that I have CHEAP electricity AND still burn with wood. I have co-workers who, despite paying $0.07/kWh in our province, have bills that are $500/month! I don't know what they'd do if they lived in another province. One guy even heats his detached garage to 15 degrees year round (it is insulated but still...)

Andrew

A guy down the street when we built these houses back in 1985 was complaining about his electric bill. I knew he was a mechanic and we had thought about buying the house he was living in. I asked him how he heated that 24X24 garage that had a walk in door to the basement. He said "I leave the basement door open. Heats it pretty well since I work in there all the time.". He was heating a 2,500 sq. ft. house, 1,100 sq. ft. basement and that un-insulated garage with a heat pump rated for the two main floors of the house and couldn't figure out why the bill was high.

 

[Swedishchef]

With the cost of electricity going up, I can see wood becoming a viable heat source for lots of people...via pellet stoves or wood stoves.

 

[jebatty]

still nice to know I'm helping others to pay for their panels whether bought, leased, or retail

This argument in its various forms is so disingenuous and hypocritical that at times I think people advance it as a joke and are not serious at all. People who put in panels have the same impact on the grid and electric rates as all those other righteous people who:
1) replace incandescent bulbs with CFL
2) replace CFL with LED
3) insulate their homes
4) put in storm windows or more energy efficient new windows
5) install a high efficiency furnace
6) turn down their thermostats
7) forgo air conditioning
8) heat with wood or other biomass
9) wear a sweater and add extra blankets on the bed in winter
10) buy or live in a small home
11) use passive solar
12) turn out the lights and electric devices when not being used
13) install geothermal or a mini-split
14) celebrate their energy cost savings while criticizing someone else who pursues other energy cost savings
15) complain about one rebate while gladly accepting another
16) complain about one govt subsidy while gladly accepting others (for corn, wheat, sugar, cotton, rice, soybens, gasoline, heating oil, natural gas, etc.)
17) uses any less energy intensive product rather than a similarly functioning higher energy intensive product
17) [add your own here: ....]

Why complain about my rebate while gladly accepting your own?
Why complain about me spending my money to reduce energy usage while gladly spending your money on other energy reduction strategies?

Electric rates are going up because we have invested in a now outmoded production method and outmoded distribution infrastructure and people smarter than the rest of us have figured that out and are figuring out a new method of production and distribution which has huge societal benefits and profit potential. This is free enterprise, aka capitalism, at work par excellence, and it is using govt for the same advantages as all prior big capitalists have (oil, natural gas, iron ore, steel, railroads, electric generation and the nasty grid, etc.).

 

[Doug MacIVER]

#17 paying more directly for my electric usage to lower your cost and usage.(paid to the utility) seriously no joke here, I already pay gov't taxes as you do. some of that goes to subs, I know that. I'm paying more in distribution to help cover costs of your (in general) electricity. I just have to be redundant on that point.

 

[jebatty]

I'm paying more in distribution to help cover costs of your (in general) electricity.

Really? I hope you have all incandescent lighting and leave the lights on all the time, use electric baseboard or other resistance electric heating, and have all of the other high electric use items, because if not, people who have all those high electric use items are paying more in distribution costs to cover your reduced use of electricity.

My point is not personal. Utilities follow an unsustainable business model tied to guaranteed profits in a changed electric energy world. They are the Swiss watch makers, blacksmiths making horseshoes, and vacuum tubes factories of yester-year. Displacement or disruption of one industry by another competitor usually is painful for those displaced -- and maybe some compensation is in order to ease the pain (some might call this socialism), but it is far more efficient for society as a whole to bear the cost of that compensation instead of penalizing the better competitor and thwarting innovation, invention, and entrepreneurship of the better competitor.

 

[Doug MacIVER]

so condescending as usual here, have a day

 

[jebatty]

Doug, no intent to be condescending and, in fact, you have a valid argument, but I'm sure you recognize your argument works both ways.

What I don't know, and this varies among utilities, is the actual cost of distribution, from the generating plant to the end user. I don't know what the relationship is between my base charge and local distribution, repair and maintenance costs. My utility has claimed, true or not, that it allocates costs between base and other charges (all unexplained) while still claiming the base charge does not cover unidentified costs. I have no idea of the rationale for the base charge as it is now or or if the base charge should be something different.

Utility company transparency would be a start. And then how do we treat the person at the end of the line as opposed to user #1, and lots of other equity issues all over the board. What makes little sense to me though is penalizing the innovators, inventors and entrepreneurs.

 

[Otis B Driftwood]

When I do the math of dividing my total kwh usage against my total bill I pay around .22-.25 a kwh delivered. Half my bill is just charges in delivering to my home.

Just up the pike from you and pay 23¢ per kwh, all said and done.
I figgered it's to make up for the cleanup they laid on us after the
past few Nor'easters.

But yeah, it's good to be in Wallyworld. There's anudder town east
of us that's got community electric, Lisbon?

 

[billb3]

Delivery charge: 13.5¢
Generation charge: 15.0¢
so 28.5¢/Kwh plus a one time $1.38 storm performance charge
Feb25 to March25
House is all electric except for heat and hot water (oil boiler needs some electric )
Usually use 4 Kw /day or so this time of year

 

[chimneyman]

An interesting perspective on electric rates
http://www.nationofchange.org/2015/...-pay-some-of-the-lowest-rates-in-the-country/

We have a co-op here that buys its power from FPL (FL power and light) and the co-op rates have remained the same for the last 5 years. 7.6 cents/Kwhr for each of the first 500 Kwhrs. 8.6 cents for each Kwhr between 500 and 1000 and 9.7 cents of each kwhr over 1,000 kwhrs. Plus there's a $13 account fee plus $16 junk fee prorated for each 1,000 kwhrs. So 1,000 Kwhrs fully-loaded is about $110.

 

[chimneyman]

An interesting perspective on electric rates
http://www.nationofchange.org/2015/...-pay-some-of-the-lowest-rates-in-the-country/

Good article. Thanks.

 

[WiscWoody]

We have a co-op here that buys its power from FPL (FL power and light) and the co-op rates have remained the same for the last 5 years. 7.6 cents/Kwhr for each of the first 500 Kwhrs. 8.6 cents for each Kwhr between 500 and 1000 and 9.7 cents of each kwhr over 1,000 kwhrs. Plus there's a $13 account fee plus $16 junk fee prorated for each 1,000 kwhrs. So 1,000 Kwhrs fully-loaded is about $110.

That's not bad at all for that much power. My bill has been around $40-$45 a month for 230-250 KWh of power a month. That's for a 3400 sq foot house

 

[Where2]

We have a co-op here that buys its power from FPL (FL power and light) and the co-op rates have remained the same for the last 5 years. 7.6 cents/Kwhr for each of the first 500 Kwhrs. 8.6 cents for each Kwhr between 500 and 1000 and 9.7 cents of each kwhr over 1,000 kwhrs. Plus there's a $13 account fee plus $16 junk fee prorated for each 1,000 kwhrs. So 1,000 Kwhrs fully-loaded is about $110.

Considering Nextera (FPL) charges their typical grid customers $0.06259/kWh (non-fuel charge) plus $0.02491/kWh (fuel charge) for the first 1,000kWh and $0.01 more for each category for every kWh over 1,000kWh per month, you're really not taking much markup on FPL base residential rates, and FPL rates are far from static. They generally ask for and receive a ~3%/yr increase, to keep the share holders happy.

 

[WiscWoody]

I used to live in a metropolitan area where power was cheaper but now I'm in the sticks where the power company buys all of their power off the grid. None of the wires are buried meaning power failures are common. But it's interesting that I actually know most of the linemen up here. Well hell... I guess I know almost everyone around here after 7 years up here.... and I like it that way too.

 

[WiscWoody]

Considering Nextera (FPL) charges their typical grid customers $0.06259/kWh (non-fuel charge) plus $0.02491/kWh (fuel charge) for the first 1,000kWh and $0.01 more for each category for every kWh over 1,000kWh per month, you're really not taking much markup on FPL base residential rates, and FPL rates are far from static. They generally ask for and receive a ~3%/yr increase, to keep the share holders happy.

I just looked at FPL's web page and their rates, very cheap compared to here in the northland. We pay $13.00 for the monthly service charge and then $0.125 for every KWh we use. It makes you conserve more. For example a bud of mine wanted me to get a plasma TV set when they were more popular but I said I couldn't afford the 600 watts that they used to burn phosphorus instead opting for a more efficient LCD set that uses less than 100 watts of power to run.

 

[Swedishchef]

I still think Quebec has the best rates. I was paying an average of 7.6 cents/kWh. Can't complain when you're paying the second or third cheapest rates in Canada.

Now it's 30cents for the first 700 and 69 cents thereafter. Eeeee.

Andrew

 

[WiscWoody]

I still think Quebec has the best rates. I was paying an average of 7.6 cents/kWh. Can't complain when you're paying the second or third cheapest rates in Canada.

Now it's 30cents for the first 700 and 69 cents thereafter. Eeeee.

Andrew

You mean 7 and 6.9 cents right? I hope so! Lol

 

[Swedishchef]

You mean 7 and 6.9 cents right? I hope so! Lol

Nope. 30 cents/kWh for the first 700 kWh and 60 cents thereafter.

 

[WiscWoody]

Nope. 30 cents/kWh for the first 700 kWh and 60 cents thereafter.

YOWZA! Well I don't feel so bad with our rates here now!

 

[iamlucky13]

Not that electrical prices are a topic that goes out of date, but just FYI, this was a nearly 2 year dormant thread that just got revived.

I just looked at FPL's web page and their rates, very cheap compared to here in the northland. We pay $13.00 for the monthly service charge and then $0.125 for every KWh we use. It makes you conserve more. For example a bud of mine wanted me to get a plasma TV set when they were more popular but I said I couldn't afford the 600 watts that they used to burn phosphorus instead opting for a more efficient LCD set that uses less than 100 watts of power to run.

That must have been an early plasma TV. I have a 3-4 year old 51" plasma that I measured at 150W peak with a Kill a Watt. I think the average was more like 125W. For the amount of TV we watch, that's about 35 cents worth of electricity a month.

Here in the land of abundant and cheap hydropower, our local PUD leadership is trying it's hardest to drive our rates up to match yours. Rate increases in recent years are consistently exceeding inflation and they keep taking on new projects where the *wholesale* cost of generated energy is equal to or higher than their current *retail* cost.

 

[chimneyman]

Other forms of energy such as oil and gas are heavily subsidized. Makes far more sense to subsidize renewable energy, especially in light of global warming.

That's if global warming (due to mankind) really existed........which we can agree to disagree on but it doesn't solve the problem.

If you want solar and other renewables to be able to compete, solar needs to gain a foothold so that prices will decrease to the point where it (solar) is an everyday commodity instead of a "nice to have" which is only affordable by the rich. To do this the government needs to mandate use of solar in every home built in areas where it's feasible to use it (based on hours of solar available per day vs savings in electricity and respectable pay back period). Once solar becomes just another commodity prices will plummet. Same thing happened with LED light bulbs and other technologies.

 

[iamlucky13]

Nope. 30 cents/kWh for the first 700 kWh and 60 cents thereafter.

Pretty far north, I assume, with a small local powerplant that fuel has to get trucked or barged in for?

 

[WiscWoody]

Not that electrical prices are a topic that goes out of date, but just FYI, this was a nearly 2 year dormant thread that just got revived.



That must have been an early plasma TV. I have a 3-4 year old 51" plasma that I measured at 150W peak with a Kill a Watt. I think the average was more like 125W. For the amount of TV we watch, that's about 35 cents worth of electricity a month.

Here in the land of abundant and cheap hydropower, our local PUD leadership is trying it's hardest to drive our rates up to match yours. Rate increases in recent years are consistently exceeding inflation and they keep taking on new projects where the *wholesale* cost of generated energy is equal to or higher than their current *retail* cost.

After seeing your reply I was curios so I did a search for plasma power consumption from 9/2016 to present day. One tv I found the specs on is a Panasonic 61" model VT60. I'm not sure but I remember hearing that Panasonic was the last maker of plasmas sets? Here are the ratings listed:

• Power SupplyAC 120 V, 60 Hz
• Screen Size Diagonal (inches)60.1
• On mode Average Power Consumption169 W
• Rated Power Consumption472 W
• Standby Power Consumption0.2 W
• Display Resolution1,920 (W) x 1,080 (H)
• Dimensions (W x H x D) (w/o stand)56.2" x 32.7" x 2.0" (General depth: 2.0")
• Dimensions (W x H x D) (with stand)56.2" x 36.1" x 12.2"
• Weight (w/o stand)TBD
• Weight (with stand)TBD
• Swivel Angle—
• Optional Wall BracketTY-WK5P1RW
• Operating Temperature32°F - 104°F (0°C - 40°C)
• Safety StandardUS: UL60065/FCC Parts15; CANADA: CSA C22,2/IC BETS-7
• VESA Compatible—
• Carton Dimensions (W x H x D)70.9" x 37.7" x 12.1"
• Gross Weight (with stand)119.1 lbs.
• Warranty
  
  
  I have no idea what the difference is between the on mode average power consumption and the rated power consumption is? Anyone?

 

[chimneyman]

Would love to see a number of utilities broken up and taken over by communities. There are many cities overseas that offer free wifi. There's no reason we shouldn't have it too. It's just our anti-government dogma that gets in the way. There are many things government can do well. Government can also be inefficient and corrupt. The fact that it can be inefficient and corrupt is not a reason to cut it out of the picture. We just have to be responsible for making sure our government agencies respond to citizen input.

We have an electric coop that provides electricity at a fully loaded cost of 11 cents/kwhr and rates have held steady for 5 years AND they buy from FPL here in Florida.