diesel war?

[ditchrider]

One thing that I would want to be really, really sure of with any future diesel that I might buy was simplicity and serviceability/ maintenance costs over time. Old diesels were stone-axe simple and easy to maintain but some of the new ones can be idiotically complex in my opinion (like the newer Ford Super Duty diesels that need to have the cab lifted off for any degree of significant engine work). Both performance and fuel economy become moot if long term costs of ownership or repair crater due to overcomplexity.

A buddy and I were talking about this topic many years ago. I think he put it pretty plain when he said "We had in our hands a perfect, self sufficient machine (the diesel engine) and some a$$h@le has to f*!& it up with electricity"

 

[Foragefarmer]

One thing that I would want to be really, really sure of with any future diesel that I might buy was simplicity and serviceability/ maintenance costs over time. Old diesels were stone-axe simple and easy to maintain but some of the new ones can be idiotically complex in my opinion (like the newer Ford Super Duty diesels that need to have the cab lifted off for any degree of significant engine work). Both performance and fuel economy become moot if long term costs of ownership or repair crater due to overcomplexity.

I think the EPA has made that impossible at this point. I am in favor of cleaner running vehicles but not at the cost fuel economy which is what has happened with diesel trucks and any heavy equipment needing to be tier 4 compliant like tractors.

 

[pybyr]

What was the MPG of that big Dodge? Should've been comparable to your Tacoma, even towing a few Tacomas out back....

My Dad's '03 2500HD 4x4 Duramax (LB6) routinely gets near 20 MPG average and breaks that routinely for highway travel.

My '06 Ram 5.9 Cummins came with 4.10 axles+ auto transmission, which, unfortunately, meant 14-15 MPG in summer and less (11-12) in cold weather, and it was incredibly slow to warm up in the winter, even for a diesel (ran great but unless it had been plugged in, took 8-10 miles before heat or defrost began to work). The MPG combined with the way that diesel started to exceed the cost of gas (and stayed that way) negated any advantage, even though I like diesels (a lot) in many ways. I should have held out/ searched for a stickshift 5.9 with 3.55 axles (though gearshifts had already become scarce and almost a special order even in diesels, to my disappointment), if I'd fully known how much of a difference that would have made- I probably would have been getting in the 20s and would probably still have it. Plus, even though I like big, sturdy vehicles, the 2500 Ram was a bit ridiculous to try to park in many situations. Tacoma gets 18-20 MPG pretty reliably, which beats 14 and the higher cost of diesel.

 

[pybyr]

Whoa there. You switched from a mind blowingly powerful truck that was very capable, large, and comfortable, that got nearly 20 mpg to a mini-truck with way less power, smaller, and less comfortable with the same mpg and you are happy about that? Did you make this change knowingly?

see my other follow up about the 4.10 gears in the Dodge and resulting disappointingly/ surprisingly unimpressive MPG

 

[Highbeam]

see my other follow up about the 4.10 gears in the Dodge and resulting disappointingly/ surprisingly unimpressive MPG

If you could only muster 14-15 mpg and you have no need for a big truck then yes, a gasser makes more sense. I will say that 14-15 is not typical at all when you ask a late model 5.9 owner about mpg.

 

[ditchrider]

If you could only muster 14-15 mpg and you have no need for a big truck then yes, a gasser makes more sense. I will say that 14-15 is not typical at all when you ask a late model 5.9 owner about mpg.

95 ram 3/4ton. I typically get 17-18 in the summer. It'll drop to around 13 when I'm pulling a trailer. But on the highway I keep it under 70, that's just a smidge under 2000 rpm. Just another 5 mph costs me significantly in fuel mileage, at least 4 mpg, whether I'm loaded or not.

 

[lukem]

500 lb ft in a half ton? 5.0? V8?

Talk about missing the mark. Give me 350....3ish...and 4 in a row.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I owned one of the last 5.9L Dodge Cummins trucks (06) (before they went to the newer engine) and it was mind-blowingly powerful (325 HP and 625 ft/lb of torque at low/ mid RPM!) at reasonably good MPG, though I'd have gladly had 1/2 the HP and torque in exchange for much higher MPG.

Now I drive a 4 liter gas Tacoma and am pleased with 19MPG with very good performance, but would be grinning wildly if I could have torque and MPG of a modest sized diesel in a Tacoma size truck.

There keep being rumors of a Mahindra diesel pickup coming to the US, which could be really interesting, but it keeps dissipating back into vaporware.

One thing that I would want to be really, really sure of with any future diesel that I might buy was simplicity and serviceability/ maintenance costs over time. Old diesels were stone-axe simple and easy to maintain but some of the new ones can be idiotically complex in my opinion (like the newer Ford Super Duty diesels that need to have the cab lifted off for any degree of significant engine work). Both performance and fuel economy become moot if long term costs of ownership or repair crater due to overcomplexity.

this

 

[salecker]

Yep. Another one of my vehicles along the way was an 89 F350 4WD toolbox body non-turbo 7.3 indirect injected diesel- got 14-16 mpg carrying nothing, and 14-16 MPG loaded to the gills and hauling a trailer... not a lot of power but it didn't seem to care what it was pulling

My truck is like that 90 6.2 NA i ton 4x4 crewcab 17 MPG empty or pulling a trailer.Not much power but cheep to run and cheep parts if you need them.Best of all no computer.
Thomas

 

[MasterMech]

My truck is like that 90 6.2 NA i ton 4x4 crewcab 17 MPG empty or pulling a trailer.Not much power but cheep to run and cheep parts if you need them.Best of all no computer.
Thomas

My truck is the same way. MPG hardly changes regardless of load. But the number is 7 not 17.

 

[Kevin*]

I'm waiting for the VW Rabbit Pickup to come back.......without all the anti-smog crap we have to contend with these days. I had a 1985 Jetta diesel that was just about perfect.

I just took that smog stuff off my '08 ram and that 6.7 cummins run better than ever and a 5 mpg gain.

 

[MasterMech]

5 mpg gain.

Which is probably better for overall emissions and efficiency than all that smog gear was anyways!

 

[Highbeam]

I just took that smog stuff off my '08 ram and that 6.7 cummins run better than ever and a 5 mpg gain.

This same story is often repeated with the ford powerstrokes from the same era. Some genius decided to put a soot filter on the exhaust pipe. Seriously, a big honking filter that has to have fuel dumped into it on occasion to burn off the soot.

The old 6.2 and other non turbo diesels were super gutless. Like 140 HP gutless and with weak three speed auto trannies or 4 speed manuals. There were a few years in the history of diesels that you could get lots of turbo power, high mpg, little or no emissions junk, and dependable but it was just too good to last.

 

[Shadow&Flame]

I am still patiently waiting for my 'true' compact 4x4 diesel truck....

 

[Kevin*]

I am still patiently waiting for my 'true' compact 4x4 diesel truck....

You could buy the ford ranger if you have a friend in mexico. My aunt has a vacation home there and if I didn't need a heavy truck thats what I would get.

 

[Shadow&Flame]

You could buy the ford ranger if you have a friend in mexico. My aunt has a vacation home there and if I didn't need a heavy truck thats what I would get.

I have thought about doing something like that, but wonder about not being able to get it licensed here. Don't have anyone in Mexico anyway....
I did have...my best friend married a Mexican girl. He died of Cancer at 35yrs old...

 

[Foragefarmer]

I have thought about doing something like that, but wonder about not being able to get it licensed here. Don't have anyone in Mexico anyway....
I did have...my best friend married a Mexican girl. He died of Cancer at 35yrs old...

The truck needs to be 25+ years old. It is then considered a "classic" and then doesn't have to meet Gov. safety or emissions standards. I know someone who just imported a Land Rover Defender Turbo Diesel from Italy that is an 1986 and road legal.
There are companies that are importing low milage diesel Toyota Hilux and Land Cruisers as well as others but they are not cheap when you consider they are 25 years old or older.

 

[charly]

I'm waiting for the VW Rabbit Pickup to come back.......without all the anti-smog crap we have to contend with these days. I had a 1985 Jetta diesel that was just about perfect.

I had a VW diesel pickup,, what a handy vehicle that was.... I'm waiting to see what the new diesel Dodge and Nissian get for real fuel mileage. Just made a 5 hour trip from Schoharie, NY to Saco, Maine with my 2004 one ton Dodge diesel..5 spd, std. 23.8 mpg on the overhead trip gauge and used only a 1/4 tank. Took the back way as well, lots of hills..

 

[Highbeam]

with my 2004 one ton Dodge diesel..5 spd, std. 23.8 mpg on the overhead trip gauge and used only a 1/4 tank. Took the back way as well, lots of hills..

They still make 5 speeds? I thought they were all 6.

 

[charly]

They still make 5 speeds? I thought they were all 6.

Yup, mine is a 5 speed, final drive is the same as the 6 speed, just gave you some more range on the gears going up..

 

[charly]

They still make 5 speeds? I thought they were all 6.

I'll tell you a real funny story,,, We bought a used 81 diesel rabbit.. Shifter knob top had no really good visible numbers.. After the wife driving the car for two years, one day while I was driving the car I said to my wife that a friend that drove us to our line clearing job doing tree work had a diesel Jetta with a 5 speed.. I then pushed in the clutch and at the same time said 5th would be right here,,,, and there it was!! Here with no numbers I figured we had a 4 speed as you could barely see anything... Wow did we laugh.. Neither one of us ever tried for 5 th gear.. They had made 4 and 5 speeds back then..

 

[Ashful]

Yup, mine is a 5 speed, final drive is the same as the 6 speed, just gave you some more range on the gears going up..

Funny story on the VW! I'll say that I'm not a fan of these 6 speeds. If they had kept 5th were it always was, and made the 6th a higher ratio gear, I'd have been much happier. I didn't need more middle gears to hunt between first and top gear.

Now, my 6-speed truck screams 3000+ RPM, just like my old 5-speed truck, going down the highway at any civilized speed. Stupid.

 

[Highbeam]

I'll tell you a real funny story,,, We bought a used 81 diesel rabbit.. Shifter knob top had no really good visible numbers.. After the wife driving the car for two year, one day while I was driving the car I said to my wife that a friend that drove us to our line clearing job doing tree work had a diesel Jetta with a 5 speed.. I then pushed in the clutch and at the same time said 5th would be right here,,,, and there it was!! Here with no numbers I figured we had a 4 speed as you could barely see anything... Wow did we laugh.. Neither one of us ever tried for 5 th gear.. They had made 4 and 5 speeds back then..

Oh yes, I had a VW 5 speed from 1980. Complete with the push down to get to reverse. Though I knew it was a 5 speed on that golfball dimpled shift knob. Mine was a scirroco

 

[charly]

Oh yes, I had a VW 5 speed from 1980. Complete with the push down to get to reverse. Though I knew it was a 5 speed on that golfball dimpled shift knob. Mine was a scirroco

They were good cars except for head gaskets,, and got great mileage. I think we paid 500 dollars for a 6 year old diesel Rabbit.. The good old days, and diesel was cheap! Found out later that new head bolts and a re torque after running the motor kept the head gaskets from leaking... I even bought the dial indicator for the pump , locking plate for the cam and the pump pin lock, all for under 200 dollars... Life was simple back then...

 

[basod]

Hopefully someone out there is listening but the reason I've figured a 1/2T "eco" diesel hasn't hit the states is cost and emissions.
I looked at the chevy website today and a duramax/Allison option is 7200+1200.
They plan on introducing a Cruz diesel with 42mpg highway(could be 55+ with the right mosfets and tinkering ) the pictures of the little diesel vs the duramax scream complicated.