*Cringe* Sort of wish I'd gone bigger...

[EatenByLimestone]

ADK, did the insert get installed with an insulated block-off plate in the damper area?

Your next biggest bang for the buck is finding leaks and heat losses and addressing the problem at the source. Sealing leaks is generally pretty cheap. Insulation more expensive but usually worth it. That work will pay off year round. Does NYS or your area have a house energy audit program? If so, that might be a good first step.

I don't think there are any free or low cost energy audits in the area for residential customers. I believe there is one for commercial customers though.



I'm going to go against the general feel of the board and say the Englander 30 isn't all that. It is a box that contains a fire. It does that well. I like the design of the little Century much better.

 

[Ashful]

If it was said, I missed it, but is this insert your sole source of heat, or just your cheapest source of heat? If the latter, having a stove sized for the few coldest days of the year is not always the best choice.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

As I'm fighting a plunging thermometer outside, there is a part of me that wishes I had pushed harder on the wife to go with a freestanding or larger insert vs our Regency i2400 that we put in this Fall. Anyone else feel like that? Maybe it's just this artic chill!

It's on me for letting the retailer talk me out of "heating yourself out of the room" with the i3100 but when I'm struggling to keep 70 degrees in a 1600 sq ft house (that's in the room WITH the stove) and busting out all my seasoned red oak to do it, I'm fighting the feeling of buyer's remorse. I do have an exterior brick chimney that I assume is bleeding out a decent amount of heat (based on the lack of snow on it at any time).

However, I do think I have a couple of things I need to tackle this Spring to give me a leg-up:

• Roxul and/or Durock behind the insert to better capture / refract heat
• Seal around all of my windows and put door sweeps in
• Consider blow in or (gulp) spray foam insulation for this 100 year old house

Any other mid-size insert owners out there that have found ways around performance gaps in this extreme cold?

That is a great list to tackle, but if this is your first year burning, it could be your wood supply, burning all wood under 18% MC makes a big difference than burning 20- 26%, as well as the type of wood you are burning???! I don't have a block off plate but burning 3 year old red oak, beech and black locust makes the most difference from my own experiences......

 

[realstihl]

If it was said, I missed it, but is this insert your sole source of heat, or just your cheapest source of heat? If the latter, having a stove sized for the few coldest days of the year is not always the best choice.

I agree. I think I'd rather have the house tightened up and use a smaller stove than get a large stove and just plow through the wood. Just make more sense.

 

[ADK_XJ]

Do you, or do you not have a blockoff plate above the stove? If not, do it. It can make a world of difference.

I need to confirm that with the installer, I was told they were "blocking off the cap and bottom" and I saw them putting in insulation but this was well before I ever visited this forum (they should make spending 3 months on here mandatory before buying a stove) so I didn't know to ask or look for certain things.

My first order of business this Spring is to pull the unit out and, if there isn't a true block-off as outlined in threads here, put that in and Roxul all behind it. But, realistically, my schedule and the need to gather wood will limit me to doing that in the Sprint with my FIL.

 

[ADK_XJ]

ADK, did the insert get installed with an insulated block-off plate in the damper area?

Your next biggest bang for the buck is finding leaks and heat losses and addressing the problem at the source. Sealing leaks is generally pretty cheap. Insulation more expensive but usually worth it. That work will pay off year round. Does NYS or your area have a house energy audit program? If so, that might be a good first step.

Home energy audit program, huh? I am going to google that now.

 

[ADK_XJ]

I agree. I think I'd rather have the house tightened up and use a smaller stove than get a large stove and just plow through the wood. Just make more sense.

Yes, a good point and, no, it's not the only source of heat. The upside it is easily a 50-60% savings on oil this year already.

 

[ADK_XJ]

If it was said, I missed it, but is this insert your sole source of heat, or just your cheapest source of heat? If the latter, having a stove sized for the few coldest days of the year is not always the best choice.

Replied to a reply of your post accidentally first - no, it's not the sole source but, if you had asked me in October what % I was aiming for, I would have said at the time of purchase I was hoping for 3/4 of heating load or more.

Your larger point is a good one, I need to look very hard at insulation and performance improvement measures first before getting down on the unit itself. I did say that in my first post but it was mixed with some chagrin over how hard it's had to work.

 

[ADK_XJ]

I'm going to go against the general feel of the board and say the Englander 30 isn't all that. It is a box that contains a fire. It does that well. I like the design of the little Century much better.

I'm all ears, care to elaborate? If nothing else, I like to remind myself part of what I bought at twice the price of a NC-30 is a better design...

 

[begreen]

Your Regency is an insert. They cost more. The 2400i is a well built product. If you are covering all heating with the insert from say 10F outside and above, that sounds reasonably sized. At below zero temps it is helping reduce the oil bill even if it can carry the whole load. Tightening up the house will help the stove heat even better.

 

[ADK_XJ]

Your Regency is an insert. They cost more. The 2400i is a well built product. If you are covering all heating with the insert from say 10F outside and above, that sounds reasonably sized. At below zero temps it is helping reduce the oil bill even if it can carry the whole load. Tightening up the house will help the stove heat even better.

Good perspective, appreciate that. Yes, above say 10-15 F I am heating completely with the i2400 when I'm home and am happy (wife would probably not say she was happy until she was sweating in shirt sleeves). It's currently -5 (again) and I am still heating only with the insert for the night (since 4pm on top of my morning load), I'm just fighting to keep temps up above 65.

Weather like this I peak at 70 degrees In the living room / stove room right after hitting 400-500f surface temp about half an hour after getting home and putting in a fresh load, it cruises for a bit through dinner with the blower on high and a box fan going. We move to the living room for the evening, me watching the fire - my wife watching TV. About 3-3.5 hours later I am into my second cycle of loading 4 small pieces stacked NS/EW in a crib over the coals (so 8 chunks total) and cruising at from 65-68 in the living room. Rest of the house is 58-62.

I am trying to practice patience and not overload such that I have a giant pile of coals come 10:30 when I reload with a full 6-8 large splits (mix of birch, maple and oak) for the night.

I think what I'm experiencing is a mix of learning curve, realizing reasonable expectations from the product and combatting a drafty old farmhouse in the midst of a bitterly cold week.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like you are learning well. FWIW I rarely crib stack. That burns up too quickly.

 

[BradleyW]

I think what I'm experiencing is a mix of learning curve, realizing reasonable expectations from the product and combatting a drafty old farmhouse in the midst of a bitterly cold week.

Pardon me for jumping in at the end, but I think you summed it up well here, and overall you are doing really well. I lived in the Western Adirondacks for three years and I can't imagine trying to heat a house there with one insert. It's just too damn cold. People in Mass think I'm kidding when I tell them I moved here partly because of the milder weather, but I am being totally serious.

 

[Ashful]

I think what I'm experiencing is a mix of learning curve, realizing reasonable expectations from the product and combatting a drafty old farmhouse in the midst of a bitterly cold week.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/the-philosophy-of-heating-large-or-drafty-homes.138930/

 

[ADK_XJ]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/the-philosophy-of-heating-large-or-drafty-homes.138930/

Thanks, had actually read this the other night but I see you've come to conclusions of your own on heating philosophy. I am less than 1/3 the sq ft of your home and I'm holding out that, down the line and with significant insulation, I might actually heat close to 80-90% with wood.

My wife and I do plan a renovation in 3-5 years to bring the house to close to 2000-2200 sq ft, at which point I would certainly consider another heating unit to balance out the load.

 

[ADK_XJ]

Pardon me for jumping in at the end, but I think you summed it up well here, and overall you are doing really well. I lived in the Western Adirondacks for three years and I can't imagine trying to heat a house there with one insert. It's just too damn cold. People in Mass think I'm kidding when I tell them I moved here partly because of the milder weather, but I am being totally serious.

Yeah, we have temp swings around here that would curl the toes of anyone East of the Rockies but Canadians or Mainers. My wife and I are fresh off 3 years in NC so our blood has thinned a bit!

 

[ADK_XJ]

Sounds like you are learning well. FWIW I rarely crib stack. That burns up too quickly.

I agree but I've also found it puts out a lot of heat quickly and that's actually the exact reason I've used it. I'm still experimenting so maybe I'll come around to a different approach but the house is usually about 55F when I get home at 4 and I aim to get up to 70 in the living room at least by the time my wife gets home 5-5:30.

I do one crib on the nice coal bed I always have and then add 2-4 sticks to get me to...well, just about now! Decent heat, controlled coal build-up. But, again, I'm still experimenting.

 

[eclecticcottage]

Home energy audit program, huh? I am going to google that now.

(broken link removed)

 

[OhioBurner©]

I wish I had gone bigger... WAY bigger. But not wanting to spend money on modifying a hearth, I got the biggest insert that would fit in the space. Then there was the giant old smoke dragon in the next room over. I figured with the nice new insert we could go smaller on the free standing stove and got a great deal on the Shelburn. And afterward I realized why they had such the huge behemoth... I don't think the place was insulated. Even with both cranking, on the 0ºF or lower cold snaps, no way I can keep the house comfy with 2 stoves going! Swapped it out for pellet stove this year, but not much better. Again money talked and I got a cheap one, though since I can leave it on high all the time versus the cycling of wood it would help, but the lack of insulation cannot be outrun by the stove if its cold and windy. Within 10' of the stove I can go from near 80 degrees to like low 60's or 50's during the cold snaps.

Still debating redoing the heating situation again with something bigger and longer burning, but also debating just dealing with it as is until I can sell this place!

As an aside, my current avatar is from the ADKs Grew up in northern NY.

 

[eclecticcottage]

I don't think there are any free or low cost energy audits in the area for residential customers. I believe there is one for commercial customers though.



I'm going to go against the general feel of the board and say the Englander 30 isn't all that. It is a box that contains a fire. It does that well. I like the design of the little Century much better.

Psst.... (broken link removed)

We just did this a couple months ago. The contractor we picked sucked and never gave us the audit though. Helped us find a lot of leaks anyway though.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I'm all ears, care to elaborate? If nothing else, I like to remind myself part of what I bought at twice the price of a NC-30 is a better design...

I probably have to be careful not to make the 30 sound like a bad stove. It's not. At its price point, under $600 for some, it's a deal that can't be beat. It heats my house cheaply and I want to be fair to it.

That said, I'm not thrilled with mine. 2 complaints are specific to the stove itself, and the other is to the style of baffle that is really quite common.

I'm not happy with the air wash system. I always have ash all over my glass. It's not a big deal with my application in the basement, but if it was in my living room I might feel differently. Some have blamed this on the doghouse air hitting the splits and sending debris back against the glass. They removed the doghouse and plugged the air holes that feed it.

The next one is also not a huge issue. I don't like the ash drawer. It's too small to be of any use. I've removed 6 gallons of ash at one time. The drawer might hold a gallon. I made a new plug out of a spare firebrick. It just a drawer that you can't store anything in now.

The last one is the ceramic baffle on the top. They aren't very durable and are pricey to replace. They do work though and that is why they are so popular. As it comes from the factory the baffle does not stop all of the smoke from exiting up and around it. Some have placed rods beside it. I shoved kaowool along the edges to help the stove. I just don't think the system is durable. Other stoves have steel or even firebrick baffles. Both are more durable. As you read the forum, you will see a good number of threads about broken baffles.

Just my opinion though. The stove does it's job.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Psst.... (broken link removed)

We just did this a couple months ago. The contractor we picked sucked and never gave us the audit though. Helped us find a lot of leaks anyway though.

Thankya! I'll check that out! I think I have. The low hanging fruit, easy stuff done so it's time to bring in the pros.

 

[BradleyW]

As an aside, my current avatar is from the ADKs Grew up in northern NY.

Out of curiosity, where in northern NY? Special place in my heart for the ADK's.

 

[ADK_XJ]

Psst.... (broken link removed)

We just did this a couple months ago. The contractor we picked sucked and never gave us the audit though. Helped us find a lot of leaks anyway though.

Just submitted my application! Leaks I can fix but can't always find, so that has some legs.

 

[begreen]

Any tightening up of the house is money well invested. Now, time to show the wife a video.

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