Couple Questions for the seasoned vets

[usefulidi0t]

Owner of the install company came in and assessed my house. Said the Outfitter 1 would be more appropriate for me. Especially A) since I am just using it to supplement my central air and 2) bedroom doors are closed, and combined square footage between hallway/living area/kitchen-dining area is around 650-700 sq foot. 700 is at the minimum range this pellet stove says it will cover and he says should have plenty of *umph* to break through chillier days if needed. Would you argue this? He also says, going bigger, will cause more on/off cycles.

 

[johneh]

It is up to you but I have always said
It is easier to turn a big BTU stove down
Then get more heat out of a small BTU stove
When I bought my stove the dealer told me
to buy the 32 -thousand BTU stove because he
said it would do the job. I bought the 45-thousand
BTU stove and on more than 1 occasion have been
close to maxed out. I am more than happy with the
bigger stove.

 

[bogieb]

So first of all congratulations on finding a company that didn't automatically try to sell you the more expensive stove.

If you are truly going to close doors and not try to heat the whole house, then I'm inclined to agree with the installer about going with the smaller stove. Although I gotta say that more on/off cycles doesn't mean anything. What does mean something is the room will warm up pretty fast in that small of an area so a larger stove shuts down soon after starting. The exhaust pipe will not get warm enough for long enough to keep the it clean.

I absolutely cannot run good pellets thru my basement stove for that very reason - and that is 650 sq/ft with some heat coming up the stairs. Okay, it's cool I can get by with cheap pellets, but what a mess my stove was from burning some softies. If I had a P43 down there instead of a P61a, then I wouldn't have that issue (I didn't have that issue when the P61 was trying to heat both the basement and the main floor).

Yes, I know the argument that it's easier to burn lower on a bigger stove than to get more than max heat out of a smaller stove. BUT, having lived in KS for 25 years (a long time ago), it doesn't get nearly as cold there as it does further north. And, it doesn't stay cold as long. And, you get stronger winter sun to keep the place more naturally heated.

(note that my previous reply on the 1st page was on the assumption you would try to heat your whole house, not close off rooms).

 

[usefulidi0t]

So first of all congratulations on finding a company that didn't automatically try to sell you the more expensive stove.

If you are truly going to close doors and not try to heat the whole house, then I'm inclined to agree with the installer about going with the smaller stove. Although I gotta say that more on/off cycles doesn't mean anything. What does mean something is the room will warm up pretty fast in that small of an area so a larger stove shuts down soon after starting. The exhaust pipe will not get warm enough for long enough to keep the it clean.

I absolutely cannot run good pellets thru my basement stove for that very reason - and that is 650 sq/ft with some heat coming up the stairs. Okay, it's cool I can get by with cheap pellets, but what a mess my stove was from burning some softies. If I had a P43 down there instead of a P61a, then I wouldn't have that issue (I didn't have that issue when the P61 was trying to heat both the basement and the main floor).

Yes, I know the argument that it's easier to burn lower on a bigger stove than to get more than max heat out of a smaller stove. BUT, having lived in KS for 25 years (a long time ago), it doesn't get nearly as cold there as it does further north. And, it doesn't stay cold as long. And, you get stronger winter sun to keep the place more naturally heated.

(note that my previous reply on the 1st page was on the assumption you would try to heat your whole house, not close off rooms).

@bogieb where abouts in kansas were ya? and yes, we can have rather mild winters here. im sure you can attest to the 50-60 degree days we have. mostly between 20-40.

 

[bogieb]

@bogieb where abouts in kansas were ya? and yes, we can have rather mild winters here. im sure you can attest to the 50-60 degree days we have. mostly between 20-40.

Wichita area - although most of it was in the small town (back then) of Derby, which is just south of Wichita. I just looked and Derby is now the 16th largest city in KS. When I was growing up it was 6k-8k people. It got it's first stop light in the mid 70's IIRC.

 

[usefulidi0t]

Yep, just about an hour and 15 north of where you were.

 

[bogieb]

Yep, just about an hour and 15 north of where you were.

My ex grew up in Woodbine. Most of his family is still in that area, Woodbine/Hope/Herington/Nevarre. Some are near Salina.

 

[usefulidi0t]

Yep, Abilene here.

 

[QuadUser]

House is 1344 sq foot. The kitchen/dining and living room are pretty much next to each other with 2 doorways in the living room leading out to the kitchen/dining area. Total square footage between the 2 there is about 600. Basically just one big area separated by a wall with a door on either side to get to the living room. Then there is a hall way which leads to the bedrooms and a bathroom. I do not plan on putting up any fans to move the heat around.

The Outfitter I is good for 700-1400 sq ft
The Outfitter II is good for 1300-2300 sq ft

Which would should I go with?

Now with the 30% tax credit, how exactly does that work? Say I paid 4,000 in taxes and got a tax credit worth 1,200 would that be reflected as an overpayment of 1,200 bucks therefore getting a 1,200 refund? Example B) I paid 1,000 in taxes, I would only get a 1,000 refund of that 1,200. Is that how this works?

Thank you,
Mark

I got the tax credit on my quad trekker. Even if you owe no tax, you get the money back. It's not the kind of tax credit that just lowers your amount due, it's a real refund.

 

[danrclem]

I got the tax credit on my quad trekker. Even if you owe no tax, you get the money back. It's not the kind of tax credit that just lowers your amount due, it's a real refund.

Are you 100% positive about that? I was always under the impression that a tax credit only lessened what you actually owe.

Edit; I did some searching and found that there are refundable tax credits that allow a person to get money back even if they didn't pay in. I haven't found where the tax credit for the 30% is a refundable credit or not. Do you know where that information can be found?

 

[usefulidi0t]

Are you 100% positive about that? I was always under the impression that a tax credit only lessened what you actually owe.

Edit; I did some searching and found that there are refundable tax credits that allow a person to get money back even if they didn't pay in. I haven't found where the tax credit for the 30% is a refundable credit or not. Do you know where that information can be found?

the 30% is nonrefundable.

 

[QuadUser]

Are you 100% positive about that? I was always under the impression that a tax credit only lessened what you actually owe.

Edit; I did some searching and found that there are refundable tax credits that allow a person to get money back even if they didn't pay in. I haven't found where the tax credit for the 30% is a refundable credit or not. Do you know where that information can be found?

I did my taxes and put in the correct info for biomass. It gave me a refund/money back. It didn't just lessen what I owed. I also bought a mini split this last year and got a smaller amount for that. My electric company gave me a 1000-dollar rebate on my mini split. I'm pretty good about finding those discounts. When I bought my Quad Santa Fe years ago the taxes did the same thing. So check with your tax professionals for sure. But this is the way it worked for me. My trekker qualified for sure, and I had spent with installation and parts close to 7K.

 

[usefulidi0t]

I know a little about this - nonrefundable does not mean you won't get any money back. What it means is say for instance:

You owe 5000
You pay 5000
You get a NONREFUNDABLE TAX credit of 1000
This will lower what you owed to 4000 therefore making it as if you pay 1,000 too much. Boom, there's your refund.
1,000 bucks in your hand.


Now if you owe 750
You pay 750
You get a NONREFUNDABLE TAX credit of 1000
You will only get 750 back.

The 250 is NONREFUNDABLE.

Clear as mud?

 

[QuadUser]

I know a little about this - nonrefundable does not mean you won't get any money back. What it means is say for instance:

You owe 5000
You pay 5000
You get a NONREFUNDABLE TAX credit of 1000
This will lower what you owed to 4000 therefore making it as if you pay 1,000 too much. Boom, there's your refund.
1,000 bucks in your hand.


Now if you owe 750
You pay 750
You get a NONREFUNDABLE TAX credit of 1000
You will only get 750 back.

The 250 is NONREFUNDABLE.

Clear as mud?

Not sure, all I know is I got a real refund on my taxes for my biomass pellet stove. It didn't just reduce what I owed.

 

[usefulidi0t]

Yes that's all it did. Which in turn made them say "Hey, you paid us too much, take this back" That's why you got a refund. Look at my example.

 

[QuadUser]

Yes that's all it did. Which in turn made them say "Hey, you paid us too much, take this back" That's why you got a refund. Look at my example.

I already didn't owe anything. So when I did the biomass, I got it all in a refund. Thats all I'm saying...

 

[usefulidi0t]

I don't mean owing them money when you file taxes April 15th. I am talking what you would owe throughout the year that you pay with your pay checks. Basically, it reduces your tax liability by whatever the tax credit is, prompting them to say you overpaid. Tax liability isn't necessarily the same as saying "You owe us this much you underpaid"... tax liability is the amount they forecast you need to pay each pay check.

 

[QuadUser]

I don't mean owing them money when you file taxes April 15th. I am talking what you would owe throughout the year that you pay with your pay checks. Basically, it reduces your tax liability by whatever the tax credit is, prompting them to say you overpaid. Tax liability isn't necessarily the same as saying "You owe us this much you underpaid"... tax liability is the amount they forecast you need to pay each pay check.

I don't know, I just know my tax refund this year was great... have a good one..

 

[bogieb]

I already didn't owe anything. So when I did the biomass, I got it all in a refund. Thats all I'm saying...

I think it is terminology causing the confusion (and the tax code too). If you paid payroll (or gains) taxes you can claim the credit and get your taxes back. You cannot get back more than you paid + owe (if you owe). @usefulidi0t 's example is correct

If you were say, a retiree who didn't pay any taxes thru the year (let's pretend they could live on SS and didn't have to withdraw from a 401k where taxes would be take out), then it would not do anything for you at all.

And to further muddy the water. If you were a retiree, took withdrawals from your 401k and paid taxes on that withdrawal. If at the end of the year you didn't "make" enough (I think it is $25,000), you will already qualify to get all your taxes back even without the credit. So, the credit for the stove will still do nothing for you.

 

[QuadUser]

I think it is terminology causing the confusion (and the tax code too). If you paid payroll (or gains) taxes you can claim the credit and get your taxes back. You cannot get back more than you paid + owe (if you owe). @usefulidi0t 's example is correct

If you were say, a retiree who didn't pay any taxes thru the year (let's pretend they could live on SS and didn't have to withdraw from a 401k where taxes would be take out), then it would not do anything for you at all.

And to further muddy the water. If you were a retiree, took withdrawals from your 401k and paid taxes on that withdrawal. If at the end of the year you didn't "make" enough (I think it is $25,000), you will already qualify to get all your taxes back even without the credit. So, the credit for the stove will still do nothing for you.

Like I said, I got a big refund for it on my taxes when I filed this year....have a good one..

 

[usefulidi0t]

Like I said, I got a big refund for it on my taxes when I filed this year....have a good one..

Just spelling it out for ya bud, glad it all worked out!

 

[QuadUser]

Just spelling it out for ya bud, glad it all worked out!

It did, paid me back good...

 

[usefulidi0t]

I get it

 

[QuadUser]

ty