E-mail to VC about Everburn opperations

[BurningIsLove]

My latest experience (tonight) with the DW (it's a very positive one, Im happier that a pig in s##t), but it is also frustrating. To avoid the double post put it into the other DW non-cat thread:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/4188/

Mike, when I bought mine it was listed as 55,000BTU, but I do remember seeing a higher listing for the same stove from a different source when I bought it (dont think it was as high as 80,000 though). I don't purchase my stoves based on BTU's tho for the space I need to heat. Probably a small/medium DW of the same model would have been enough heat. I got the larger model since it had long advertised burn times which is what I wanted most and was the size I was accustomed to.

As for CAT vs NC, I dont think the industry was wrong to move to NC designs. One of the other users on this forum that I co-own a hydraulic splitter with has a Lopi Liberty (NC), and it works great. I had no problem getting a clean burn out of it the first time I used it. You also don't have to worry about over firing (or replacing an old) catalyst which I've seen several owners do accidentally. I just dont think that Vermont Casting's design for their proprietary NC system (the Everburn) was/is ready for prime-time. The placement of the everburn intake on the rear-bottom is I believe unique, or at the least not common from my experiences with other NC designs. Perhaps this system has advantages if you know how to use it, but I havent seen anyone from VC step up and say that were are doing anything wrong, or make any suggestions on what to do differently. The owners manual says nothing except telling you its not VC's fault if you burn down your house, and other users said they didnt have much like with their tech support, although admittedly I havent called them myself.

 

[elkimmeg]

Vc told me one has to rake the hot coals to the back near the ceramic s cast shoe not forward in most stoves To make the everburn work the dfaft and smoke is drawn down over the coals and super heated before it goes into the seconday combustion chamber it is also injected with pre heated primary air in the combustion chamber I was told the 1700 degrees happens in there burning smoke particulates like no other stove.

Mike Bang you head on the table some more one can use the 6" flue without the flue collar adapter IT can be accomplished by purchasing the round adapter From VC

Or purchasing an 8" oval to 6" round expensive adapter pipe about $75

Or 8" oval to round 8" then to a 8 to 6" reducer single gage pipe cost about $12

 

[BurningIsLove]

I've tried several different coal dispersion patterns, including those recommended by VC, and while having not enough coals is guaranteed not to work, I didnt find that having an even, front-heavy or back-heavy layer of coals made a huge difference. I always make sure that there are coals surrounding but not constricting the throat in the back. The everburn works only when the draft is optimal, and I would think that blockading the throat would impede draft.

Maybe this is a mistake? Comments?

 

[elkimmeg]

Burning I know you inspector attended the seminar I gave last year at Bridgewater State in March
I will not pass an insert or any stove without seeing that connection

are you telling me he missed that flue collar connection?
and mike you inspector missed that flue collar inspection?

I think that is the first thing I notice it is so important not to have vent leakage within the living space
Carbon Monoxide is so dangereous and leakage within the living space is not acceptable.I also check that all joints no crimping is vissiable

Mike an burning who installed your stoves?

 

[BurningIsLove]

My contractor who put up my garage/shop addition did all the installation work, including a simple hearth, flue pipe, and of course the chimney. They also attached the stove to the flue pipe according to the installation manual provided with the stove. The dealer I purchased the stove from had nothing to do with the installation.

I was present when the fire inspector was here, and his only concern was like most newer houses, it is over-insulated and too well sealed and could potentially cause dangerous gas buildup if a leak occured. I pointed out the stove proximity to the exterior french doors where one can actually see light coming in from underneath (who needs weather stripping?), as well as its proximity to the garage door which is open at least partially at all times when the stove is lit. those two sources provide a great deal of fresh air when the stove is operating he agreed and he signed off. I was not here for the building inspector examination.

I am still planning on upgrading to a double wall connector, however actually finding my contractor has been a 6 month, fruitless project. At that point I'll get it reinspected. I do have a CO detector near the stove and it has never gone off.

Elk, would value your comments on the above.

 

[Shane]

Elk, you cannot vent a catalytic XLG Dutchwest with 6". The 6" flue collar may physically fit but it is not an acceptable configuration for that stove. You can; as you pointed out; vent it into a 8x8 masonry chimney, but the connector requirement is very clear in that it has to be 8". I also called VC tech and talked to Pete just to double check myself. He confirmed that there is no way no how that 6" is acceptable on the XLG Catalytic Dutchwest.

 

[elkimmeg]

direct quote of what I asked at VC

I asked the head Engineer of VC if the defiant could be used with the 6” flue collar we would have asked about the XL cat DW

From there examining the output of the defiant and The XL DW I wondered if it had been tested I knew the flue collars were the same foot print.

I later supplied the contact info to confirm it

I will PM goose he was right there when I asked the question about the optional 6” flue collar option?

Want to confirm it yourself

Engineering Manager is Peter MacLeary 802 234-2383

I did explain if acceptable how one could accomplish the conversion from oval to 6" round.

I read it over and it does infere That my info made a case the XL cat DW was included for the allowed reduction I applogise. However it was confirmed for the Defiant

 

[Shane]

Defiant for sure can be necked down to 6" with the oval to 6" adapter. For some reason the DW Cat XLG is not able to do this. Maybe it will soon, just being tested or something?

 

[elkimmeg]

the Cat XL DW is certified till mid 2008 I doubt there will be any changes before that

 

[elkimmeg]

They also attached the stove to the flue pipe according to the installation manual provided with the stove.

All listings call the installation to be code compliant further the person doing the instalation shpuld know what the governing code are
Both the NFPA 211 and the International mechanical codes define proper joint connection as being a joint fully inserted wher no crimping is evident. first tell tale sign of the installer not knowing what he is doing is the first connection at the stove collar. Many pipe manufactures make a stove collar connector piece designed for that connection, Experienced installers and ones that know the code would be smart enouth to cut the crimped end so that the protruding rib is flush against the stove flue collar. The manufacture assumes the person installing the stove has knowledge of the aplicapable codes and remind the installation must be code complaint Seeing crimping at the collar is not code compliant.

In the state of Ma. a solid fuel afadivit is required. Stating that the installer installed the wood burning appliance to all aplicapable codes. You do have one?

Even in a new home a separate mechanical permit is required for a wood stove not only in MA but according to the international mechanical codes you do have one?

just because the fire dept walked threw for smoke detectors and passed the home for occupancy permit does mnot mean they inspected the stove if they did they would have also signed the mechanical permit taken out for that stove.

I'm not blaming you but a lot of assumptions were made the installer knew what he was doing you put your faith in his abilities any you received an occupancy permit.

This is what I do I'm a mechanical inspector it is my job to sign off on all mechanical issues and appliances in that home. The blame belongs to the installer he is the one that did not make the proper connection. non code compliant. That's my explanationThat's what I telling you. Your installer insure job security for me.

 

[mikeathens]

I installed my stove my self. And, like Burning, did it per the installation instructions - which only says to fasten with screws. I also poured over the chimney installation instructions, but that only coves down to the drip tube at the ceiling support. I'm not a code inspector (also, no code where I live out on my 85 acres), but I have installed several chimneys and had building inspector, chimney installer, and dealer all see my installation. No one commented on the connections. I am glad to get advice on it on this page - I know now and will always pay attention to that connection point form now on.

Also, I never noted much difference in performace whether I had 5" of coals raked to the back or 2" (per operating instructions). Now, on the other hand, this morning, I had my Hearthstone fired up and producing no visible emissions within 10 minutes of relaod. I know that emissions for my new stove are rated about double what the DW NC is, but it is consistent, predictable, and easy to get good results. I suspect that overall, my efficiency is higher and emissions lower that the DW NC. Besides, double nothing is still nothing - I don't see any smoke from my chimney at all with the heritage. I don't know why the DW wasn't just made with burn tubes or secondary in the top of the stove. Seems to make more sense having the secondary combustion in an area of the stove where flames keep everything hot all of the time. The "superheating of the smoke" by coals ain't doin it...