Difficult (i.e., expensive) installation?

[Bombu]

Hello, I've gotten lots of good information reading here. I've just joined this forum hoping for help with my situation. Thank you for your attention and advice.

I have a brand new 27' x 52' Energy Star manufactured home about 4 miles inland from the Oregon coast. It has a standing seam metal roof. I have several acres of mostly Douglas fir.

I want a wood stove and I am leaning towards a Blaze King Ashford 20.2. I'll be getting an estimate in a week but I just talked to the estimator on the phone. I told him I wanted the flue to pass through the wall because I don't want to penetrate the roof. He tried to discourage that. I had expected that a through wall installation would be vertical beyond the edge of the eaves but he said it would have to "notch" the eaves and that they didn't like to do that. It's a full service heating contractor company and he would rather install a mini split heat pump. I have nothing against the idea of getting a heat pump but I want to be able to stay warm when the power is interrupted, plus we've almost always had a fireplace or stove and we don't want to give that up.

I've seen pictures online where people use elbows to clear the eaves. I've also seen an installation where the homeowner poured a concrete pad to support the pipe outside the house. (I know "stove pipe" isn't the right term for the piping outside the house).

If money wasn't an object I wouldn't have a manufactured home. I understand that having elbows isn't ideal but I really don't like the idea of penetrating the roof.

If anyone has any input or advice or other wisdom and experience to share it will be most appreciated.

 

[kborndale]

Straight up is always best. Every turn in your flue reduces draft with a straight up exhaust on a BK you have to have 15 feet from the top of the stove to the chimney cap. That is the minimum. Once you put in elbows you are going to need at least a 17 foot flue to have enough draft. How long will your exhaust be? If over 17 feet you should be ok without penetrating the roof, but why bother? Just go straight up.

 

[30WCF]

Go through the roof. Save on time, efficiency, money, maintenance, end of life replacement parts, it’s all better.
Just like in a truck or boat, that first hole is always the hardest one to drill.
I’d rather replace a piece of standing seam if I didn’t like it than patch holes in my wall and siding.

 

[begreen]

The installer is providing good advice. Go straight up. This is particularly important in order to achieve decent draft if the flue system is going to be on the shorter side.

 

[bholler]

Hello, I've gotten lots of good information reading here. I've just joined this forum hoping for help with my situation. Thank you for your attention and advice.

I have a brand new 27' x 52' Energy Star manufactured home about 4 miles inland from the Oregon coast. It has a standing seam metal roof. I have several acres of mostly Douglas fir.

I want a wood stove and I am leaning towards a Blaze King Ashford 20.2. I'll be getting an estimate in a week but I just talked to the estimator on the phone. I told him I wanted the flue to pass through the wall because I don't want to penetrate the roof. He tried to discourage that. I had expected that a through wall installation would be vertical beyond the edge of the eaves but he said it would have to "notch" the eaves and that they didn't like to do that. It's a full service heating contractor company and he would rather install a mini split heat pump. I have nothing against the idea of getting a heat pump but I want to be able to stay warm when the power is interrupted, plus we've almost always had a fireplace or stove and we don't want to give that up.

I've seen pictures online where people use elbows to clear the eaves. I've also seen an installation where the homeowner poured a concrete pad to support the pipe outside the house. (I know "stove pipe" isn't the right term for the piping outside the house).

If money wasn't an object I wouldn't have a manufactured home. I understand that having elbows isn't ideal but I really don't like the idea of penetrating the roof.

If anyone has any input or advice or other wisdom and experience to share it will be most appreciated.

I'm with your installer as well straight up is the way to go

 

[Bombu]

I appreciate the input. I'll take it under advisement. I do have some extra standing seam roof pieces.

I was looking for additional input and I described the situation to my good friend, ChatGPT. As always, it gave me good solid advice as shown in the drawing it produced, which is now my avatar. It may not accurately represent the real world situation but it does reflect my level of confusion.

 

[Sealcove]

Same to all above and I also went through a brand new standing seem roof. Zero regrets. My current chimney install has been there since 2008. I am on the Maine coast with snow, wind and rain. Zero issues.

 

[EbS-P]

It’s hard to beat a heatpump and wood stove combination. There are days/mornings when I don’t want to mess with a fire.

Unless the stove room is small I would chose the 30 series. It would Be a challenge to get 12 hour burns on 20 when it’s cold.

 

[stoveliker]

I have a much less insulated and sealed home, 1700 sq ft plus 825 basement where the stove is
At 5-10 F nights last week I still got 12 hrs out of a load of oak with the 2.9 cu ft of a 30 model.
I think 12 hrs is doable with a 20 box in the energy star home described.

But, the low output of the two models is about the same, so why not take a 30 model, get the same BTU range (a bit higher on the high side) and 50% more fuel in the tank and thus 50% longer burns time...

 

[Bombu]

The living room (where the stove will be) and kitchen are one 530 sq ft open area at one end of the house. There's a hallway down to the middle to the 156 sq ft master bedroom at the other end. The first room off the hallway from the living room is an 87 sq ft office type space with no door and a 6 ft wide opening to the hallway.

If I'm going straight up through the roof I could consider putting the stove against the wall between the living room and office space near the hallway. I guess that might be cheaper because of less flue outside and more less expensive stove pipe inside? But then I suppose the outside air intake would have to penetrate the insulation under the floor through the belly cloth into the crawl space and then a duct to the edge to get outside air (or is the crawlspace air ok?) which doesn't seem wonderful. There are lots of windows in the living room so there aren't a lot of options about where to place it.

It has a vaulted ceiling so it seems the hot air rising would be easy to blow down the hallway ceiling and the master bedroom has a grate over the door (for the whole house fan system, I guess).

It also has electric forced air with ducts in every room. The most likely stove location has a floor duct next to it so I fantasize about using fans to suck hot air in and fans to blow it out in the other rooms.

Yes, the Blaze King 30 models turn down almost as far as the 20s. It would also be convenient to be able to use larger pieces of wood. Another local dealer sells the Ashford 20.2 for $3971 and the 30.2 for $4334. I'll get estimates for both with installation next week. I guess $360 is a relatively small fraction of the total cost.

Again, thank you all for your input!

Since nobody has weighed in defending the through wall installation I'm close to conceding on that. Is there nobody who will defend through wall installation?

 

[stoveliker]

It can work, but only if the pipe beyond that is tall enough.
For each foot if horizontal run, add 2 ft of height to the minimum recommended, and for each elbow too.

If you need 15 ft minimum, and have a 2 ft horizontal run, you end up with a minimum of 21 ft. That's tall for a single story home... Would look very awkward (unless you tie a fake rocket to it ready to take off).

 

[crstrode]

Even with your chimney in the proper location at the peak of the roof, it is strongly advised to have a minimum height of 16 feet from the top of the stove to the top of the chimney. Any less and you will not be happy with a low-burn operation. In your small, well insulated house, operating a Blaze King at minimum heat will be the norm.

In your situation, there is no valid defense of a through-the-wall installation.

Oh- and by the way, this situation is not in any way difficult, and will be less expensive than most.

 

[30WCF]

There may be a rule about how close you can be to a vent or return.

I think the OAK has to go outside or it would be a CAK. I kid, but yes, outside.

 

[begreen]

If the home has a fully ventilated crawlspace then it's ok to use crawlspace air. With a vaulted ceiling the install should use double-walled stove pipe inside. Also, a ceiling fan or two is highly recommended to help circulate hot air that will trap up the ceiling peak.

 

[Bombu]

Ok, I'm convinced. I hereby abandon the notion of a through wall installation.

Next, I need to decide where to place the stove. The location I had considered for the through wall installation still has a lot of appeal. It's a nice spot for it in the room. The outside air supply could still come through the wall. One potential downside is perhaps the chimney height. It wouldn't have the extra length required to compensate for elbows or horizontal sections but it would still be passing through less roof, being near the edge, so it might still be awkward looking and, I presume, less robust because of the longer lever arm of flue above the roof. Also, I gather, near the peak is more better, although I don't know why. Nearer the peak would be inside the shell for another 3 feet or so, (It's a 4:12 pitch), so the chimney outside would be shorter. The crawlspace is vented but I may encapsulate it someday but I could always add a duct to the outside wall. Really, though, I don't much like the idea of putting a hole through the floor and the fiberglass insulation and the belly cloth that seals up the bottom of the house. Also, it's inconvenient to inspect under the house. It will be even more inconvenient in years to come. Now, at age 70, I still get around down there pretty well but, unfortunately, that will change.

So, near the long edge of the house is more appealing to me. Is there a great advantage to placing it nearer the peak?

I will also need to decide between the Blaze King 20 series and the 30s. Interestingly, I found that there are discrepancies in the reported figures for heat output. The EPA says the 30s go from 10094 to 36076 BTUs/hr and the 20s from 10786 to 31092 - (the 30s get lower than the 20s!) The BK brochures and website disagree: for the 20s 11342 to 28355 and the 30s 11993 to 35980 (website) or 10641 to 37742 (brochure). I don't consider this important or anything to base a decision on but I find it interesting.

Again, thank you for your attention and advice. Please feel free to ignore my long winded posts.

 

[stoveliker]

As long as you get enough flue height it's going to be fine.
Less outside means a bit less cool down (if using double wall pipe inside, as you should).
But if it would work best for you at the wall, going straight up with a longer pipe outside is fine. That's what pipe braces every 5 ft are for.

Unless you get a lot of snow, that slides down against the pipe. Or a lot (LOT) of wind, then I'd go for the shorter pipe higher up.

 

[begreen]

Less exterior exposure means less cooling of the flue gases, less cost for expensive chimney pipe and its bracing, and visually it's a lot nicer. A shorter chimney also means there is also less wind leverage on the pipe if the home is exposed to coastal storms off of the Pacific.