door gasket talk

[rwhite]

How are the cleanouts positioned in relation to the fireplace? I'm just thinking of you sealed the doors and opened the clean outs if they are vented into the fire place you would have an idea of your plan will even work. I'm sure it would chew through the wood as the air would be routed to the bottom of the fire. One other thing I would have concern is if the structure, lintel, and damper can handle that level of heat. The inside of a fireplace burning with the doors open is nowhere near the heat level you may produce.

 

[beermann]

I am happy you brought that up. I think it's a real concern that ashes may go into the duct work. Here is my set-up.....please excuse the wildly crude drawing. Thanks for providing input.

Feel free to message me a well. Still planning and researching.

 

[rwhite]

I am happy you brought that up. I think it's a real concern that ashes may go into the duct work. Here is my set-up.....please excuse the wildly crude drawing. Thanks for providing input.

Feel free to message me a well. Still planning and researching.

So are the cleanout doors on an interior wall in a basement?

 

[beermann]

How are the cleanouts positioned in relation to the fireplace? I'm just thinking of you sealed the doors and opened the clean outs if they are vented into the fire place you would have an idea of your plan will even work. I'm sure it would chew through the wood as the air would be routed to the bottom of the fire. One other thing I would have concern is if the structure, lintel, and damper can handle that level of heat. The inside of a fireplace burning with the doors open is nowhere near the heat level you may produce.

I cant run it until I have a new glass panel and I have it certified. But when the time comes my first step will be to burn one log with a cheap makeshift insert as a test... ill be sure to video it for you.

I will consider lining the fireplace with a layer of fireplace liner to be couscous as well.

 

[beermann]

So are the cleanout doors on an interior wall in a basement?

yes they are and the idea is to run duct work (not pvc or plastic) 6-8 feet on an upward angle to the exterior of the house.

originally i was going to go to the right but it would be 25-30 feet and going left is much shorter distance,

 

[beermann]

I'm curious how you bring outside air into a fireplace safely. I'm imagining the duct work entering the Fire box but how do you prevent embers, ash and fire from entering the duct work? Im sure 90% of the time air flow will be coming in but there has to be That chance that you open the fireplace doors and someone opens the front door. It would seem plausible that flow direction could reverse and send flame into the duct work.

I am trying to have a set-up that allows me to be a little warm at night while i sit by the fire. this inst meant to warm a house. my goal is to warm up a guy sitting beside a fire at night. I work nights and for the times I am up late/wake up incredibly early on weekends I'd like a place to sit and watch tv. about 5 feet away.

 

[beermann]

One other thing I would have concern is if the structure, lintel, and damper can handle that level of heat. The inside of a fireplace burning with the doors open is nowhere near the heat level you may produce.

This is something I would not have considered. I will look into that. Thanks.

Due diligence is definitely something I will have to make a point of practicing while having a fireplace like this.

 

[bholler]

I'm curious how you bring outside air into a fireplace safely. I'm imagining the duct work entering the Fire box but how do you prevent embers, ash and fire from entering the duct work? Im sure 90% of the time air flow will be coming in but there has to be That chance that you open the fireplace doors and someone opens the front door. It would seem plausible that flow direction could reverse and send flame into the duct work.

All non combustible ducting running through noncombustible structure is the only way I would do it. But I really dont see that your project is going to be worth the effort at all. I am sorry to be so blunt but you are not going to make that fireplace produce any real heat without dumping allot of time and money into it.

 

[begreen]

Agreed. An insert would be a better investment for predictable results.

 

[beermann]

Agreed. An insert would be a better investment for predictable results.

I agree with you and I think that the test run in a few months will determine how far I take this project. it will either be a fun time with kids and hotdogs, marshmallows and popcorn or something I can use for late night warmth or something for looks.....

any additional input will be taken into consideration. also if anyone comes across a 20"x20" epa certified stove please let me know.

 

[beermann]

All non combustible ducting running through noncombustible structure is the only way I would do it. But I really dont see that your project is going to be worth the effort at all. I am sorry to be so blunt but you are not going to make that fireplace produce any real heat without dumping allot of time and money into it.

Being blunt and being an a-hole are two different things and I appreciate the honesty. The only experience I have from fire's is a VERY old and well cared for stove my grandpa used and the MANY MANY outdoor fire's I had in my youth. Indoor fire's are a new concept for me and I want to hear your experience's as well as everyone else.

I am not dismissing anything, I am reading, learning and considering what is said while also looking to exhaust all my options before making a decision.
safety is the number one priority and I am not expecting a lot from this project. Looking for a little heat while watching tv close to the fire at night.

I will learn a lot and I tend to try and learn as much as I can about these sort of things.

Thanks,

 

[begreen]

Keep an eye out on Kijiji.

 

[beermann]

25" Width rear (left to right), 30" Width front (left to right), 22" depth (front to back), 26" high (up and down) for the front view photo I wrote 20" high an this Is wrong, it is 26" high and it has an arc that starts to narrow at 20" high.

A 20" x 20" small unit would be ideal for me. No renovation needed and a little wiggle room inside the fireplace.

the brackets are just for clarification. info over typing can be troublesome.

For reference I've attached amazing schematics.

 

[ddddddden]

I think there are at least a few inserts that will fit those fireplace dimensions. How long you have to wait before a used insert that will fit turns up for sale locally may be a different story.

Another option would be to extend the hearth and set a freestanding stove out in front of the fireplace. Not many stoves will rear vent below a 26" lintel, but you could punch a hole into the masonry chimney several feet above the fireplace and use that for stove pipe to top vent most any stove you could find. You might like a freestanding stove better for quiet late night TV viewing too, because most inserts need to have the fan running to get the heat out into the room.

This page lays out all the stove/insert venting options.
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hostainlessliner.htm)

 

[beermann]

My only problem with an insert right now is cashflow and workload. I mean the workload isn't a big deal but I worry about unforseen extra renovations that come along with busting stuff apart....i do agree with your opinion on getting a used unit for the same cost as this project is not unreal, to move forward I would have to remove a large wooden mantle and then construct something around the edges to go flush with my wall and I will also have to remove brick work. The arc creates a lip that starts to get smaller after 20". Then I'd need to remove the damper and run a liner up. reasonably I could do it and keep the cost below $1000 but it's a big stretch from a $150 ceram door and $50 of hardware.

I am also operating on the understanding that my set-up will only produce a little radient heat for 5 hours a few nights a week. Wood is plentiful on kijiji year round and being a fitness junkie I would love to split my own wood for daily cardio.

 

[beermann]

I think there are at least a few inserts that will fit those fireplace dimensions. How long you have to wait before a used insert that will fit turns up for sale locally may be a different story.

Another option would be to extend the hearth and set a freestanding stove out in front of the fireplace. Not many stoves will rear vent below a 26" lintel, but you could punch a hole into the masonry chimney several feet above the fireplace and use that for stove pipe to top vent most any stove you could find. You might like a freestanding stove better for quiet late night TV viewing too, because most inserts need to have the fan running to get the heat out into the room.

This page lays out all the stove/insert venting options.
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hostainlessliner.htm)

Thanks for the website. Will be a good read later on.

 

[ddddddden]

YW. Here's his main page of chimney stuff.
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/libchimneys.htm)

You will see this after some reading, but if you did a freestanding stove, you wouldn't have to worry about any of the fireplace stuff. Stove sits out in front of the fireplace. Stove pipe comes up from top of stove, say, 3 ft and elbows into a thimble in the masonry, which plugs into a liner inside the masonry chimney...
or just run the liner on down through the damper and out the fireplace into the back of the stove, but there aren't many stoves that will connect to the pipe at a lintel height of 26".

And yes, $200 probably won't even cover the stainless liner, but at least it wouldn't be $200 wasted.
Okay, not wasted...I'm all for a learning experience, but I agree with the experts about getting heat out of the fireplace with any efficiency.

 

[beermann]

I think there are at least a few inserts that will fit those fireplace dimensions. How long you have to wait before a used insert that will fit turns up for sale locally may be a different story.

Another option would be to extend the hearth and set a freestanding stove out in front of the fireplace. Not many stoves will rear vent below a 26" lintel, but you could punch a hole into the masonry chimney several feet above the fireplace and use that for stove pipe to top vent most any stove you could find. You might like a freestanding stove better for quiet late night TV viewing too, because most inserts need to have the fan running to get the heat out into the room.

This page lays out all the stove/insert venting options.
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hostainlessliner.htm)

Just a rundown of my basic understanding of the cost's involved for my situation......feel free to correct my assumptions.


I have found the dwarf, cubic mini/grizzly, jotal, cottage mini. Some are not certified so they cannot be used. The ones that would work are around $1000 before shipping and before additional equipment like liners and hardware. Then busting out the damper. On the plus I would not have to renovate anything else.

Buying a second hand insert that is larger but cheaper and used ($300-$500) will mean busting up the masonry and removing the mantle and doing a lot of interior work. Add in hardware and hookups and I'm back to $800-$1000.

A free standing stove would not involve much work to the floor and clearances would be met but It would also sit out too far for the set-up of the house. But I would have a lot of options. The mantle would have to be removed completely.

Sounds like these options would throw enough heat to heat the home. Which I like and I'm planning in several years.

Would my set-up I'm planning with my current fireplace be able to put out 3000 to 8000btu? I'm not really wanting a 30-80 000btu set-up/install. Just a cozy place to sit next to the fire at night for the couple years until finances are in control.

I see what you mean about money well spent regarding where $200 can go.

 

[beermann]

YW. Here's his main page of chimney stuff.
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/libchimneys.htm)

You will see this after some reading, but if you did a freestanding stove, you wouldn't have to worry about any of the fireplace stuff. Stove sits out in front of the fireplace. Stove pipe comes up from top of stove, say, 3 ft and elbows into a thimble in the masonry, which plugs into a liner inside the masonry chimney...
or just run the liner on down through the damper and out the fireplace into the back of the stove, but there aren't many stoves that will connect to the pipe at a lintel height of 26".

And yes, $200 probably won't even cover the stainless liner, but at least it wouldn't be $200 wasted.
Okay, not wasted...I'm all for a learning experience, but I agree with the experts about getting heat out of the fireplace with any efficiency.

Horribly inefficient fireplaces suck. I'm looking at all the options while crossing my fingers that I can get some comfortable heat from my current set up.

 

[ddddddden]

Your assumptions are mostly correct. I don't know if you're understanding the other way of installing a liner, where you punch out of the masonry chimney above the damper, instead of going down through the damper, and run stove pipe out into the room and down to the stove. It's the first of the 3 types of installs shown here.
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hostainlessliner.htm)

This type of install would allow you to run any size stove. I'm thinking bigger than a mini, something like this badboy for $900 shipped (or whatever stove strikes your fancy on the used market.)

(broken link removed to https://www.myfireplaceproducts.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=DB03031&Lang=EN)

Borrowed from this thread.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/drolet-vs-vogelzang.159991/

Would my set-up I'm planning with my current fireplace be able to put out 3000 to 8000btu? I'm not really wanting a 30-80 000btu set-up/install...

I have no idea of the quantity of BTU's, but you will probably get enough radiant heat through the glass to feel cozy at 5 ft.

...just

a cozy place to sit next to the fire at night for the couple years until finances are in control.

I know the feeling.

 

[beermann]

Your assumptions are mostly correct. I don't know if you're understanding the other way of installing a liner, where you punch out of the masonry chimney above the damper, instead of going down through the damper, and run stove pipe out into the room and down to the stove. It's the first of the 3 types of installs shown here.
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hostainlessliner.htm)

This type of install would allow you to run any size stove. I'm thinking bigger than a mini, something like this badboy for $900 shipped (or whatever stove strikes your fancy on the used market.)

(broken link removed to https://www.myfireplaceproducts.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=DB03031&Lang=EN)

Borrowed from this thread.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/drolet-vs-vogelzang.159991/

I have no idea of the quantity of BTU's, but you will probably get enough radiant heat through the glass to feel cozy at 5 ft.

I know the feeling.

Ahh yes. I see now. I had the install right but in my mind the wood stove was much larger like my gramps used back in the day.

I like that set up and I'll do some passive thinking beside the fire after this project is done.

 

[ddddddden]

p.s. Mantel removal may not be necessary. You can put a heat shield on the mantel and/or stove pipe to reduce clearance required.

 

[beermann]

Your assumptions are mostly correct. I don't know if you're understanding the other way of installing a liner, where you punch out of the masonry chimney above the damper, instead of going down through the damper, and run stove pipe out into the room and down to the stove. It's the first of the 3 types of installs shown here.
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hostainlessliner.htm)

This type of install would allow you to run any size stove. I'm thinking bigger than a mini, something like this badboy for $900 shipped (or whatever stove strikes your fancy on the used market.)

(broken link removed to https://www.myfireplaceproducts.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=DB03031&Lang=EN)

Borrowed from this thread.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/drolet-vs-vogelzang.159991/

I have no idea of the quantity of BTU's, but you will probably get enough radiant heat through the glass to feel cozy at 5 ft.

I know the feeling.

I really like that stove and I kind of wish I could go ahead and buy something like that and put it inside the fireplace. Recessed or inserts are definitely the style I'm going for.

I automatically start thinking I could get something like this and take of the legs to get it into the fireplace and clear the arc then hook it all up, jack it up and put the legs back on/slide its base back under and attach....For insurance purposes I'm certain it would need to be on its factory legs. And it would be non comparable to what I'm trying to do for $250 and it would pay for itself quickly since I could move the thermostat to a different location down the hall And I would avoid renovating anything.......

 

[beermann]

p.s. Mantel removal may not be necessary. You can put a heat shield on the mantel and/or stove pipe to reduce clearance required.

It may not look too bad so I won't rule it out until I get a visual. I'm all over the map on this one.

 

[beermann]

I really like that stove and I kind of wish I could go ahead and buy something like that and put it inside the fireplace. Recessed or inserts are definitely the style I'm going for.

I automatically start thinking I could get something like this and take of the legs to get it into the fireplace and clear the arc then hook it all up, jack it up and put the legs back on/slide its base back under and attach....For insurance purposes I'm certain it would need to be on its factory legs. And it would be non comparable to what I'm trying to do for $250 and it would pay for itself quickly since I could move the thermostat to a different location down the hall And I would avoid renovating anything.......

I did a thing.......got a regency i1200 for $300 with blower and trim.....it fits.....