I'm an engineer (steam ship propulsion, no less), what can I say? I like information. I won't buy a vehicle without a full set of gauges. Of course I have thermometers and I monitor my stove temps...with magnetic thermometers placed just above the stove collars on single-wall stovepipe. I've not (yet) gone so far as to print up log sheets and make sure somebody's recording readings every half-hour, though. %-P Rick
do I NEED a thermometer
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I discovered this morning that relying on the magnetic on the stove top (where mine is located) it sure isn`t accurate at start up.
Loaded the firebox 2/3 full with cedar kindling and slabs and after 10 minutes could`a swore I was seeing the secondary tubes shooting out flame, while the thermomoter is still reading 150F. So I go outside and sure enough-No Smoke. Having stated this, it is now reading 400F. So have deduced that when using the magnetic you have to wait for that steel to get warm on the outside and then it is gonna be accurate, but not before that. Either that or buy the IR one as well.
Hope I`ve reached the correct conclusion on the magnetic`s? Any comments on these observations?
Loaded the firebox 2/3 full with cedar kindling and slabs and after 10 minutes could`a swore I was seeing the secondary tubes shooting out flame, while the thermomoter is still reading 150F. So I go outside and sure enough-No Smoke. Having stated this, it is now reading 400F. So have deduced that when using the magnetic you have to wait for that steel to get warm on the outside and then it is gonna be accurate, but not before that. Either that or buy the IR one as well.
Hope I`ve reached the correct conclusion on the magnetic`s? Any comments on these observations?
I've noticed that thermometers do take their sweet time in adjusting so if a fire is building fast, I don't wait for the temp gauge to tell me when it's too hot.
Sonny I think you have to put the stoves thermal mass into perspective. Just like your thermal disc that enables the blower.
You will achive 2ndarys well before the extremities of your stove reach there optimum before the blower will activate without causing ill effects on lowering your overall stove temp that may effect your cleanest burn. Thats my angle anyways.
N of 60
You will achive 2ndarys well before the extremities of your stove reach there optimum before the blower will activate without causing ill effects on lowering your overall stove temp that may effect your cleanest burn. Thats my angle anyways.
N of 60
Heat transfer's not instantaneous, regardless of the material. It takes time for the outside of the stove to approach the temperature of the inside. The ubiquitous little magnetic thermometers we use on our stoves take some time to respond. I recently did some "testing" that I'll lay out in another post...but I'd say my point is (assuming I have a point at all) that we're not dealing with a process here (burning wood in a stove) that's particularly thermally dynamic. Things need time to get to whatever temperature they're gonna get to. If you don't want to wait for a surface-mounted thermometer to respond, then install a probe-type. Rick
Thanks Fossil and N60. Thermal mass, yep that and the fact that I had been noticing since learning to get the temps up quicker, vis-a-vis much smaller splits to begin with-that the blower engages quicker as well. Used to be when the slow starts were being foolishly done by myself that the blower didn`t kick on until the thermomoter read 475F. Now that I am starting my fires correctly I have been noticing that the the blower kicks on when the therm is reading as little as 300F. Gotta love this forum, always, always continuing to learn. Awesome!!
Hey I wonder how useful one of those neat little laser pistol grip thermometers would work for you? I got one of those last year and find myself wandering around with it shooting little red dots all over the place during the winter. Very handy rig for 30 bucks and all I have is a pellet stove. You can sit across the room and just point and shoot right from the easy chair just like a regular Archie Bunker. Besides if you are over 40 you still can read it without getting your glasses. Just a thought........................... Those were some plum purdy poetry words dar, better keep the day job before we start tossin the rotten cabbage and tomatoes.............................
Ok, need to clarify my earlier post, always have said that thermometers are a must for cast & soapstone, if nothing else to make sure the break in fires are done correctly. I've always thought that with a steel stove, if you could see the secondary combustion, glass was staying clean, you didn't need a thermometer. I've read some of your posts talking about using the stove top and flue thermometers to "tweak" the stove's perfomance. Could you elaborate on that more, are there different levels of efficiency here? If the secondary is engaging, what more can you do? What do you do with a leyden when there is no baffle, the temp on the lid will go very high? Apparantly I have much to learn.
pyro68 said:
Tweaking about nails it!! Even then, I am not so sure? Mostly my kodiak cruises at about 325-400 and never see smoke. Just checked the chimney as well today, and "diddly squat" for creosote. Just nil, none.!!
From what I am still learning is that when you first fire up -- whether it be daily or whatever--get it screaming hot without overfiring and then with each reload-get the secondaries going before cutting back the primary air and then=no worries about creosote.
No doubt my temps will seem kinda low for some members, but it works for me and my particular insert. And I think this is the "key" you have to get to know the beast you are operating. Because while all the newer epa stoves/inserts have a common factor, they are also all somewhat different in their operation.
Trial and error, my friend. My advice for you is too keep trying for perfection and keep tuned to this forum..
Welp....after reading this thread, I got one today. Chimney is finally installed, I'm beat but so eager to fire this baby up. Just have to wait now for the insurance man to give me the thumbs up after an inspection. Thanks to all you guys/gals on here. Couldn't have installed it without you all. Sometimes I hate being a "do it yourselfer"...but I figured most of you on here are probably the same way....guess that's why I like this site so much.
I'll try to extrapolate a little bit though articulation on the dynamics of the burn is NOT as easy as discussing exact, acceptable installation dimensions, materials, clearances, etc..
Because one person waits for the secondaries to kick in before reducing primary air certainly does not mean that I see secondary burn unless primary air is reduced. And some will inform you that if your glass is clean, you are burning hot enough and with seasoned enough wood. They will also be the same ones who offer special concoctions for cleaning your glass.
It's 35 degrees out right now and I seem to be having trouble getting my stove up where I want it. It's not windy. My wood is below 20% moisture level and I have a good bed of coals. What is different is that this load conists of many small chunks and end pieces which are not normally burned. This is just another example of how easy it is to change the dynamics of any particular burn cycle.
But in staying with the topic of thermometers I offer this; For me, and I speak only for my situation (as you will become familiar with your own), the flu temp will not always dictate the actual stove temp that I want before I start to close down the primary air which "sets" the secondaries and gives me the prolonged, sustained temperature burn, required for my conditons at that particular time. With a stove temp of 300-450 degrees, my flue temp will read about 300 degrees once the primary is slowed. On the other hand, the flue temp may read just about anything, depending on conditions, before I know what the actual stove temperature is.
On my stove, again, my stove, and within the dynamics of my set-up, my secondaries will kick in at 300 degrees stove temp, only with the reduction of primary air though. Depending on the outside temperature, the load of wood, etc., this may be sustainable throughout the entire burn or not. These are some of those, way too many, dynamics which each person comes to learn for their own stove if they want to.
By manipulating both stove temp, and flue temp (using the by-pass mainly), I can get the maximum results my stove has to offer. It certainly is weird getting used to, but is already becoming second nature for me after only eight years (just kidding).
Wow, that hurt my head. Hope it helps!
Because one person waits for the secondaries to kick in before reducing primary air certainly does not mean that I see secondary burn unless primary air is reduced. And some will inform you that if your glass is clean, you are burning hot enough and with seasoned enough wood. They will also be the same ones who offer special concoctions for cleaning your glass.
It's 35 degrees out right now and I seem to be having trouble getting my stove up where I want it. It's not windy. My wood is below 20% moisture level and I have a good bed of coals. What is different is that this load conists of many small chunks and end pieces which are not normally burned. This is just another example of how easy it is to change the dynamics of any particular burn cycle.
But in staying with the topic of thermometers I offer this; For me, and I speak only for my situation (as you will become familiar with your own), the flu temp will not always dictate the actual stove temp that I want before I start to close down the primary air which "sets" the secondaries and gives me the prolonged, sustained temperature burn, required for my conditons at that particular time. With a stove temp of 300-450 degrees, my flue temp will read about 300 degrees once the primary is slowed. On the other hand, the flue temp may read just about anything, depending on conditions, before I know what the actual stove temperature is.
On my stove, again, my stove, and within the dynamics of my set-up, my secondaries will kick in at 300 degrees stove temp, only with the reduction of primary air though. Depending on the outside temperature, the load of wood, etc., this may be sustainable throughout the entire burn or not. These are some of those, way too many, dynamics which each person comes to learn for their own stove if they want to.
By manipulating both stove temp, and flue temp (using the by-pass mainly), I can get the maximum results my stove has to offer. It certainly is weird getting used to, but is already becoming second nature for me after only eight years (just kidding).
Wow, that hurt my head. Hope it helps!
so in "dumb" language, you're adjusting the by-pass damper to get the flue temp you wnat to increase draw in the stove, getting it to a hotter tomp? I always just shut the damper when the stove is hot enough and left it there. You're thinking increased effeciency?
pyro68 said:
You talking to me? Yes, yes, and no.
Yes- I may or may not need the by-pass to get the flu hotter, which increases draw, getting the stove hotter.
Yes- I also shut the damper completely, when the stove is hot enough.
No- I'm not thinking increased efficiency as the damn thing does that just fine at a lower temp (stove top 300 in my case). I'm talking about increased performance. Do I want it to go through it's cycle kicking out 300 degrees or 600 degrees, or something in between. I need two thermostats to tell me that. The exact correlation between the two? I haven't got a stinking clue. All I know is that I do use two and sometimes they read the same, more often they don't. I think fozzil was going to offer up some statistically analyzed log sheets?
Remember, I got a big stove in a small room. The stick candles in the wall sconce on the opposite wall have partially melted over and like Alice in Wonderland, Mr. & Mrs. Candle are always kind enough to point me to the wood stove.
EatenByLimestone said:
For that I have the big 5" face thermometer. That way I can see it from my lawn chair on the deck.
Where on the stove are you placing the magnetic thermometer? I've read the thread, and I'll admit I'm confused. Are you placing it on the "lower" part or the "upper" part, which would be the radiant vs. convection surface, if I am understanding things correctly? Thanks!
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