Dutchwest Cast non-cat stoves..... Please shed some light...
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Dumbfishguy said:
Yeah, expect one year or more to get to know your DW non-cat. What kind of stack do you have, masonry or metal? If its metal, you'll draft much quicker than w/ masonry. And on the downdraft design, drafting condition (outside air temp/pressure, stack height, setup of your stack, etc.) is more crucial than anything. Probably a tie w/ the quality of your seasoned cord wood. Unless you have a near perfect setup, it wont draft well enough for secondary combustion above 40 degrees.
i have about 19-20 foot metal straight up chimney... mine drafts very well, even when the air control is all the way down it still draws nicely!
it will take me some getting used to... but so far i've only closed the dampener once and it was last night...
i don't know if the ever burn worked or not... i didn't have her loaded full with wood when i closed it for the night...but for atleast the 1 hr i was awake the fire was glowing brightly with a few flames shooting out every so often...it didn't smolder out and it didn't seem to be smokin
it burned out sometime in the middle of the night, i would think if i loaded to the the top it would burn all night...
one thing i noticed is the flue temps dropped to 275-300 right before i fell asleep.... it seemd to hover there for a while
whats your flue temps when the everburn is going>?
it will take me some getting used to... but so far i've only closed the dampener once and it was last night...
i don't know if the ever burn worked or not... i didn't have her loaded full with wood when i closed it for the night...but for atleast the 1 hr i was awake the fire was glowing brightly with a few flames shooting out every so often...it didn't smolder out and it didn't seem to be smokin
it burned out sometime in the middle of the night, i would think if i loaded to the the top it would burn all night...
one thing i noticed is the flue temps dropped to 275-300 right before i fell asleep.... it seemd to hover there for a while
whats your flue temps when the everburn is going>?
Was there still to-be-burned fuel burning at the time you recorded the 275-300 temps? Did you happen to visually inspect the emissions coming out of the stack after closing the bypass? It's difficult to say without more information whether you truly had achieved secondary combustion.
Typically in optimum conditions with a firebox of active splits, proper coal bed, etc., I see flue gas temps of 1200+ when secondary combustion occurs properly. There are only two occasions when I see temps as low as 300 with the bypass closed. The first is when all the fuel has been spent, and there are just coals burning out. As there is nothing to reburn and no fuel to burn, its basically just dying out. Normally in winter I'd have reloaded before then so I wouldnt have to bring everything back up to temp before expecting secondary combustion.
The second is what we've documented as the 'everburn stall'. This is where you have plenty of splits in the firebox w/ the bypass open and the stove is up to temp, the splits properly burning, coal bed deep enough, etc. You then close the bypass to begin secondary combustion, but it only lasts for 10-15 seconds before the flue gas temp drops rapidly from 1100+ down to 300-400. You see the occasional flame in the firebox, but not very much. The visible emissions coming out of the stack will quickly go from virtually non-existent to dark & generally unclean and the velocity will also drop off drastically. This is because the stove did not draft properly for a variety of reasons and 'stalled' out. The temps were far too low to achieve secondary combustion, hence the dirty emissions from the stack.
The best thing to do at this point is to open the bypass and re-examine your fire while the temps are climbing, splits are catching again, etc. There are numerous threads that you can read up on that discuss how to properly make 'everburn' work. In short, proper fuel, sufficient coal bed & orientation, splits coaled sufficiently, and favorable outdoor conditions for drafting are essential else it WILL stall. You'll have a long 'burn' time, but basically your fire will be smoldering and its creosote central in your stack.
Typically in optimum conditions with a firebox of active splits, proper coal bed, etc., I see flue gas temps of 1200+ when secondary combustion occurs properly. There are only two occasions when I see temps as low as 300 with the bypass closed. The first is when all the fuel has been spent, and there are just coals burning out. As there is nothing to reburn and no fuel to burn, its basically just dying out. Normally in winter I'd have reloaded before then so I wouldnt have to bring everything back up to temp before expecting secondary combustion.
The second is what we've documented as the 'everburn stall'. This is where you have plenty of splits in the firebox w/ the bypass open and the stove is up to temp, the splits properly burning, coal bed deep enough, etc. You then close the bypass to begin secondary combustion, but it only lasts for 10-15 seconds before the flue gas temp drops rapidly from 1100+ down to 300-400. You see the occasional flame in the firebox, but not very much. The visible emissions coming out of the stack will quickly go from virtually non-existent to dark & generally unclean and the velocity will also drop off drastically. This is because the stove did not draft properly for a variety of reasons and 'stalled' out. The temps were far too low to achieve secondary combustion, hence the dirty emissions from the stack.
The best thing to do at this point is to open the bypass and re-examine your fire while the temps are climbing, splits are catching again, etc. There are numerous threads that you can read up on that discuss how to properly make 'everburn' work. In short, proper fuel, sufficient coal bed & orientation, splits coaled sufficiently, and favorable outdoor conditions for drafting are essential else it WILL stall. You'll have a long 'burn' time, but basically your fire will be smoldering and its creosote central in your stack.
there were 2-3 red glowing logs in the firebox... it never smoldered out though... kept going i assume till it was all gone...
lets put it this way... if the flue temps actually hit 1100 degrees i need to get more wall protection
at 450-500 the walls are freaking hot...i'm about 17-18 inches away from the wall to the edge of my stove pipe
i've never seen my flue temps over 500-525
lets put it this way... if the flue temps actually hit 1100 degrees i need to get more wall protection
at 450-500 the walls are freaking hot...i'm about 17-18 inches away from the wall to the edge of my stove pipe
i've never seen my flue temps over 500-525
TB,
I believe that 17-18" is too close. I hope the pros can chime in on this....
1100 deg. mentioned is internal flue temp. With the everburn working properly you should see external/magnetic pipe temp between 400-550*
I believe that 17-18" is too close. I hope the pros can chime in on this....
1100 deg. mentioned is internal flue temp. With the everburn working properly you should see external/magnetic pipe temp between 400-550*
trailblaze said:there were 2-3 red glowing logs in the firebox... it never smoldered out though... kept going i assume till it was all gone...
lets put it this way... if the flue temps actually hit 1100 degrees i need to get more wall protection
at 450-500 the walls are freaking hot...i'm about 17-18 inches away from the wall to the edge of my stove pipe
i've never seen my flue temps over 500-525
I should have asked this before....are you measuring your flu w/ a surface or probe thermometer? The temps I was referring to were w/ a probe thermometer, so actually measuring the flu gas vs. the temperature of your wall pipe. I also have a magnetic (surface) thermometer on my single wall pipe. The flue gas temp is typically magnetic temp * 2.5, so at 300 degrees magnetic, flu gas is 750 as an approximate for comparison.
if you have a probe and are getting max temps of 500, then you arent running the stove hot enough to get secondary combustion. Non-cats need minimum of 1100 to achieve secondary combustion. 500F for a magnetic is close to the minimum.
Keep in mind that even during what I refer to as a 'stall', the fire doesn't go out. The logs will still be glowing as some primary combustion is occurring in the firebox. But when my flu gas drops below 900, typically the stack emissions start to become black & slow. Check your emissions w/ a flashlight (if night time) at the top of the stack. If you see nothing but distortions from heat or a little white steam, then you're in good shape. If you see dark smoke, grey/black or generally unpleasant looking, then you are building up creosote at an alarming level in your stack most likely.
Are you hearing a faint rumbling sounds coming from the back of the stove? That rumble is the sound of secondary combustion occurring, it can be quite loud with a fully loaded firebox, even w/ the primary air supply dampered all the way down. You should also see the occasional 'explosion' in the firebox if you have a glass front stove. The gases will build up in the top of the firebox w/ the bypass closed, and then occasional reach a critical mass and ignite. It's normally a slow, rolling ignition of flame that isnt attached to/touched any of the splits. I think it's quite beautiful & mesmerizing, not just for its obvious beauty, but its also a sign that my stove is happy and burning optimally.
In general, it's better to run the stove 'less efficiently' with the bypass open, dampered down, and small amount of visible emissions than it is to close the bypass and let it cool off which produces creosote & an unclean burn.
I'm not a pro - but I do wonder - did you follow the clearances in your manual? Was this install permitted and/or inspected?
As for those temps - there are other variables as well, like how high up the flue you are measuring from. Your best indicators of secondary combustion are the "everburn rumble" which can always be heard if you stick your ear up to the secondary combustion air intake (bottom rear of stove), and of course emissions (i.e. if its working you will see no smoke). I demonstrate both of these in my videos (links at the bottom of my webpage).
As for those temps - there are other variables as well, like how high up the flue you are measuring from. Your best indicators of secondary combustion are the "everburn rumble" which can always be heard if you stick your ear up to the secondary combustion air intake (bottom rear of stove), and of course emissions (i.e. if its working you will see no smoke). I demonstrate both of these in my videos (links at the bottom of my webpage).
Diabel said:
i am using a magnetic stove pipe thermometer.... right now it's 350 ish... dampener open... i am actually affraid to close it and raise the flue temps without a stove pipe shield or double wall pipe... my wall is to the point where i can't hold my hand on it for more than 3-5secs with-out saying ouch.... it's 98 f'in degrees in my room right now...
i really can't help but think "what the f was i thinking".... how am i going to "live" in this sweat box of a living room right now....
i hope it snows sooon so i can go outside and make snow men every min that my stove in blazing
i really can't help but think "what the f was i thinking".... how am i going to "live" in this sweat box of a living room right now....
i hope it snows sooon so i can go outside and make snow men every min that my stove in blazing
hang some tin foil on the wall behind the pipe for the time being. Ther will bounce some of the heat away till this is over tonight.
By the way it is good to know that lil stove of yours can crank the heat!
By the way it is good to know that lil stove of yours can crank the heat!
i am close to within clearences...
no protection is (corner install) 15 1/2 inches from corner of stove... i'm at... 18.5 on the right and 14.75 on the left...
so i'm about 1 inch too close for non-protected walls...
i'm watching it.... i need to fix this so i can leave it un-attended....
right off dry wall.... can you screw 1/2 cement board on and then tile it??
i'm thinking wall protection right now... i know i said previously i wanted a shield but.... i'd rather fall on the safe side
oh and there are no codes i need to follow per the county and fire marshal's... nor my homeowners policy... it all falls onto the recommended directions
no protection is (corner install) 15 1/2 inches from corner of stove... i'm at... 18.5 on the right and 14.75 on the left...
so i'm about 1 inch too close for non-protected walls...
i'm watching it.... i need to fix this so i can leave it un-attended....
right off dry wall.... can you screw 1/2 cement board on and then tile it??
i'm thinking wall protection right now... i know i said previously i wanted a shield but.... i'd rather fall on the safe side
oh and there are no codes i need to follow per the county and fire marshal's... nor my homeowners policy... it all falls onto the recommended directions
according to my owners man...
top exit, flue collar and heat shield with double wall pipe lowers it to 7 1/2 in to combustible wall
if i just added the heat shield.... i should at least gain 2-3 inches and fall below my recommended clearances....
if i do wall protections as durock right on drywall i should still be safe.... i plan on adding shielding the pipes... and then something else like wall protection or new pipe...
top exit, flue collar and heat shield with double wall pipe lowers it to 7 1/2 in to combustible wall
if i just added the heat shield.... i should at least gain 2-3 inches and fall below my recommended clearances....
if i do wall protections as durock right on drywall i should still be safe.... i plan on adding shielding the pipes... and then something else like wall protection or new pipe...
trailblaze said:
Yes you can go up a wall and shoot in some durock, cement board might be better and tile over it woud look nice too. If you can install a stove your self you can tile a wall. Dummys like me do it every now and then and people like how it looks. You will be good at it by the time this is over. About $90 - $200 and you can get it done depending on the tile you use.
I think you got the right idea, double wall pipe and the wall protection changes the situation from "probably safe" to plain old safe.
for now if you have tin foil handy hang it in a manner that it is about and inch from the walls. tack it to the wall since you are gonna cover them later anyway and fold a bit of foil under the hanging foil to make hang a tad away so you can at least go to bed tonight.
trailblaze said:
I was surprised how small the UL clearances are for this stove. Mine is close to the wall (cement board) and the wall gets warm above the point where the through-wall connector is (horizontal exit obviously). But behind the stove where the secondary combustion chamber is, the wall is barely warm at all. I think DW did a great job w/ the "built in" shield on the back that houses the vents for the blower kit & the such. Adds a lot of thermal protection.
I'm upgrading to a double wall pipe (retrofitting current design) this year b4 the season gets going. Even though the fire marshal signed off on the single wall, I'm still uncomfortable with the heated pipe in the wall and how hot it can get after several days on continual use.
And yes, it's amazing how much heat this stove throws out. My living room can easily get to 90+ if the house is all closed up. I keep the garage door open, which is next to the stove. Let's in a lot of fresh air to feed the stove, and keeps the garage toasty warm (above 55) in the winter. I also crack some strategic windows in the living room to increase convection currents and heat the rest of the house and provide more fresh air as well.
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Med vs. Large and a few other questions
It seams that most of the complaint's about the duchwest everburn have come from the large model? I have a medium ( bought in 2008 but I think it is the 2007 model ) and it works great. I have had no prob with the everburn system so far. I am still working on my burn times though. Last night was my best, I loaded up after the Pats game ended, around 7 and I still had some red coals at 1 am ( still not the 10 hour burn time advertised). One prob I did have - I turned the air intake all the way down before bed and when it burned out it blackened by glass. I can't imagine it was pumping carousal into my chimney since it was just coals at that time but the temp came down enough at the end of the burn to blacken my glass. Any ideas on what to do about this.
Is this a stove that I just can't turn all the way down? Also what is the best thing to clean the glass, Windex?
It seams that most of the complaint's about the duchwest everburn have come from the large model? I have a medium ( bought in 2008 but I think it is the 2007 model ) and it works great. I have had no prob with the everburn system so far. I am still working on my burn times though. Last night was my best, I loaded up after the Pats game ended, around 7 and I still had some red coals at 1 am ( still not the 10 hour burn time advertised). One prob I did have - I turned the air intake all the way down before bed and when it burned out it blackened by glass. I can't imagine it was pumping carousal into my chimney since it was just coals at that time but the temp came down enough at the end of the burn to blacken my glass. Any ideas on what to do about this.
Is this a stove that I just can't turn all the way down? Also what is the best thing to clean the glass, Windex?
I had mine installed DUH dumbfish guy , My walls are cold behind stove I have the vc heat shield in place A little warm up the stack Ill keep checking
Dumbfishguy said:
corner install? my walls right behind my shield are in the 90's then jump into the 140's where my side's are, mine is a mostly corner install
BeGreen said:
Sorry, I have to say that mine are no more quirkey and difficult than my F500 or Englander. some people just cross thread lightbulbs, and have ahrd time with the right end of a screwdriver.
trailblaze said:
I love my douchewest medium, you have problems with yours? ILL bet you dont. yep the left sides a hollatacker sometimes
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