Dual sided fireplace issues?

[enigmablaze]

I grew up with a wood stove as basically the only heat. I never thought of it as fun, but it was warm in the stove room, and that's where we spent our time. My husband grew up with a big fireplace, and he had sentimental memories of it. When we bought our house, we were glad for a masonry fireplace in the walkout basement. I think it took perhaps just one winter of our living here to realize that the basement was too cold to be comfortable in winter without a space heater. We did do pretty radical insulating and airsealing, but we decided that the fireplace was a contributor to the cold. We installed a wood insert and have both loved it.

My husband took a little while to adjust from fireplace burning mentality to stove burning. He wanted to open the door, poke at the logs, add a split here and there ... Now he's really come to appreciate the heat cycle of wood burning and would never go back to a fireplace. He also just appreciates the really solid heat. We've had a big cold snap here, and he didn't have time to stoke the fire this morning, but our basement was still warmer than our main floor. Upon waking, the kids immediately go down there to play (legos this morning) and to enjoy the stove. They love the fire. (In an hour, I had the big basement room up to 80 because everybody wanted to warm up.)

Growing up, I never thought wood stoves were fun. They just were. With our insert, I think the stove is fun. I like tending it during the day. (I also love to process wood, so that helps.). My husband and enjoy our down time at the end of the day by loading a big (or as big as it gets in our medium-sized insert) load before bed. It's our time to talk together about our days, about our kids, make plans, etc. We enjoy the heat and find the secondary burn on our tube stove quite mesmerizing. A wood stove is different from a fireplace, but yes, with the modern glass front, a wood stove can be fun. (I know our insert has an optional screen for the front to make it operate like a fireplace. My husband was drawn to that when we bought the stove, but we didn't buy it and thought we could get it later if we wanted it. With the glass front (and ours is a pretty small glass front comparatively), we've never felt the need.)

We picked our fireplace insert a bit more on practicality than on aesthetics (though neither of us wanted something that we didn't like aesthetically), but there are some stunning stoves on the market. If you do start thinking about stoves, the good folks here on this forum will give you lots of options and information. If you post floor plans or pictures and dimensions and things, they'll even start designing for you.

Oh my goodness, this is so helpful...thank you for taking the time to type it all (and I'll happily take any other experience anecdotes you have!). Your husband's transition is exactly the issue I'm wondering about, my hubby likes to poke and arrange and add wood and fuss with fires...I think he could really learn to appreciate the technicality of a stove burn but it is a tricky leap to take in case he doesn't like it. If your basement was heated with central air would your husband still prefer the stove/insert? I'm trying to figure how much the heating plays into why people love stoves, or if it's also the "art of the burn" in them .

 

[enigmablaze]

I love an open fireplace, I use mine every weekend. I live in a 1950’s cape. My damper closes tight and I have glass doors which stay shut when it’s not in use. I can keep my living room very comfortable with the fireplace. I light the fire then turn off my furnace and crack a window, the house is already relatively warm, though maybe a bit chilly before I light the fire. The other rooms do cool down but I spend my time in the room with the fireplace so I really don’t care. I use a fireback and a grate that allows me to burn some very big pieces of wood, usually oak. The fireplace isn’t too deep. After a pile of coals form a lot of heat is thrown but it requires lots of wood and some time. When I’m done playing with the fireplace I let the fire die down, close the glass doors then turn the furnace back on. Getting the wood takes work but I have woods across the street and I enjoy the effort.

The wood I use during one weekend with a fireplace would easily heat my home for a week if I had a wood stove. I’ve played with fireplaces and wood stoves almost my entire life but too many modifications are required in my current home’s fireplace to install a free standing stove. Maybe an insert someday. A wood stove can also heat up a cold home relatively quickly, at least the room it is in. If I lost power and the house really got cold I couldn’t imagine how long it would take for my fireplace to heat up the living room, though I’m sure it eventually would but forget about the rest of the house.

I think you would be happy with an alcove on the outside wall with a nice stove with a ceramic glass door. My father’s Jodul is beautiful to watch burn and heats most of the first floor.

Our situation sounds very similar, right down to the 1950's cape! What you described ("When I’m done playing with the fireplace I let the fire die down, close the glass doors then turn the furnace back on") sounds exactly like what I expected would be our situation. My hubby is an enthusiast but doesn't have tons of time or inclination *I don't think* for full-time burning or using it for primary heat. Our house is so small heating it with the furnace is really not a big deal...however I could also easily see him really getting into it and using it every day as our heat. A Jotul is one of my favorite stoves, along with Morso...this is probably a totally stupid question, but do you get a similar fire "ambiance" from the stove (things like the crackling sounds etc.) as a fireplace? I almost think of them like quiet boxes spewing heat out of a blower...like an electric stove (which I have btw...tried to scratch the itch in a cheap way, didn't work too well )?

If you could rebuild your fireplace from scratch (money aside) would you stick with the open fireplace or would you do a stove or insert? It sounds like your priorities are similar to my hubby, so just curious

 

[enigmablaze]

I mean by code you cannot install a wood burning fireplace or stove for that matter in a bed room

Possibly a stupid question...if you did the pre-fab masonry fire rock dual-sided fireplace sharing a wall between a living room and bedroom (technically)...is it possible to seal off the bedroom side entirely with glass, hence not technically having the wood-burner in the bedroom (sounds shady even as I type it ) and also eliminating the dual-sided issues of draft etc. which still allowing a view of the fire from the bedroom?

 

[enigmablaze]

If aesthetics are primary, then going with a double glass pain fireplace is fine. It is an art form then. No problem (but note: most responders here are fixated mostly on generating heat, not art ... ergo most of the replies you had so far (Chum Stains being an notable exception trying to help with both issues)). Then you only need to control for heat loss. Do this by either (A) cranking up your thermostat a little bit on your main heating source when you have the fire burning, or (B) consider installing a heat exchanger system in your house so that the air drawn by the fire is being heated as it is coming into the house. Just "google" for home heat exchangers for options (they also nicely reduce your Radon Gas issues in your home if you have that problem).

Also, as another idea, for a "panoramic fire view" have you considered something like:

(broken link removed to http://morsoe.com/us/indoor/products/wall-mounted/morsoe-7970-wallhung)

or

(broken link removed to http://morsoe.com/us/indoor/products/wall-mounted/morsoe-7948-on-and-elegant-pedestal)

View attachment 192064

I'd say right in the middle is where we'd land, I'm interested in aesthetics and ambiance, hubs is interested in technical combustions and nostalgia and ambiance.
I don't understand how a heat exchanger system would work...guess I need to get to work learning!

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Oh my goodness, this is so helpful...thank you for taking the time to type it all (and I'll happily take any other experience anecdotes you have!). Your husband's transition is exactly the issue I'm wondering about, my hubby likes to poke and arrange and add wood and fuss with fires...I think he could really learn to appreciate the technicality of a stove burn but it is a tricky leap to take in case he doesn't like it. If your basement was heated with central air would your husband still prefer the stove/insert? I'm trying to figure how much the heating plays into why people love stoves, or if it's also the "art of the burn" in them .

You're welcome. Your husband sounded like mine, which is what prompted me to write.

We do have central heat (natural gas) and air conditioning. Our thermostat is pretty centrally located on the main floor, and we tend to keep it at 68. Before we had the wood insert, the downstairs was just chilly (64 maybe) even with the furnace operating. It's almost half of our living space, and we did want it more comfortable. Our motivation for getting the stove was heat, and we do appreciate it for that. We get lots of heat and can even overheat the downstairs if we try. We bought the stove intending to use it just to keep the chill out of the downstairs, but we've evolved into full-time burners, even heating our main floor (with the furnace to take up slack if necessary). I will not deny that we like having our house warmer than it would be if we solely used the natural gas, but there is definitely a satisfaction in "the art of the burn" as you say. I'm not sure that we can completely separate the two issues.

I don't know your husband, of course, but my hunch is that he could get some good burning satisfaction from a stove or zero-clearance fireplace (I don't know much about those, but I wonder if that would be a good option on that interior wall you talked about in your first post). If the appliance actually heats, you may be more likely to use it, and so that's a lot of opportunity to start fire (he could learn the top-down method if he doesn't already know it and get lots of satisfaction right there). Our insert lets us choose between North-South (ends facing the front door) and East-West loading (sides facing the front door), and there's lots of opportunity to learn characteristics there. There's the art of loading just the right amount of wood to get the heat you want or to time your burn so that you have the coal bed you want for your next reload or overnight burn. If you're having a snowy day at home, you can treat it more like a fireplace and rake a big pile of coals and add a split on top just to let that burn.

I did ask my husband if he would ever want to go back to an open fireplace in a different house and he pretty quickly said "no." He says he appreciates the engineering of the stove and gets plenty of satisfaction tending our fires (even though I do it more).

Right now it's time to go stoke the fire and play a round of Uno in front of it while we adjust the air control just where we want it. It really is a lot of fun. (And I'm really not actually trying to push you toward a stove; I just thought our experience could help answer your questions. I do wonder if a zero-clearance fireplace would be good in your situation, but I have so little knowledge of those that I can't say.)

 

[Destructor]

Enigmablaze, you do get the crackling with a stove but it is a bit muffled. The glass on the Jodul stays relatively clean. My father uses his Jodul more like an older traditional stove. He doesn't cut down the air to slow the burn and often just lets it go out at the end of the night. The stove is small so it usually doesn't over heat a room but will heat most of the first floor if he lights it early in the day. The air intake seems to be set up in such a way that it seldom overfires. His house is also a 50's cape but the stove is in an addition off to the side. The house is smallish, tight and insulated where it counts, so the stove is used only as supplemental heat. The original fireplace is still intact.

My fireplace has a very nice wood mantle that I put alot of effort into finishing. That's why I don't want to modify it to get the clearances a stove would require.

If I were to build a fireplace from scratch I would construct the firebox/throat and mantle in such a way that a future stove could be put inside and the flue easily run up the chimney.

One of my pyro nights.

 

[St. Coemgen]

Alas a gas one would be way easier for install but the wood burning is absolute #1 on the hubby's list. He just misses it.

You are really sweet taking into account your hubby's wish list. After I bought my tractor, my wife saw how much fun I had with it. Hydrolics -- a guy thing -- hard to explain. But the basic idea was not lost on my wife who said she would have encouraged me to buy a tractor sooner if she knew how much joy it gave me.

So, maybe a compromise. A nice gas fire pit indoors (simplicity with elegant aesthetics), and a manly wood burning/cooking/firepit stove outdoors. Maybe one like this:



or



What guy would not agree?

 

[ernie]

Adding my two cents worth to this conversation, but I am in the fireplace shop and I highly discourage two-sided wood-burning fireplaces also. I had heard too many stories of smoking up the house with them. However there are a couple that you might want to consider, there was one made by our RSF and one by Valcourt which could burn with the doors closed. What is the essential part of making a two-sided work, being able to burn closed.

 

[enigmablaze]

You're welcome. Your husband sounded like mine, which is what prompted me to write.

We do have central heat (natural gas) and air conditioning. Our thermostat is pretty centrally located on the main floor, and we tend to keep it at 68. Before we had the wood insert, the downstairs was just chilly (64 maybe) even with the furnace operating. It's almost half of our living space, and we did want it more comfortable. Our motivation for getting the stove was heat, and we do appreciate it for that. We get lots of heat and can even overheat the downstairs if we try. We bought the stove intending to use it just to keep the chill out of the downstairs, but we've evolved into full-time burners, even heating our main floor (with the furnace to take up slack if necessary). I will not deny that we like having our house warmer than it would be if we solely used the natural gas, but there is definitely a satisfaction in "the art of the burn" as you say. I'm not sure that we can completely separate the two issues.

I don't know your husband, of course, but my hunch is that he could get some good burning satisfaction from a stove or zero-clearance fireplace (I don't know much about those, but I wonder if that would be a good option on that interior wall you talked about in your first post). If the appliance actually heats, you may be more likely to use it, and so that's a lot of opportunity to start fire (he could learn the top-down method if he doesn't already know it and get lots of satisfaction right there). Our insert lets us choose between North-South (ends facing the front door) and East-West loading (sides facing the front door), and there's lots of opportunity to learn characteristics there. There's the art of loading just the right amount of wood to get the heat you want or to time your burn so that you have the coal bed you want for your next reload or overnight burn. If you're having a snowy day at home, you can treat it more like a fireplace and rake a big pile of coals and add a split on top just to let that burn.

I did ask my husband if he would ever want to go back to an open fireplace in a different house and he pretty quickly said "no." He says he appreciates the engineering of the stove and gets plenty of satisfaction tending our fires (even though I do it more).

Right now it's time to go stoke the fire and play a round of Uno in front of it while we adjust the air control just where we want it. It really is a lot of fun. (And I'm really not actually trying to push you toward a stove; I just thought our experience could help answer your questions. I do wonder if a zero-clearance fireplace would be good in your situation, but I have so little knowledge of those that I can't say.)

This is so helpful...I had mostly forgotten about the zero-clearance high efficiency fireplaces until you mentioned them!..I did find these (http://renaissancefireplaces.com/en/rumford-1500-woodburning-fireplace) and my hubby REALLY likes the look/idea of them so far. Does this look like it would be a good idea? I know my eyes are so inexperienced I don't see the pitfalls until you lovely folks point them out for me!

Due largely to this forum he is also becoming very interested in stoves. We have a back room that is largely uninsulated and a perfect spot for a small wood stove...definitely considering doing both if the budget could possibly afford it!

 

[enigmablaze]

Enigmablaze, you do get the crackling with a stove but it is a bit muffled. The glass on the Jodul stays relatively clean. My father uses his Jodul more like an older traditional stove. He doesn't cut down the air to slow the burn and often just lets it go out at the end of the night. The stove is small so it usually doesn't over heat a room but will heat most of the first floor if he lights it early in the day. The air intake seems to be set up in such a way that it seldom overfires. His house is also a 50's cape but the stove is in an addition off to the side. The house is smallish, tight and insulated where it counts, so the stove is used only as supplemental heat. The original fireplace is still intact.

My fireplace has a very nice wood mantle that I put alot of effort into finishing. That's why I don't want to modify it to get the clearances a stove would require.

If I were to build a fireplace from scratch I would construct the firebox/throat and mantle in such a way that a future stove could be put inside and the flue easily run up the chimney.

One of my pyro nights.

It's beautiful, no wonder you don't want to change it!

 

[enigmablaze]

You are really sweet taking into account your hubby's wish list. After I bought my tractor, my wife saw how much fun I had with it. Hydrolics -- a guy thing -- hard to explain. But the basic idea was not lost on my wife who said she would have encouraged me to buy a tractor sooner if she knew how much joy it gave me.

So, maybe a compromise. A nice gas fire pit indoors (simplicity with elegant aesthetics), and a manly wood burning/cooking/firepit stove outdoors.

Haha those were quite impressive! We did put a small fire pit outdoors, he likes it for summers but our midwestern winters are SO brutal it kinda loses its appeal Haha, I appreciate that, I really want him to be happy with the end result, I'm trying to find anything I can that I think he'll like. When we were looking for our first house (which we have no desire to leave years and years later) it's one of the ONLY things he asked for and while we adore our humble little house, it has always been something we've wanted to change.

 

[enigmablaze]

Adding my two cents worth to this conversation, but I am in the fireplace shop and I highly discourage two-sided wood-burning fireplaces also. I had heard too many stories of smoking up the house with them. However there are a couple that you might want to consider, there was one made by our RSF and one by Valcourt which could burn with the doors closed. What is the essential part of making a two-sided work, being able to burn closed.

I told hubby about what you said here, about the smoking up the house...that would be awful, totally not what we want. This is primarily not just for looks, it is to be seriously used after all (even though not necessarily for primary heat). I'm so thankful to have you guys to help guide us here. With your expertise do you think something like this would operate well? http://renaissancefireplaces.com/en/rumford-1500-woodburning-fireplace