BrowningBAR said:
Must be true. It is 40 outside and 70 inside. The walls must be keeping us warm. :lol:
BB - Who is starting to wonder if there is a smoldering fire in the walls of his house.
Couldn't wait for elec. bill. . .Till I Got It.
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Must be true. It is 40 outside and 70 inside. The walls must be keeping us warm. :lol:
BB - Who is starting to wonder if there is a smoldering fire in the walls of his house.
natural gas bill (actual) was $87 december and I just got my january bill (34 days) $197 ouch! I also remember blowing through a 250 gallon oil tank last january @ $2.50 a gallon = $625. So the insert is doing it's job of supplementing our heating needs and paying for itself.
My electric bill shows how many kwh I used this month and what I used one yr. before plus how much I paid per kwh.. Our rates are rediculous here but they do present a nice electric bill lol.. For us the killer is the electric dryer being in the cellar it is cold especially with the stove running so it must heat up that colder air... A drawback to wood heat I guess.. There are still 5 people living in my house so that's alot of laundry! Winter clothing is much heavier than summer clothing so it takes more to dry it too... Hanging it by the woodstove as some do would save a bundle but my wife would hang me with the laundry if I even suggested this lmao...
Ray
Ray
I got one of those "holy sh*t" bills a couple of years ago. After looking at the bill, they had concluded that the meter for my interruptable DHW was bad, for the last year. They estimated usage and sent me one huge bill. I said "WTF, I put in a gas water heater 18 months ago. You better fix it."
They did, but told me I should have notified them of the change. I wish I could tell them to piss off, but my only other choice is to go off grid.....
They did, but told me I should have notified them of the change. I wish I could tell them to piss off, but my only other choice is to go off grid.....
...I didn't read all the responses here, ...so apologies if already covered/resolved.
...My first thought, ...was the electric bill reflective of an ACTUAL read, ...or ESTIMATE?
Here in NY (NYSEG in my case) the do not always to actual meter reads, ...they bill based on what your estimated use will be. I think it's every other month, ...or so that they do an actual. It may be that the billing was based on prior use, etc.
...My first thought, ...was the electric bill reflective of an ACTUAL read, ...or ESTIMATE?
Here in NY (NYSEG in my case) the do not always to actual meter reads, ...they bill based on what your estimated use will be. I think it's every other month, ...or so that they do an actual. It may be that the billing was based on prior use, etc.
Took me 6 weeks, 7 various methods of communication to get it through to the power company's billing department that if the gas is shut off it is not being consumed. During that that time I received 4 letters. first that there was a problem with the meter and they wanted to replace it, funny that just a month before I had complained about the meter and was told that it had been replace a year ago, (never was replaced, paint on the pipe threads was never disturbed) then started getting letters about court action. My bills were all paid never in arrears. Utility cost here has increased 41% in the last 5 years. ( from there own records) Due to replacing various appliances, other saving measures and wood heat, my out of pocket increase has been less than 10% for the same time period.
I did some research and here's what I found:
I actually used 500 fewer kilowatt hours this billing period compared to last year's billing period.
The average temp. this billing period was 27 deg. compared to 34 deg. last year.
Billing period covered a full 31 days.
On the down side, I still paid more than ever because they raised rates.
On the plus side, I would have paid $50 more because they raised rates.
And the heat we're feeling now is good, warm heat. Not that heat pump/ aux./ cold heat that we couldn't get over 70 deg. with.
Plus we love the stove.
Plus I love working in the woodpile. Beats jogging.
As an aside, I used my bestest, driest cherry (been dessicating in basement) last night and the downdraft worked flawlessly. House 71 deg. this A.M., while 28 and windy outside. Enough coals for start-up. Had on two med. splits at bedtime last night.
I actually used 500 fewer kilowatt hours this billing period compared to last year's billing period.
The average temp. this billing period was 27 deg. compared to 34 deg. last year.
Billing period covered a full 31 days.
On the down side, I still paid more than ever because they raised rates.
On the plus side, I would have paid $50 more because they raised rates.
And the heat we're feeling now is good, warm heat. Not that heat pump/ aux./ cold heat that we couldn't get over 70 deg. with.
Plus we love the stove.
Plus I love working in the woodpile. Beats jogging.
As an aside, I used my bestest, driest cherry (been dessicating in basement) last night and the downdraft worked flawlessly. House 71 deg. this A.M., while 28 and windy outside. Enough coals for start-up. Had on two med. splits at bedtime last night.
Now that is some good information to have.
That 500 Kwh is about 1.7 Mbtu if you want to think if it that way - plus if you are running things warmer than before you saved that as well. Sounds like a win-win no matter how you look at it.
$50 more for 500 Kwh? So you paying $.10/Kwh there? I'm paying closer to $.16-.18 here (perhaps more depending usage) - you can see why oil is more popular than electric here for heat. Of course the stove beats both oil and electric in my opinion for many of the same reasons you just cited.
Have to love that cherry - I've yet to hear anything bad about it (or experience it myself...). I do have a pile of apple that I picked up last summer off CL and plan to burn next winter, I hope it turns out to be somewhere near as good.
That 500 Kwh is about 1.7 Mbtu if you want to think if it that way - plus if you are running things warmer than before you saved that as well. Sounds like a win-win no matter how you look at it.
$50 more for 500 Kwh? So you paying $.10/Kwh there? I'm paying closer to $.16-.18 here (perhaps more depending usage) - you can see why oil is more popular than electric here for heat. Of course the stove beats both oil and electric in my opinion for many of the same reasons you just cited.
Have to love that cherry - I've yet to hear anything bad about it (or experience it myself...). I do have a pile of apple that I picked up last summer off CL and plan to burn next winter, I hope it turns out to be somewhere near as good.
Lots of good thoughts here. Have you considered doing your own readings?
We have a co-op utility co. and do our own. I get the bill a few days prior to the date I do the reading (10th of every month). Takes all of 5 minutes, and most of that is trudging through the snow at the back of the house.
I sometimes do readings every 10 days to see how usage may be changing. Bill also shows prior years usage but not cost.
I can however, go online to pay, post readings, and also see all cost since we got the house (almost 3.5 yrs. ago).
If you really want to know, do it yourself.
Someone mentioned those "phantom loads" like TV in standby. Yeah, big energy waster. Put ours on a strip, and turn off when not using, and our bill went down quite a bit.
We have a co-op utility co. and do our own. I get the bill a few days prior to the date I do the reading (10th of every month). Takes all of 5 minutes, and most of that is trudging through the snow at the back of the house.
I sometimes do readings every 10 days to see how usage may be changing. Bill also shows prior years usage but not cost.
I can however, go online to pay, post readings, and also see all cost since we got the house (almost 3.5 yrs. ago).
If you really want to know, do it yourself.
Someone mentioned those "phantom loads" like TV in standby. Yeah, big energy waster. Put ours on a strip, and turn off when not using, and our bill went down quite a bit.
My January 2010 bill was for $121.41 with a total of 1426 kilowatt hours used. During that cold snap, it would have probably been twice that without the stove. I wish the stove would meet ALL our heating needs, but with our current layout/insulation/windows it's just not possible.
Our cooperative uses the new meters that transmit usage data directly back to the office, so I'm sure it's an accurate reading. During really cold months, using the electric heat pumps only, I've seen our bill just shy of $300.00 Not sure how these rates compare to the rest of the world, but thought I'd share for comparison sake.
Our cooperative uses the new meters that transmit usage data directly back to the office, so I'm sure it's an accurate reading. During really cold months, using the electric heat pumps only, I've seen our bill just shy of $300.00 Not sure how these rates compare to the rest of the world, but thought I'd share for comparison sake.
My dad's on propane and they got a $600 bill for a month. He ripped out his great Fisher which really kept the whole house warm when they added on a family room. He put in a zero clearance and was talking about how great it heated. Now after that bill he regrets giving the stove away. He says they're gonna turn down the thermostat and just stay in the family room now where the fireplace is... lol... I really hated to say it... (not really) but a big I told you so was all I could say. I kept telling my mom while I was helping them remove the grampa bear, was how much they are going to miss this stove. We got our natural gas bill for that period and it was $100 and half of that was taxes and fees and pilot lights.
Pagey said:
$121.41? I'll never see that unless I shut the entire house down. Oil and wood stove heat, no central air and out bill average is $210 a month throughout the year.
I think my paternal grandmother averages about $70 a month. But the Liberty does a great job of heating her tighter/better laid out home than our Endeavor does in a semi-drafty two story with smaller, chopped up rooms. I honestly can't complain about the cost of living in this area. However, you have to take the salary hit with it. I'm 33 with a Bachelor's in Business Administration and work in network administration/information security, and I've never made more than $29,000 in a year.
You know, comparing bills is only part of the equation - if you can share your rate it tells more of a story. Pagey is paying about $.085 which is about 1/2 what we pay per KwHr. I don't know what rate you are paying there in PA BrowningBAR but I've heard that MA is near the top of the rates (I think AK is the highest though).
The other side is the total consumption - other than heating/cooling the next big thing is likely DHW if you are doing that with electric, then look at refrigerators and freezers and lighting. You would be amazed at how much you can actually reduce your electric usage through a few changes. We cut ours by more than half (took DHW off electric cut 1/3 of the usage) and are still finding ways to reduce. We used to burn over 1100Kwhr/mo as our norm, now we've had several months in the 400's. Didn't do too well last month though as I put an electric heater in the basement to keep it up a bit and that sucked power like it was going out of style...
Well, guess this is going way off topic eh?
The other side is the total consumption - other than heating/cooling the next big thing is likely DHW if you are doing that with electric, then look at refrigerators and freezers and lighting. You would be amazed at how much you can actually reduce your electric usage through a few changes. We cut ours by more than half (took DHW off electric cut 1/3 of the usage) and are still finding ways to reduce. We used to burn over 1100Kwhr/mo as our norm, now we've had several months in the 400's. Didn't do too well last month though as I put an electric heater in the basement to keep it up a bit and that sucked power like it was going out of style...
Well, guess this is going way off topic eh?
raybonz said:
Dryer: We don't have an in-home washer and dryer and I still use a laundromat. However, to save the many quarters it requires to dry my laundry, I run the stuff thru the dryer only one quarter's worth, about 8 minutes. Then I take the clothes home, still damp, and hang them on one of the six clothes lines I have coiled up in the living room and attached greenhouse. I do this to save money. However, I do run the clothes once thru the dryer because we live with six large dogs and once thru tends to remove most of the... dog hair. This mean more labor [put the clothes into the dryer, remove, bring home, hang up]. But that is minor and it saves me quite a bit of money.
My wife, the once or twice a year she does the laundry [she still has a job], will jam the quarters in and get them all dry at the laundromat. However, she doesn't mind the way I do it. I added it up last year--estimating how much money I saved--don't recall what the number was but it was, to me, significant.
You could do the same.....
BrowningBAR said:
Sounds like we're in about the same boat then. I'm at 16 if under 600kwh but goes up another cent or two above that due to a higher "distribution charge" they stick in there. I don't know if there is another hike at another level of consumption... I hope not to find out.
I'm glad my stove doesn't require a fan or I'd be trying to figure out how to get the most efficient fan possible on it which somehow I doubt there is much room for improvements there. We did notice that running the stove reduced our electric bill as well as oil though - I think that the forced hot air fans must use a significant amount of power.
Our local cooperative maintains their own infrastructure, but at the end of the day they actually purchase their "juice" from the TVA. So, they are at the mercy of what the TVA does with their rates. I have to say, they've actually cut a couple of their prior increases recently, so they're not entirely evil. Now, that's not to say they declined all the way to the previous rates, but they have a record of passing on savings to their customer base, not just cost increases.
Soadrocks said:
Does anyone know if you can dispute estimated charges? Sorry if it was covered already, I didnt see it.
BrowningBAR said:
Wow guess im lucky here. January electric bill for me was $75.89 (527 kwh), $10 less than last January (I guess the new led christmas lights helped). My highest months is August peaking at around $105 (around 630ish kwh), January is always my 2nd highest month. Its just my wife and I here though. I have Oil and wood heat and no central air either, we have three A/C's in the house but one is only used when we have a guest. The other two run most of the time.
We're all electric: dryer, DHW, 2 heat pumps, etc. In milder weather, the Endeavor will keep the heat pumps off until about 1 or 2am until about 6am. That's a huge difference, plus the wood heat just "feels" better. Heat pumps definitely have their place, but they're not going to truly keep you warm, IMO.
Pagey, it looks like we're paying about the same rate/kwhour. You're all electric, right? How are you keeping your usage so low?
I have been running the ceiling fans full time with the stove. Plus I run a fan in the back bedroom to move some heat. And, well, the stove has a little blower.
I always thought the a/c was sucking the juice in July, but our winter bills are 1/3 higher at least.
I have been running the ceiling fans full time with the stove. Plus I run a fan in the back bedroom to move some heat. And, well, the stove has a little blower.
I always thought the a/c was sucking the juice in July, but our winter bills are 1/3 higher at least.
Troutchaser said:
Well, in the winter the stove has cut the heat pumps use by up to 75% (depending on just how cold it gets). I swapped out the standard bulbs with CFLs for lights that we leave on the longest (lamp by the computer, stove/range hood light, lamps in the living room). I religiously turn off lights that are not in use. In the summer we run ceiling fans so that we can keep the air on 76, but it feels much cooler due to the motion of the air.
I can't say that I'm doing any one thing that keeps it low. We're a family of 4 (33, 32, 13, and 8), and we use the dryer pretty much all year, so I know we're not saving there or gaining any size/statistical advantage.
I've also found that modern CPUs and modern operating systems with good power management schemes draw a helluva lot less juice than the older CPU (AMD Athlon/Pentium 4) architectures.
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