Drolet 1800 vs Pacific Energy Super ?

[EbS-P]

You can step up to the next size Drolet for 3-400$ more. Several choices. I’m happy with mine. It does it’s job. Is not fancy. I wish I had a BK insert all the time but it was not in the budget and even it it were there are lots of more pressing projects to spend the 3k$+ I save by choosing the Drolet. Like attic insulation.

 

[TonyE]

Be careful listening to testimonies from previous super or summit owners. The 2020 emissions regulations triggered a redesign of these stoves in ways that most of us wouldn’t like. They are now labeled LE for low emissions and that usually means a loss of output range in the bottom. Just be sure you’re comparing apples to apples.

The old ones were great but are now illegal to sell new.

I didn't realize that they changed the design. Too bad. In any case I wouldn't pay that much for it unless I had money to burn. If I were not going to cut my own logs if look for a stove that could take 16" splits n/s which works better for starting up and packing for an overnight burn. Not an issue if you cut your own out can buy sub 14* cordwood.

 

[Da16652]

I would call around. This is the first time I have heard about charging for standard items on the Classic. However, inventory is low so it's a seller's market.

Good advice, however there are few dealers in this area

 

[Highbeam]

I didn't realize that they changed the design. Too bad. In any case I wouldn't pay that much for it unless I had money to burn. If I were not going to cut my own logs if look for a stove that could take 16" splits n/s which works better for starting up and packing for an overnight burn. Not an issue if you cut your own out can buy sub 14* cordwood.

Yeah, several manufacturers totally redesigned for 2020 but kept the old model names. Hearthstone added cats to previously noncat stoves. The Super firebox had mechanical control of the secondary air through a linkage and now for 2020 has some sort of barometric contraption plus most noncats cut off the bottom end so that they would burn hotter and cleaner which cuts that burn time. I’m happy for PE that they avoided catalysts, that was important to them.

 

[begreen]

Yeah, several manufacturers totally redesigned for 2020 but kept the old model names. Hearthstone added cats to previously noncat stoves. The Super firebox had mechanical control of the secondary air through a linkage and now for 2020 has some sort of barometric contraption plus most noncats cut off the bottom end so that they would burn hotter and cleaner which cuts that burn time. I’m happy for PE that they avoided catalysts, that was important to them.

The EBT2 has been on the larger Summits for years, about a decade. It is to extend the burn time by closing off the secondary air as the fire enters the coaling stage. The EBT2 was added to the Super in 2019. There are thousands of stoves with the EBT2. I have not seen evidence that this is an issue. And definitely not seen this as an issue in the personal operation of a 2020 T6.

The main modifications to the Super and Summit to meet the 2020 regs were additional secondary holes in the baffle and more insulation on the baffle top.

 

[Highbeam]

The EBT2 has been on the larger Summits for years, about a decade. It is to extend the burn time by closing off the secondary air as the fire enters the coaling stage. The EBT2 was added to the Super in 2019. There are thousands of stoves with the EBT2. I have not seen evidence that this is an issue. And definitely not seen this as an issue in the personal operation of a 2020 T6.

The main modifications to the Super and Summit to meet the 2020 regs were additional secondary holes in the baffle and more insulation on the baffle top.

Right, changes were made. The old mechanically regulated secondaries on the super earned it a great reputation. Nobody but PE knows what other modifications were made to achieve 2020 compliance and the LE tag. Current buyers are Guinea pigs for many 2020 models.

 

[begreen]

The changes to the PE stoves were not radical. That is one of the reasons they were among the first to market with the EPA 2020-compliant stoves. Unfortunately, since Tom died, we have lost an authority on these stoves but he and I did have conversations about the changes when they came out a few years ago. Wish he could have dropped in on this conversation. I miss him but this is what I am passing on. Remember, EBT stands for Extended Burn Time.

Edit: The EBT2 was also employed in the Neo line when they came out.

 

[Highbeam]

The changes to the PE stoves were not radical. That is one of the reasons they were among the first to market with the EPA 2020-compliant stoves. Unfortunately, since Tom died, we have lost an authority on these stoves but he and I did have conversations about the changes when they came out a few years ago. Wish he could have dropped in on this conversation. I miss him but this is what I am passing on. Remember, EBT stands for Extended Burn Time.

EBT always has been an attempt to extend burn times compared to a standard unregulated secondary air supply. Maybe there was some reason that it didn’t appear on the super box until the new regs were imminent.

If those changes made a better stove I expect that they would have been done decades ago back when these stoves were earning their reputation.

 

[begreen]

When you have a manufacturing process and parts in place you don't change a successful formula. That's why PE parts are still available going way back. I suspect development started around 2015 when the new regs were first announced. Modifying the firebox requires substantial costs including in-house and then beta testing over a few years and then expensive recertification. It's not like they just slapped the Summit EBT on the stove and called it a go. This is not a trivial undertaking.

Given the Super's history, I suspect the engineering goal was not only to meet the new EPA requirements but also to maintain the stove's stellar reputation and good long burn times for a 2 cu ft stove. This was something Tom would test in his shop, but he only told me that it performed very well in comparison.

 

[dan7800]

I am looking for a budget level insert and am considering the 1800. Two questions on the 1800

• Does it qualify for the 26% tax credit?
• My firebox is approximately 40"W, 30"H, 27"depth, 31" back width. If I were to buy (broken link removed) kit, would the hearth surround cover the opening of the firebox? I couldn't find any details regarding this.

I am looking to heat a 500 sq foot room with vaulted ceilings. I LOVE my traditional fireplace, but hate that it doesn't put out any auxiarly heat to the room.

Thanks all
-Dan

 

[bholler]

Yeah, several manufacturers totally redesigned for 2020 but kept the old model names. Hearthstone added cats to previously noncat stoves. The Super firebox had mechanical control of the secondary air through a linkage and now for 2020 has some sort of barometric contraption plus most noncats cut off the bottom end so that they would burn hotter and cleaner which cuts that burn time. I’m happy for PE that they avoided catalysts, that was important to them.

Most noncats did not cut off the bottom end at all. Most added some extra secondary air and extended the diverters above the baffle to slow down the exhaust some giving the secondaries a bit more time to work. Yes some of the cheaper stoves took the easy way out by simply adding more air overall. But that absolutely isn't the case across the board.

 

[Highbeam]

Most noncats did not cut off the bottom end at all. Most added some extra secondary air and extended the diverters above the baffle to slow down the exhaust some giving the secondaries a bit more time to work. Yes some of the cheaper stoves took the easy way out by simply adding more air overall. But that absolutely isn't the case across the board.

Definitely not across the board.

 

[bholler]

Definitely not across the board.

So where did the comment that most did it come from? Most I have seen at shows and in the field havnt done that at all. If anything the stoves in general are more restricted and require higher draft than before

 

[ABMax24]

Of the 2 stoves in question in this thread, it is certainly the drolet that has suffered most from EPA 2020 updates.

 

[Hogwildz]

Sounds like at that price, you're getting screwed. Not sure where you're at, but try Stoltz Stoves in Bloomsburg.

 

[moresnow]

I am looking for a budget level insert and am considering the 1800. Two questions on the 1800

• Does it qualify for the 26% tax credit?
• My firebox is approximately 40"W, 30"H, 27"depth, 31" back width. If I were to buy (broken link removed) kit, would the hearth surround cover the opening of the firebox? I couldn't find any details regarding this.

I am looking to heat a 500 sq foot room with vaulted ceilings. I LOVE my traditional fireplace, but hate that it doesn't put out any auxiarly heat to the room.

Thanks all
-Dan

Dan, consider starting a new thread looking for opinions on the stove kit you linked to. Include "US Stove US1800E" in your thread title. Much more likely to get correct feedback as this thread targets the Drolet 1800 and PE Super. Totally different make/models. Good luck.

 

[Todd]

Most noncats did not cut off the bottom end at all. Most added some extra secondary air and extended the diverters above the baffle to slow down the exhaust some giving the secondaries a bit more time to work. Yes some of the cheaper stoves took the easy way out by simply adding more air overall. But that absolutely isn't the case across the board.

Yep like my stove. They added turbulator fins and extra secondary holes in front of them on top of the baffle. I was skeptical at first thinking this would just send more heat up the flue and give me shorter burn times but it hasn’t. Flue temps run 400-600 with burn times of 12+ hours burning Aspen.