Dual sided fireplace issues?

[enigmablaze]

Hello lovely, wise folks! I need some experienced advice.

At long last, we are REALLY trying to finally add the wood burning fireplace my husband has wanted since we bought this house, we are having a hard time finding a place in the house to put it where the pipe etc. isn't a problem. The best place we have would lend itself perfectly to being a dual-sided fireplace as one side would be in our living room and the other side in our den. We have a small house with small rooms and putting it in the wall between two rooms also "shares" the size of it between two rooms and keeps the bulk of it from taking up a huge portion of one room.

The issue is, I spoke with our local shop today (the fellow is not terribly helpful, I get the idea he doesn't want to deal with us) and he told me that dual-sided fireplaces draft badly and he hates them. The one I've been eyeing (if we can swing it) is the Fire Rock See-Through or something like it (I don't know if Fire Rock is a good name or not, just liked the idea) http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Firep...gineered-See-Through-Masonry-Fireplace-System

Is this really a bad idea? The man I spoke with today almost exclusively does direct-vent gas fireplaces and doesn't even install wood any more so I don't know if he's biased or correct. My husband really loves the idea but if he can't make a good blaze in it without smoke etc. in the rooms I would hate to spend all that money and regret our decision .

 

[Chum Stains]

Welcome to The Forum, is this double-sided fireplace you desire something you are looking to use for supplemental heat? Or Pur Aesthetics and Aviance?

The fireplace you attached looks like a very inefficient way to supply Heat to your house.. There are not a lot of options on the market for efficient double-sided fireplace, I searched high and low a few years ago.. I finally decided to go with Supreme duet, and couldn't be happier for a focal point and heating standpoint for my house.. Tonight it is going down into the twenties and I have her cranked up and the house is 73 degrees.. Attached is my build from start to finish, you may find it interesting and helpful..https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-2-sided-supreme-duet.129420/page-3#post-2139519

if you could please let me know the square footage and described the layout of the two rooms and the overall first floor that you are planning on installing a double-sided fireplace..

 

[bholler]

The issue is, I spoke with our local shop today (the fellow is not terribly helpful, I get the idea he doesn't want to deal with us) and he told me that dual-sided fireplaces draft badly and he hates them.

The problem is he is being helpfull by telling you the truth.

 

[enigmablaze]

Chum, thank you! And great question, I should have thought to mention...this is NOT primarily for heating per se...I mean I don't want to lose heat with it and certainly some extra heat would be welcome but the house has central heating so that's not its main purpose. It's main purpose is so my husband can build big fires and enjoy them like he did when he was growing up. Aesthetics are important to me, but safety and function (ie. not smoking up the house) is more important. Their fireplace when he was young was a huge stone thing...huge. I'm afraid the metal prefab fireplaces might be insufficient for the type of healthy blaze he prefers...
The living room on one side is about 11'x17', then den on the other side is about 11'x12'.

...something I just thought of...the den is technically one of the bedrooms and may be used as one in the future, will I have any issues since technically it would be a fireplace installed in a bedroom?

I'm off to peruse your link!

 

[bholler]

will I have any issues since technically it would be a fireplace installed in a bedroom?

Yes you cant do that. I can all but guarantee that you are going to loose heat from the house by burning a double sided fireplace. It is just going to suck a massive amount of air to make it work. I understand the appeal of them but in reality they typically don't work to well and if they do they suck out massive amounts of heated air

 

[enigmablaze]

The problem is he is being helpfull by telling you the truth.

bholler, can you explain what you mean? I fully understand I am a great novice at this, that's why I'm asking for help! I respect our local guy's opinion certainly, but he told me he has never installed a fireplace like this so I am trying to ascertain the truth about them.

Yes you cant do that. I can all but guarantee that you are going to loose heat from the house by burning a double sided fireplace. It is just going to suck a massive amount of air to make it work. I understand the appeal of them but in reality they typically don't work to well and if they do they suck out massive amounts of heated air

By "can't" do you mean code-wise it is not allowed or just the fact that it could loose heat?
Also, the info with this fireplace says "Outside air source is reccommended to be utilized with this product to ensure adequate source of combustion and ventilation air"...I can't say I know what this would entail exactly but would this solve the heat-stealing problem? It also says "To ensure a UL‐127 compliant installation and to reduce the risk of smoke spillage, a set of glass or ceramic fireplace enclosure doors MUST be installed on one or both sides of the fireplace."

Thank you for your expertise

 

[bholler]

By "can't" do you mean code-wise it is not allowed or just the fact that it could loose heat?

I mean by code you cannot install a wood burning fireplace or stove for that matter in a bed room

 

[enigmablaze]

if you could please let me know the square footage and described the layout of the two rooms and the overall first floor that you are planning on installing a double-sided fireplace..

Our house is a 1950's 1-1/2 story cape cod...really small. The first floor is maybe...700-800sq ft. The two rooms are right next to each other and there's another tiny (seriously like 9x11) bedroom nearby, teeeeensy bathroom and a kitchen on the other side. There's a back room that's somewhat closed off that is its own heating problem but it is not near where this fireplace would go at all...it is a great candidate for a tiny stove.

 

[Chum Stains]

Sounds like with the layout of your house and the rooms you are trying to split with a double sided fireplace the Supreme duet would be a little big and most likely overheat you, unless you have a way to attach remote ducts and pump the heat to other rooms and circulate the air throughout the house?

 

[begreen]

The Supreme Duet was what came to my mind as I read this thread, but given the size of the home I would suggest dropping the dual-sided fireplace plan. It will not only be a lot of heat but this installation would take up a lot of valuable floor space. As an alternative maybe consider an attractive freestanding wood stove instead that is sized to the home? It can be set on a good looking hearth with a stone or brick backdrop for ambiance if desired.

http://www.supremem.com/duet.php

 

[enigmablaze]

The Supreme Duet was what came to my mind as I read this thread, but given the size of the home I would suggest dropping the dual-sided fireplace plan. It will not only be a lot of heat but this installation would take up a lot of valuable floor space. As an alternative maybe consider an attractive freestanding wood stove instead that is sized to the home? It can be set on a good looking hearth with a stone or brick backdrop for ambiance if desired.

http://www.supremem.com/duet.php

I love the Morso stoves, while my husband likes them too a stove is really not what he wants. He wants the big, open, not glass-covered traditional wood-burning type fireplace. I am very discouraged trying to find something appropriate here

 

[weatherguy]

I have one in my house, I wouldn't build one but it was already there, it's a huge heat sink. I've insulated and blocked it so I don't lose heat when it's not in use. If your husband is dead set on a fireplace, maybe scrap the two sided one and do one sided in the living room on an outside wall.

 

[begreen]

A fireplace like that would probably fit in best on an exterior wall where it can be nearly flush with the interior wall and not take up precious floor space. A chase is built around the exterior of these units to keep it out of the elements and to hide the chimney. On the inside it can be finished however one wants. I would definitely get the glass doors. Otherwise the fireplace is taking more heat out of the house than it produces.

 

[enigmablaze]

A fireplace like that would probably fit in best on an exterior wall where it can be nearly flush with the interior wall and not take up precious floor space. A chase is built around the exterior of these units to keep it out of the elements and to hide the chimney. On the inside it can be finished however one wants. I would definitely get the glass doors. Otherwise the fireplace is taking more heat out of the house than it produces.

Sadly, with our layout, there is no place in the entire house to put one outside on an exterior wall without losing a window.

 

[enigmablaze]

I have one in my house, I wouldn't build one but it was already there, it's a huge heat sink. I've insulated and blocked it so I don't lose heat when it's not in use. If your husband is dead set on a fireplace, maybe scrap the two sided one and do one sided in the living room on an outside wall.

Is it a two-sided one that you have in your home or just an open fireplace? By "heat sink" do you mean it stores heat when used or that it loses heat all the time?

I wonder why some fireplaces almost seem to make the room colder (my best friend's situation), some seem to be about even (my parents) and some don't lose any heat and heat intensely (my in-laws...ironically the biggest and open-est of the three in this tiny sample size).

 

[begreen]

Yes, losing a window may be necessary if you want to conserve floor space.

Here is a smaller double-sided fireplace that may work. It is shown with a contemporary finish, but what you finish it with in your home is up to you.
(broken link removed to http://astria.us.com/products/windsor-see-thru)

Open fireplaces always lose heat from the room as they cool down.

 

[weatherguy]

Is it a two-sided one that you have in your home or just an open fireplace? By "heat sink" do you mean it stores heat when used or that it loses heat all the time?

I wonder why some fireplaces almost seem to make the room colder (my best friend's situation), some seem to be about even (my parents) and some don't lose any heat and heat intensely (my in-laws...ironically the biggest and open-est of the three in this tiny sample size).

It's a two sided between the living room and dining room/kitchen. It loses heat when the fire goes out and also when it's not in use, that's why I ended up insulating above the damper and don't use it. I get my fire fix with my woodstove.

 

[enigmablaze]

It's a two sided between the living room and dining room/kitchen. It loses heat when the fire goes out and also when it's not in use, that's why I ended up insulating above the damper and don't use it. I get my fire fix with my woodstove.

Interesting, thank you...do you feel like the stove is as much fun as a fireplace? Speaking to my husband about it he is open to them, just he has never used one. He does care that whatever we get works well, though it doesn't need to produce tons of heat, some heat and a good burn and no issues like smoke in the house/losing tons of air etc. ARE important to him. He really loves this semi-masonry dual sided open idea but a smoky, unusable fireplace that hardly burns would be a disaster...it's very hard to judge without being able to use something in real life.

 

[velvetfoot]

How about a firepit?

 

[St. Coemgen]

I mean I don't want to lose heat with it and certainly some extra heat would be welcome but the house has central heating so that's not its main purpose. It's main purpose is so my husband can build big fires and enjoy them like he did when he was growing up. Aesthetics are important to me

If aesthetics are primary, then going with a double glass pain fireplace is fine. It is an art form then. No problem (but note: most responders here are fixated mostly on generating heat, not art ... ergo most of the replies you had so far (Chum Stains being an notable exception trying to help with both issues)). Then you only need to control for heat loss. Do this by either (A) cranking up your thermostat a little bit on your main heating source when you have the fire burning, or (B) consider installing a heat exchanger system in your house so that the air drawn by the fire is being heated as it is coming into the house. Just "google" for home heat exchangers for options (they also nicely reduce your Radon Gas issues in your home if you have that problem).

Also, as another idea, for a "panoramic fire view" have you considered something like:

(broken link removed to http://morsoe.com/us/indoor/products/wall-mounted/morsoe-7970-wallhung)

or

(broken link removed to http://morsoe.com/us/indoor/products/wall-mounted/morsoe-7948-on-and-elegant-pedestal)

 

[St. Coemgen]

How about a firepit?

If this is mostly for artistic/aesthetic reasons, a gas fed fire pit is actually a good idea.



But one need to check local regulations about where such can be installed.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Interesting, thank you...do you feel like the stove is as much fun as a fireplace? Speaking to my husband about it he is open to them, just he has never used one. He does care that whatever we get works well, though it doesn't need to produce tons of heat, some heat and a good burn and no issues like smoke in the house/losing tons of air etc. ARE important to him. He really loves this semi-masonry dual sided open idea but a smoky, unusable fireplace that hardly burns would be a disaster...it's very hard to judge without being able to use something in real life.

Good morning.

I don't have the encyclopedic knowledge of brands and options that some of these folk do, but I mostly just wanted to address the question of the fun of a wood stove.

I grew up with a wood stove as basically the only heat. I never thought of it as fun, but it was warm in the stove room, and that's where we spent our time. My husband grew up with a big fireplace, and he had sentimental memories of it. When we bought our house, we were glad for a masonry fireplace in the walkout basement. I think it took perhaps just one winter of our living here to realize that the basement was too cold to be comfortable in winter without a space heater. We did do pretty radical insulating and airsealing, but we decided that the fireplace was a contributor to the cold. We installed a wood insert and have both loved it.

My husband took a little while to adjust from fireplace burning mentality to stove burning. He wanted to open the door, poke at the logs, add a split here and there ... Now he's really come to appreciate the heat cycle of wood burning and would never go back to a fireplace. He also just appreciates the really solid heat. We've had a big cold snap here, and he didn't have time to stoke the fire this morning, but our basement was still warmer than our main floor. Upon waking, the kids immediately go down there to play (legos this morning) and to enjoy the stove. They love the fire. (In an hour, I had the big basement room up to 80 because everybody wanted to warm up.)

Growing up, I never thought wood stoves were fun. They just were. With our insert, I think the stove is fun. I like tending it during the day. (I also love to process wood, so that helps.). My husband and enjoy our down time at the end of the day by loading a big (or as big as it gets in our medium-sized insert) load before bed. It's our time to talk together about our days, about our kids, make plans, etc. We enjoy the heat and find the secondary burn on our tube stove quite mesmerizing. A wood stove is different from a fireplace, but yes, with the modern glass front, a wood stove can be fun. (I know our insert has an optional screen for the front to make it operate like a fireplace. My husband was drawn to that when we bought the stove, but we didn't buy it and thought we could get it later if we wanted it. With the glass front (and ours is a pretty small glass front comparatively), we've never felt the need.)

We picked our fireplace insert a bit more on practicality than on aesthetics (though neither of us wanted something that we didn't like aesthetically), but there are some stunning stoves on the market. If you do start thinking about stoves, the good folks here on this forum will give you lots of options and information. If you post floor plans or pictures and dimensions and things, they'll even start designing for you.

Okay, there are a lot more words there than I thought there would be. You've found a great informational site. Keep reading. Keep asking questions. Get your husband to start reading and exploring options, and if no one has mentioned it already, get your wood supply in order now while you're still think about installation options. Good dry wood is key to burning well.

 

[St. Coemgen]

Good morning....

Your post was sweet, charming, poetic and infornative.

I, for one, was moved. Thank you.

 

[Destructor]

I love an open fireplace, I use mine every weekend. I live in a 1950’s cape. My damper closes tight and I have glass doors which stay shut when it’s not in use. I can keep my living room very comfortable with the fireplace. I light the fire then turn off my furnace and crack a window, the house is already relatively warm, though maybe a bit chilly before I light the fire. The other rooms do cool down but I spend my time in the room with the fireplace so I really don’t care. I use a fireback and a grate that allows me to burn some very big pieces of wood, usually oak. The fireplace isn’t too deep. After a pile of coals form a lot of heat is thrown but it requires lots of wood and some time. When I’m done playing with the fireplace I let the fire die down, close the glass doors then turn the furnace back on. Getting the wood takes work but I have woods across the street and I enjoy the effort.

The wood I use during one weekend with a fireplace would easily heat my home for a week if I had a wood stove. I’ve played with fireplaces and wood stoves almost my entire life but too many modifications are required in my current home’s fireplace to install a free standing stove. Maybe an insert someday. A wood stove can also heat up a cold home relatively quickly, at least the room it is in. If I lost power and the house really got cold I couldn’t imagine how long it would take for my fireplace to heat up the living room, though I’m sure it eventually would but forget about the rest of the house.

I think you would be happy with an alcove on the outside wall with a nice stove with a ceramic glass door. My father’s Jodul is beautiful to watch burn and heats most of the first floor.

 

[enigmablaze]

If this is mostly for artistic/aesthetic reasons, a gas fed fire pit is actually a good idea.

View attachment 192063

But one need to check local regulations about where such can be installed.

I was confused earlier about the reference to a fire pit, but I understand what you mean now. Alas a gas one would be way easier for install but the wood burning is absolute #1 on the hubby's list. He just misses it.