Delivering Logs

[iceman]

This week I called the guy that trucks in my wood for me. Asked for a tri-axle of logs and tops....He laughed at me. Said that if he could get the wood I would be around number twenty in line. I never remember it being anything like this. Thank god I do my own cutting and splitting as well. Just buy a little to help my back out. Guess I will be buying a heating pad insted. I think everybody in there brother is going to burn fire wood this year. Every fire place and wood stove in North America is going to be stoked up???

I tried to tell everyone earlier in the year that wood , wood be in high demand (and pellets) this year AND at a premium price but I was shot (shoot the messenger). Now everyone is crying about high prices, including MY customers. It's a sellers market.

d



i do remember

 

[woodconvert]

Strange times indeed.....there's a higher demand for wood now than there may ever of been, but no one can afford to deliver it.

You mean high demand for firewood?...cause I don't think there is much demand for dimensional lumber.

 

[Henz]

dont forget that that maybe just be the delivering fee. The cost of the diesel for the skidders etc and the saws gas etc. The markup on firewood is much thinner than saw lumber etc.

 

[Tfin]

Strange times indeed.....there's a higher demand for wood now than there may ever of been, but no one can afford to deliver it.

You mean high demand for firewood?...cause I don't think there is much demand for dimensional lumber.

Yes, I ment firewood.

You can still get it (firewood that is) with relative ease here in Maine. It hasn't gone up that much yet. I do feel bad though for folks in more urbanized areas or locations where firewood has to be trucked in from great distances.

 

[gpcollen1]

Happily for me, and for the time being, my electric costs for my geothermal heat pump system went up about 30% last winter, not 200% as may be the case for heating oil. I'd guess electric cost, including delivery, has gone up no more than 50% over the past 10 years.

Do not count your chicken yet! My electric costs have risen 200% per kwh in 4 yrs - maybe 3. Depends on where you are located. With Oil on the rise, peak electric prices will too...

 

[gangsplatt]

Did you ever imagine that you would keep your wood supplier as secretive as your favorite backwoods fishing pond? Ordered 6 face cords to go along with the 8 face cord already on hand($70/per face cord) based on this topic I think I may consider ordering more just because of the uncertain times.

 

[Henz]

Plattsburgh, my alma matter! 1998!

 

[JustWood]

Let me give you guys an overview of why demand for wood is increasing.

First of all logging and milling is very fuel intensive.You have a site truck used to get the tools saws and men to work. 10 mpg is probably an average.
Saws. We're not talking mini-macs like you guys use to cut wood. BIG saws like Stihl 066 MAGs . A small crew probably goes through 3-5 gals/day of PREMIUM not regular.
Skidders. 5-12 gallons/hour.
Log Trucks. 10-15 gallons/hour.
Mill loaders.10-15 gallons/hour
Sawmills. Smaller mills are still run by diesel engines or diesel generators. Some big gen sets will use 20 gallons/hour. Bigger mills run on electric which some of you say is rising in price.
Dry kilns. Natural gas here but I'm not familiar with useage.
Lumber delivery trucks. 10-15 gallons/hour.

Polewood is a byproduct of logging (ie loggers don't go into the woods targeting polewood, it's something that happens to be connected to valuable logs coming out of the woods) so when the lumber industry slows there is less polewood on the market.

Secondly when mills close there is less slabwood and scraps to be had for wood burners on the cheap or looking for a quick and easy supply.

So, when the polewood supply and millwood supply are depleted guys turn to the logged off woods or tree trimmers for wood.With household budgets stretched to the max who can afford to hire a tree trimmer.When tree tops are all cleaned up and no fresh timber is being logged off where will your wood come from? In the future(I believe we're about 3-5 years minimum away from this) when cellulosic ethanol and biomass takes off you probably won't even see a branch or leaf left in the woods

If mills are slow or closed for a couple of years which I'm thinking they will be, the available wood that can be had WILL diminish. Add in the fact that MANY new wood burners will be joining the ranks and probably HEARTH too and all competing for a yearly wood supply . You guys see where I'm goin' with this.

If oil remains high we could possibly see not only Peak Oil but maybe Peak Wood!
This time don't shoot the messenger! If I'm wrong you can thank me for encouraging you to put up that 10 year supply of firewood.

 

[BrotherBart]

"So, when the polewood supply and millwood supply are depleted guys turn to the logged off woods or tree trimmers for wood.With household budgets stretched to the max who can afford to hire a tree trimmer.When tree tops are all cleaned up and no fresh timber is being logged off where will your wood come from?"

The electric company right of way crews.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Wow, electricity up that much in Western CT? Here in NJ, one of the high price electricity areas, I've been pleased at the relatively low rate of rise in price. I'd guess iis up about 50% over the last 10 years. We do on use oil here, all coal and nuclear, about 50/50. Still, I expect the cost of "energy" to drive the electric rates up even if the generation cost hasn't gone up much. Inflation is insidious, the cost of oil drives up food and clothing, the related devalued dollar drives up all other imports, so the wages at the coal and nuclear power plants goes up, so up goes the cost of electricity even if the fuel cost are relatively stable. My average winter rate is 15 cents per KWH total, including delivery. What's the going rate in Western CT?

We need to start pumping more US oil. We can do it with the minimum environmental impact, and I bet far cleaner than most of our suppliers do. Then too, those $$ going to unfriendly suppliers will be reduced, i.e., reduces the balance of trade, increases the value of the $$, reduces the price of imported oil...still our influential home grown n-ts Gore/Soros/Fonda...et al. will continue to (over) protect the environment and we'll soon remember how nice it was when gas was only $4.

 

[Henz]

LEES-WOOD CO has it about right if you ask me.Obviously it will be worse in some places and not that bad in others. I probably have a lifetime of wood supply on my 50 acres so I am not too concerned, but those who dont have that luxery, I feel for you!

 

[savageactor7]

Here in CNY North country firewood is selling 10 face cords or more at $62 for seasoned and $52 for unseasoned. They have a truck that can handle 14 FC's. I'm out in the country and usually we can get a better deal in the Pennsaver from guys cutting wood to supplement their unemployment insurance...but that's iffy.

North country firewood has been in business as long as I can remember so they have a reputation, and a good one too ...besides the usual legitimate business expenses. so sure their wood is a little higher. But if you buy the green wood and stay ahead of the game...$52 is not a bad number from what I see others paying on this forum.

Just for the record I cut my own wood and it's worth more to me than $62 a FC. I've found ways to make it easy and even fun but truthfully it's the hardest work I've ever done. If we didn't have our own wood right out our back door I be burning coal. Coal is bullet proof... all you need is a pad to dump it on...rain or snow doesn't bother it at all.

 

[RedRanger]

LEES-WOOD CO has it about right if you ask me.Obviously it will be worse in some places and not that bad in others. I probably have a lifetime of wood supply on my 50 acres so I am not too concerned, but those who dont have that luxery, I feel for you!

Am I mistaken? Or were you contemplating logging off all 50 acres and replanting with hardwood? I`m thinking about a post a couple of months ago. Anyway, if you are still thinking about that plan? Way things are going today, I would scrap that plan. and if you must log? maybe leave half of it standing,even if it is pine and other softwoods.

With the scramble for firewood, that pine will smell real sweet in years to come.

 

[Carl]

Wow, electricity up that much in Western CT? Here in NJ, one of the high price electricity areas, I've been pleased at the relatively low rate of rise in price. I'd guess iis up about 50% over the last 10 years. We do on use oil here, all coal and nuclear, about 50/50. Still, I expect the cost of "energy" to drive the electric rates up even if the generation cost hasn't gone up much. Inflation is insidious, the cost of oil drives up food and clothing, the related devalued dollar drives up all other imports, so the wages at the coal and nuclear power plants goes up, so up goes the cost of electricity even if the fuel cost are relatively stable. My average winter rate is 15 cents per KWH total, including delivery. What's the going rate in Western CT?

We need to start pumping more US oil. We can do it with the minimum environmental impact, and I bet far cleaner than most of our suppliers do. Then too, those $$ going to unfriendly suppliers will be reduced, i.e., reduces the balance of trade, increases the value of the $$, reduces the price of imported oil...still our influential home grown n-ts Gore/Soros/Fonda...et al. will continue to (over) protect the environment and we'll soon remember how nice it was when gas was only $4.

Fuel prices will keep going up no matter how much oil we have or pump from the US. I am glad for people like Gore and others that can see beyond the basic profit money problem. Without our natural beauty in this country we would have nothing. Just my opinion and not a flame.

 

[N/A N/A]

So what do we think about buring the soft woods like pine and the others??? Is that a head ache in the making or is that ok to do? Maybe eighteen years worth of seasoning? I dont know. Was always told not to do it. But I can get my hands on some fresh cut evergreen of sort? In a pinch?

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Pine and Fir are burned all the time in the North West and elsewhere. I understand a couple years of seasoning is best.

 

[BrotherBart]

Pine is burned a lot by at least one guy in the Mid-Atlantic. Me. Burned pine all of October, April and May and let the oak rest in the pile. I cut split and stacked a half cord of pine yesterday and have two huge ones on the slate for the next couple of weeks.


"Give me your pine, your fir,

Your huddled conifers yearning to burn free,

The wretched refuse of your screaming saw.

Send these, the softwoods, tempest-tost to me,

I burn them in my stove behind the cast iron door!"

- With apologies to Emma Lazarus

 

[billb3]

I don't have any problem burning pine here in the NE, either.

I have let a lot rot on the forest floor and taken the oak and cherry instead, but if I have time (or a fallen pine has to be removed and hauled away) it gets cut split stacked dried and burned.

I kinda like the smell of campground in January.

 

[Carl]

Pine is burned a lot by at least one guy in the Mid-Atlantic. Me. Burned pine all of October, April and May and let the oak rest in the pile. I cut split and stacked a half cord of pine yesterday and have two huge ones on the slate for the next couple of weeks.


"Give me your pine, your fir,

Your huddled conifers yearning to burn free,

The wretched refuse of your screaming saw.

Send these, the softwoods, tempest-tost to me,

I burn them in my stove behind the cast iron door!"

- With apologies to Emma Lazarus

Wow brotherBart, you are a real poet.

We don't burn much pine in this area but I had a large one laying down so cut it up this spring and it makes fine starter wood and would probably burn quite well in the stove. Right now I am using it for the outside firepit and may not have much left by fall but I would get more if I run across it. May take a little more to keep warm with but others burn due to lack of hardwoods and it does fine for them from what I have read on this forum.

 

[Henz]

sonnyinbc, yeah I am thinking aobut it. I was given a conservative quote for $30k my take, that is only hemlock and white pine. may start in Mid November. I have been contemplating holding out, however my personal debt interest is terriable and thats really what I am trying to get our from under. So if you think about it, If I am able to clear my debt in one shot now, thats alot of interest savings over the course of time waiting for a better market. ITs all about number crunching.

The other reason is that the forester told me that If I want to manage for firewood production, which I do, I need to get rid of all the hemlock and most of the pine. These are all very large trees and the smaller hardwoods underneith are shaded big time limiting their growth potential.

 

[gpcollen1]

Wow, electricity up that much in Western CT? Here in NJ, one of the high price electricity areas, I've been pleased at the relatively low rate of rise in price. I'd guess iis up about 50% over the last 10 years. We do on use oil here, all coal and nuclear, about 50/50. Still, I expect the cost of "energy" to drive the electric rates up even if the generation cost hasn't gone up much. Inflation is insidious, the cost of oil drives up food and clothing, the related devalued dollar drives up all other imports, so the wages at the coal and nuclear power plants goes up, so up goes the cost of electricity even if the fuel cost are relatively stable. My average winter rate is 15 cents per KWH total, including delivery. What's the going rate in Western CT?

We need to start pumping more US oil. We can do it with the minimum environmental impact, and I bet far cleaner than most of our suppliers do. Then too, those $$ going to unfriendly suppliers will be reduced, i.e., reduces the balance of trade, increases the value of the $$, reduces the price of imported oil...still our influential home grown n-ts Gore/Soros/Fonda...et al. will continue to (over) protect the environment and we'll soon remember how nice it was when gas was only $4.

Electricity in NE. There is not as much reserve capacity in the NEISO system as there is in others. That is really what is going to drive the real time market and the peak prices during cold winter and hot summer months. We also have transmission issues - like some other places - where getting power to western CT, where there is tons of use, is a bear.

The transmission infrastructure in the northeast sucks in most areas and needs an overhaul. I had big daddy gov't but they need to be involved so it can actually get done instead of 10 years of Env Impact Assessments and law suits from interveners. My first winter in my house kwh cost went up. The next year the transmission charge jumped. The next, the rates jumped 20%. It has been neverending.

 

[myzamboni]

Pine is burned a lot by at least one guy in the Mid-Atlantic. Me. Burned pine all of October, April and May and let the oak rest in the pile. I cut split and stacked a half cord of pine yesterday and have two huge ones on the slate for the next couple of weeks.


"Give me your pine, your fir,

Your huddled conifers yearning to burn free,

The wretched refuse of your screaming saw.

Send these, the softwoods, tempest-tost to me,

I burn them in my stove behind the cast iron door!"

- With apologies to Emma Lazarus

Damn, BB! Great minds think alike (see my sigline for the past month)

 

[begreen]

I spent yesterday splitting all the crotches, butt pieces, knarly, bugly, fugly wood. It wasn't fun, but needed to be done. The bigger pain is trying to stack this stuff. Anyone have some special tricks for this? The pieces vary from 8" to 18" in length and are often not flat on any side.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I box the ends of a stack, and the ugly stuff goes in the middle (buld ends first with all the good stuff). After that it's puzzle-time- fatter ugly end on one facing one way, then the next one faces the other way, and on balance they're straight. Always worked for me, but that's how my dad had us do it since I was a kid.

Easier is to stack a wide Holz pile, and just throw the nasty crap in the middle.

 

[N/A N/A]

I spent yesterday splitting all the crotches, butt pieces, knarly, bugly, fugly wood. It wasn't fun, but needed to be done. The bigger pain is trying to stack this stuff. Anyone have some special tricks for this? The pieces vary from 8" to 18" in length and are often not flat on any side.

Good luck. This is a good time killer. Just went through that about three days ago. Had a large red oak taken down and got it stacked. I use the box style method (if thats what its called). I find that if I separate the good pieces from the the ones that are all banged up it seams to work better. If you try to stack the nice pie slice good splits with the boned up pieces it dont go so well. But if you stack the messed up ones together, you can usually find at least two pieces that will fit together. I always save them for last cause I dont care to do it lol. Takes alot of time and messing around. Like a giant puzzle. Good luck...get yourself a case of beer before you start...lol (as long as your not running your chain saw or splitter)