OK, here's another photo from the same chain. Nothing unconventional in the gullet, just regular filing there. All the mods are to the raker and to the back 1/3 of the cutter plate. Actually, the guy who brought this into carving uses a Dremel with a flat wheel (#420) on a mandrel to do both all of the grinding, including the sharpening. He calls it the "Happy Saw" method. Google it and Dave Tremko and it is on the net. He does do something to the gullet when he sharpens, but I forget. I know it is supposed to give a longer cutting edge on the side of the cutter. He did a chain for me and I didn't really like it, it was pretty grabby. He also doesn't sharpen his rakers, he just does what Lee is talking about and knocks them over a tad. One of his students came up with the sharpened raker thing. His name is just "Link". Not after the chain part, that's his actual surname. :lol:
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Battenkiller said:
MMAUL does carving as well. Not much different other than really hammering the top plate.
Hey, look what I found. Here is a video of a seminar I attended last February down in Ridgway, PA. Lady BK and I were standing back by the camera man. It was about 15ºF out there. Notice what Dave is wearing? He's a Native Aleut, so he don't understand what coats in winter are all about. lol
"Chainsaw Jack" McEntire demos the durable Sioux carving bar, then deliberately runs the chain into a nail. Dave sharpens the chain in two minutes, then quick carves a bear in five more. He gives a pretty good explanation of what his method is all about, so I'll let him do the talkin'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2jSYJOle_I&feature=related
Notice how well that little 200 rips through that frozen pine (before the fast-motion part) after he sharpens it. I tried that same saw later on that day and it is a little screamer, way more powerful feeling than a 192, plus twice as fast on the throttle response.
EDIT:
I don't know why, but the video is starting about 2/3 of the way through. Just drag the slider back to the beginning for the whole video.
"Chainsaw Jack" McEntire demos the durable Sioux carving bar, then deliberately runs the chain into a nail. Dave sharpens the chain in two minutes, then quick carves a bear in five more. He gives a pretty good explanation of what his method is all about, so I'll let him do the talkin'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2jSYJOle_I&feature=related
Notice how well that little 200 rips through that frozen pine (before the fast-motion part) after he sharpens it. I tried that same saw later on that day and it is a little screamer, way more powerful feeling than a 192, plus twice as fast on the throttle response.
EDIT:
I don't know why, but the video is starting about 2/3 of the way through. Just drag the slider back to the beginning for the whole video.
smokinjay said:
Man, he should come to Ridgway next year, he'd love it. You and your GF too, if you can. It's the biggest chainsaw carving event in the world. Last year there were almost 200 carvers from as far away as Norway, Italy and even carvers from Japan. Lots of saws (tiny to huge) to play around with, plenty of free logs to carve, free breakfast every morning at the seminars (and free leftovers at the main carving venue), advice from experienced carvers all the time, $5 dinners (all you can eat), free t-shirt with the names of all the attendees on the back (including your own)... all for a $10 entry fee. All you have to do is try to make a decent carving that they auction off to get enough money to do it all again next year. Lee came last year to check it out but I missed connecting with him because we got such a late start due to that big storm that rolled though the area. He should come as well, but grab a log this time and carve something. He'd be a natural. Anyway, it's a blast!
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That's very interesting angle the side of the racker up, I will have to try that. The dremel was just a standard cut off blade, I cant see sharpening a chain like that and making any sharper then a file, but I do have some old chains I could practice on. Very cool video, thanks for posting.
MMaul said:
He was only doing the top plate with that....
Cut the raker first grind the gullet (cyclone wheel) the top plate last easy peasy!
In the video it looked like he was grinding up the side and across the top. especially when he flips the saw around.
MMaul said:
Yea I would break it down a little different. Look at the chain he posted. Much more accurate for the gullet to machine it. The top plate and raker is the difference's. Just my take on it you know I will put the 511a in to play! :cheese:
Just think you would have a better chain to brake it down into steps.
I got gear! :cheese:
Here's a clearer video of Dave doing his thing.
http://seethewolfpack.com/Sharpen.php
He goes from the cutter plate down through the side down to the bottom of the gullet. He tries to get more cutting edge out of the side, but I really don't think that accomplishes much since that area is inside of the main kerf. If it does make any difference, then that's something you can't easily accomplish in any other way, certainly not with a straight pass of the file. He's also pretty sloppy with the grinding at times and cuts right down into the bottom of the cutter and the tie strap on the other side (at least he did on the chain he did for me), but they cut like the wind and it's fast to do. You can look at these videos all day long, but the proof is out there in the cutting. I've tried his chains and they are fast, but a little rough for detail work. Lots of guys out there in the carving world were born with sawdust in their pockets and really know saws inside and out and they got converted over to this way because it just works.
One problem is it's not a good method for the bush unless you have a cordless Dremel. Electric stuff is nice and grinders give very repeatable results if you have good gear and it's set up right. Personally, I like being good with a file. The guy I learned from does the same basic grind, but he does it with a file and a small sanding disc on his angle grinder (only when the chain is new, for the rakers). That method needs no power from cord nor battery. Just a roast beef samich and a Hershey's bar to fuel the sharpener.
http://seethewolfpack.com/Sharpen.php
He goes from the cutter plate down through the side down to the bottom of the gullet. He tries to get more cutting edge out of the side, but I really don't think that accomplishes much since that area is inside of the main kerf. If it does make any difference, then that's something you can't easily accomplish in any other way, certainly not with a straight pass of the file. He's also pretty sloppy with the grinding at times and cuts right down into the bottom of the cutter and the tie strap on the other side (at least he did on the chain he did for me), but they cut like the wind and it's fast to do. You can look at these videos all day long, but the proof is out there in the cutting. I've tried his chains and they are fast, but a little rough for detail work. Lots of guys out there in the carving world were born with sawdust in their pockets and really know saws inside and out and they got converted over to this way because it just works.
One problem is it's not a good method for the bush unless you have a cordless Dremel. Electric stuff is nice and grinders give very repeatable results if you have good gear and it's set up right. Personally, I like being good with a file. The guy I learned from does the same basic grind, but he does it with a file and a small sanding disc on his angle grinder (only when the chain is new, for the rakers). That method needs no power from cord nor battery. Just a roast beef samich and a Hershey's bar to fuel the sharpener.
Battenkiller said:
Yep, I was thinking the same-thing. I feel that all the cutter's being the same (grinder work) and free handing that top plate and raker, that's enough free hand work. If I didn't have a grinder I would just file the gullet first then connect the top plate with dremal on a 2nd step. Leaning curve would be alot easier and a chain that would still cut stright when you needed it to.
I've been shaving the sides of my rakers for 20+ years and thought I was the only one who ever did it. Never even seen guys do it in GOL competitions. I just kept it my own little secret to have an edge up but I guess word is out now.
I like his method but I don't think I could hold a dremmel steady enough to get the quality he's getting. I know I can hand sharpen as fast as hes grinding though and more accurate.
I like his method but I don't think I could hold a dremmel steady enough to get the quality he's getting. I know I can hand sharpen as fast as hes grinding though and more accurate.
Sounds like a funny bahastid. I'm going to try that on the chain I just fixed up- it's nearly trashed anyway- may as well espurmint.
Adios Pantalones said:
Not sure that I would do a work saw chain that complicated....lol But on the other hand why Not! :cheese:
Adios Pantalones said:
Dave is great. He's my favorite carver dude so far. Some guys get into carving because you can make a ton of money once you get known. There are guys out there pulling in six figures doing something you don't even need a high school diploma for. Dave's got a simpler philosophy to life:
"If I wake up and I have paper money in my pocket, I kick back in the sun and drink beer and smoke cigarettes all day long. If I wake up and all I have is coin in my pocket.... time to start carving."
I wish I could be that carefree.
BTW this is a pretty radical mod if you actually sharpen the rakers to an edge. Like I said, the net effect is that they penetrate deeper into the wood, so it is like lowering your rakers. Some guys I've talked to wait until the rakers need lowering to try this, and instead of lowering the rakers they just sharpen them. Unless you are really experienced with kickback, I wouldn't go using this on a regular bar in a situation where you might make strong contact with the tip on a powerful saw. I was a little reticent to bring it up in the first place because it is a much more aggressive grind that it may seem to be just by looking at the photos. I only use it on carving bars, which are for all intent kickback-free. Maybe put on one of those little pruning bars to start with. Anyway, proceed with caution, seriously.
Thanks for the warning- my rakers are too low right now, so this would have to wait. I have *some* experience cutting, and it's a 260 pro- not a big boy, but it doesn't sound like this is really going to help me. I have a Dremel adapter for sharpening that I like but have been hand filing because it's fast. This sharpening with the dremel wheel looks like a winner.
Adios Pantalones said:
That's the main thing here. I'm sure it takes a little practice, but Dave has gotten pretty fast at this as you can see. He sharpened dozens of chains for folks for free every day at Ridgway, and still had time to make enough carvings at the event for his auction piece, a benefit carve for the widow of a carver near me who passed away last fall, and carvings enough to sell at the show to pay for his flight from Alaska and back home again. Of course, he's a speed carver, so that wasn't too hard, either. That little stump bear would go for maybe $50 at a craft fair or selling by the roadside. At 5 minutes per bear, that's $600/hr. Try doing anything else with a saw that can make you that kind of money. Of course, as I said, Dave's not greedy and always quits after his beer and smokes are paid for. Leaves room for somebody else like me to try to make a little on the side.
Here's a couple more Tremko-Toons. He's a riot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts7d7u9pbU0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIBieI7bmUI
This time-lapse one ends up being a really nice eagle going after a salmon. He captures the energy and intent of the eagle real well, I think. That's a scene he's probably been lucky enough to see first hand on hundreds of occasions back home in Alaska..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TmKzUgWiRU&feature=related
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