Do I need to go up a size when considering a HPWH?

[d.sebens]

I’m thinking about switch from our electric 50 gallon (240v 5000w) to a Rheem HPWH. The 50 works good for our family but I see a lot about upsizing one due to the slow recovery.
According to sense we use about $100-140 a month on electricity with our water heater.

Water heater is located in an open basement that isn’t directly conditioned. The rebates and Home Depot sale seems pretty good right now.

I see mixed reports about noise are the new ones any quieter?

 

[EbS-P]

I’m thinking about switch from our electric 50 gallon (240v 5000w) to a Rheem HPWH. The 50 works good for our family but I see a lot about upsizing one due to the slow recovery.
According to sense we use about $100-140 a month on electricity with our water heater.

Water heater is located in an open basement that isn’t directly conditioned. The rebates and Home Depot sale seems pretty good right now.

I see mixed reports about noise are the new ones any quieter?

How big is your family and does hot water usage cluster together?

 

[EbS-P]

And what is the out of pocket price difference? And what is is your incoming water temp in the winter?

 

[d.sebens]

House of 4 and currently 3 morning showers. Wife sometimes takes an evening bath.
A proterra 50 gallon is $1489 and the performance platinum 65 gallon is $1639 so about $150. I get a $800 rebate from my utility company.

I am on well so once I’ve exhausted my water in there pressure tanks it would be 54 degrees or so.

 

[EbS-P]

We have an 80 gallon for a family of 7. Have to pay attention in the winter when the water inlet temps drop into the 50s.

For 150$ more I’d definitely get the 65. This winter I set mine to hybrid mode for a faster recovery. Now the ground is warming up I’ll set it back to heatpump only.

 

[semipro]

Make sure you have the space to fit a larger water heater. A HPWP will be considerably taller than an electrical resistance unit.

 

[d.sebens]

Make sure you have the space to fit a larger water heater. A HPWP will be considerably taller than an electrical resistance unit.

Yeah I have room for it. I’ll double check but it should be no issues.

 

[woodgeek]

I decided to upsize to a 80 gallon HPWH for my family of 4. I also shopped for 'nice' low flow shower fixtures and never have a problem, even when we have guests.

Recovery does take 6+ hours in the winter in my attached garage.

I previously had a tankless coil on a boiler with 'infinite hot water', but it could only support 1 shower at a time. The HPWH (tank) is a big upgrade in terms of temp stability and multiple users at the same time.

 

[d.sebens]

Could I ask what brand you all have? Also how do you feel about the noise. It would be in the basement with no walls around it. Basement isn’t really utilized. The rheem I’m looking at is advertised at 46db or something but multiple people have measured it at 75-80db from 6 feet away.

 

[EbS-P]

Could I ask what brand you all have? Also how do you feel about the noise. It would be in the basement with no walls around it. Basement isn’t really utilized. The rheem I’m looking at is advertised at 46db or something but multiple people have measured it at 75-80db from 6 feet away.

I have a Bradford white. The bought the the GE lineup. It’s in a closet in a kids bedroom. We have a duct kit on it. If got an 8” duct silencer it would be quieter. It’s not obnoxious I have no trouble falling asleep down there when it’s running.

 

[brenndatomu]

We have a Richmond (Rheem) 50 gallon with a family of four and very seldom any issue with running out...the only time would be if all four shower right in a row (rare) especially if my wife goes last, because she likes it really hot. I usually go last because I like it just warm...but normally no issues at all.

Thread 'Richmond® 50 Gallon Electric Water Heater with Hybrid Heat Pump any good?'

Jul 13, 2019

Thinking about replacing my 50 gallon electric WH with one of these units, been looking at these for a while now...mine is working fine, but is of an unknown age...probably at least 25 YO. I usually run em 'til they blow, but with the sale right now, they don't get any cheaper than this, I'm sure if I wait until mine dies that this will not be on sale, especially one this good.
I guess I could buy it and let it sit in the garage until needed, but then the warranty is ticking away too...decisions decisions...advice, input? Sale ends tonight.
An additional bonus would be possibly not needing...

• brenndatomu
• Replies: 113
• Forum: DIY and General non-hearth advice

 

[woodgeek]

I got the AOSmith 80 gallon 11 years ago. Newer models are more efficient.

The unit is loud in my garage, but barely audible in my living room overhead. Sounds like the quiet background rumble of the warp engines on the Enterprise.

 

[d.sebens]

I’m really torn. There’s a lot of bad reviews on the rheem and a really large amount of bad reviews on the ao smith. It’s got me thinking about going back to a propane water heater that is high efficiency. https://vgsvt.com/savings/heat-pump-water-heaters/compare-costs/?

I found this website. My propane last year was 1.5. I don’t know what it will be this year. My power is $0.1542 per kWh. Heat pump wins on it but a .62uef water heater isn’t that far off on monthly costs. If I got a .90 uef it’s even closer.

 

[EbS-P]

Look how old the reviews were anything older than 5 years probably doesn’t reflect the product you are buying today. Tough choice gas Vs heatpump. Do you run a dehumidifier in the basement? The HPWH will reduce the need for that.

 

[d.sebens]

Yes I do. The rheem had more current reviews that I saw but some were old. Yes I do run a dehumidifier. I had thought about that. I just bought a new dehumidifier as the old one died. You all have had good experiences out of it but I still read about failures after a few years. I know negative reviews ‘ travel’ further than positive but I’m just afraid that the technology has outpaced the quality.

 

[woodgeek]

I’m really torn. There’s a lot of bad reviews on the rheem and a really large amount of bad reviews on the ao smith. It’s got me thinking about going back to a propane water heater that is high efficiency. https://vgsvt.com/savings/heat-pump-water-heaters/compare-costs/?

I found this website. My propane last year was 1.5. I don’t know what it will be this year. My power is $0.1542 per kWh. Heat pump wins on it but a .62uef water heater isn’t that far off on monthly costs. If I got a .90 uef it’s even closer.

Since I also run a dehumidifier in the space, I figure that my HPWH costs me zero net to operate (since it reduces my dehumidifier running).

There have always been bad reviews. Mine has given me zero trouble (and maintenance) in almost 12 years. Except for replacing a control board after a huge power surge, which AOSmith fedexed me for free and I swapped out myself.

I don't get why folks are nervous about a technology that is very similar to that in refrigerators. Mature tech at this point.

 

[d.sebens]

Since I also run a dehumidifier in the space, I figure that my HPWH costs me zero net to operate (since it reduces my dehumidifier running).

There have always been bad reviews. Mine has given me zero trouble (and maintenance) in almost 12 years. Except for replacing a control board after a huge power surge, which AOSmith fedexed me for free and I swapped out myself.

I don't get why folks are nervous about a technology that is very similar to that in refrigerators. Mature tech at this point.

I’m not nervous about the tech. I’m nervous about the quality. Standard water heaters are simple. Seems like most new appliances are made as cheap as possible for top dollar price. I’m afraid it won’t last. Refrigeration is nothing new but thinner materials, tighter tolerances, and FEA/FEM testing is and that allows them to make something as cheap as possible that theoretically isn’t going fail…. In theory.

 

[EbS-P]

I’m not nervous about the tech. I’m nervous about the quality. Standard water heaters are simple. Seems like most new appliances are made as cheap as possible for top dollar price. I’m afraid it won’t last. Refrigeration is nothing new but thinner materials, tighter tolerances, and FEA/FEM testing is and that allows them to make something as cheap as possible that theoretically isn’t going fail…. In theory.

These are no longer first generation or probably second generation products. I’m happy. But I do recommend a whole house surge protector.

 

[woodgeek]

I’m not nervous about the tech. I’m nervous about the quality. Standard water heaters are simple. Seems like most new appliances are made as cheap as possible for top dollar price. I’m afraid it won’t last. Refrigeration is nothing new but thinner materials, tighter tolerances, and FEA/FEM testing is and that allows them to make something as cheap as possible that theoretically isn’t going fail…. In theory.

I hear you. But cross that with the unreliability (and poor sampling) of internet reviews. And I am not conspiratorial in general, but I think that competing tech often puts out fake bad reviews in general. Millions of these units have been sold.

I have never known anyone with a problem with the HPWH, but many plumbers or techs I talk to says they 'never work', usually while standing next to one. Other plumbers happily install them every day.

In the end a warranty is a warranty, and mine came with a 10 year one I think? I computed a simple payback as 4-5 years in my case, even back when the unit was super expensive. So another way to go is to ask if 'simple payback is much less than warranty period'?

 

[EbS-P]

I hear you. But cross that with the unreliability (and poor sampling) of internet reviews. And I am not conspiratorial in general, but I think that competing tech often puts out fake bad reviews in general. Millions of these units have been sold.

I have never known anyone with a problem with the HPWH, but many plumbers or techs I talk to says they 'never work', usually while standing next to one. Other plumbers happily install them every day.

In the end a warranty is a warranty, and mine came with a 10 year one I think? I computed a simple payback as 4-5 years in my case, even back when the unit was super expensive. So another way to go is to ask if 'simple payback is much less than warranty period'?

$500 of labor to replace a warranty covered board on mine. That’s about 2-3 years of payback

 

[Max W]

Our about seven year old Rheem 50 gal. Platinum Performance has worked in our cellar without a problem. We can hear it upstairs but it is not as loud as our boiler which used to supply our hot water. There is more than enough for the two of us. I really appreciate how the hp dehumidifies but with winter temps it also adds to cooling our basement with its uninsulated floor and rock / concrete walls. We very rarely run the boiler and the temp can get down to the low 40’s

$800 is a pretty good rebate. There has been a 30% tax credit but we will have to see what the change in gov. does to that. The energy use sticker reads the annual cost at $151 Whatever you are going ahead with this looks like the time to buy.

 

[brenndatomu]

I bought ours at Menards on a good sale. Added on the 10 year warranty and it will still have paid for itself, and it's replacement (although I did not factor in price increases) by the time the warranty is gone...it was zero risk purchase in my mind.
Have been pleased with it, no problems, not noisy, and yes, dehumidifies 99% by itself too.
Our Kuuma wood furnace is 15' away so I say we have "wood powered" hot water in the winter, since the hpwh captures some of the waste heat off the furnace.

Talking with our sales guy from the local supply house recently and he said he just shakes his head at how many people seem to be perfectly fine with replacing leaking gas water heaters every 5-7 years, when electric go twice that long (on average, locally) and are higher efficiency too! (Local electric rates aren't crazy though either, <$0.12/kwh)
Just looked it up, looks like this one qualifies for up to $2k tax credit too...potentially free, especially if utility has a credit too! Oh, and looks like the 10 year warranty is now included!

Richmond® Wi-Fi 50 Gallon Hybrid Electric-Heat Pump Water Heater (30 Amp)

This heat pump-electric hybrid is the smartest, quietest, and most efficient water heater on the market. It features a hybrid heat pump design making it up to 400% more efficient than standard electric water heaters. It's so efficient, it pays for itself in only 2-3 years. It's smart?control it...

www.menards.com

 

[d.sebens]

I bought ours at Menards on a good sale. Added on the 10 year warranty and it will still have paid for itself, and it's replacement (although I did not factor in price increases) by the time the warranty is gone...it was zero risk in my mind.
Have been pleased with it, no problems, not noisy, and yes, dehumidifies 99% by itself too.

Talking with our sales guy from the local supply house recently and he said he just shakes his head at how many people seem to be perfectly fine with replacing leaking gas water heaters every 5-7 years, when electric go twice that long (on average, locally) and are higher efficiency too! (Local electric rates aren't crazy though either, <$0.12/kwh)
Just looked it up, looks like this one qualifies for up to $2k tax credit too...potentially free, especially if utility has a credit too! Oh, and looks like the 10 year warranty is now included!

Richmond® Wi-Fi 50 Gallon Hybrid Electric-Heat Pump Water Heater (30 Amp)

This heat pump-electric hybrid is the smartest, quietest, and most efficient water heater on the market. It features a hybrid heat pump design making it up to 400% more efficient than standard electric water heaters. It's so efficient, it pays for itself in only 2-3 years. It's smart?control it...

www.menards.com

The $2000 is the energy star rebate and it’s actually 30% of your purchase and install. Would have to be a $6700 bill to get that. How long have you owned yours?

 

[brenndatomu]

I installed Christmas 2019, so 6 years this coming December

 

[andym]

I installed a 50 gallon Richmond (Rheem) on January 1, 2024. It's served a family of 5 (now 6) since then. I leave it set in hybrid mode. If we are not careful we can run it out of hot water. Baths are the real culprit, plus a 9 year old that takes loooong showers if allowed. I would go with the 80 gal if doing it again. It would have been a tight squeeze plus an additional $800 however. The noise can be heard through the floor, but after a few months I really have to listen for it to know if it's running. Certainly loving the $25/month savings! Plus a modest tax break! It does help with humidity in the basement. I still run a dehumidifier, but it doesn't run nearly as much.