Corona Virus

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Anyone see this study? Looks like the Netherlands and US opted out of using the BCG vaccine, while most of Europe did use it.

 
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This is why our current quarantine procedures need adjustment. We need healthy people to gain an immunity to this to protect the at risk from that second deadly wave.

There is no guarantee or evidence that people who have recovered or been exposed will gain immunity.
 
There is no guarantee or evidence that people who have recovered or been exposed will gain immunity.
There is definitely research ongoing/more needed. But, with previous Coronaviruses, SARS and MERS, there is proof that there is immunity after infection for a period. There really is no reason to believe this one would be different from current research. There have been few enough “reinfections” to believe they were probably relapses or not fully recovered.

I do believe we will have a vaccine by end of summer. There are multiple companies that are building off of SARS vaccine that became irrelevant before mass production. Keep your fingers crossed that they will be approved and distributed in a timely manner. That is the true “fix”.
 
This isn't even a human virus, so if we all just stay isolated long enough we should be able to "starve" the virus.
 
1918-1919
You are correct. I had associated the massive breakout and attempted quarantine at Fort Bayard, which happened just as our first large class of troops there were preparing to ship off to WW2, with the beginning of the war in 1914. Sometimes I forget how late we got into that war. There was also a typhus resurgence outbreak in 1914, so I may have been combining those deep nuggets in my memory.

There is no guarantee or evidence that people who have recovered or been exposed will gain immunity.
They’ve been requesting those with confirmed cases and recovery donate plasma, and there is a belief that these people do indeed have some immunity to the strain of Corona virus from which they have just recovered. I think what’s being debated is how robust and enduring that immunity may be, as well as how many strains there may be in the general population across the world today.
 
There is definitely research ongoing/more needed. But, with previous Coronaviruses, SARS and MERS, there is proof that there is immunity after infection for a period. There really is no reason to believe this one would be different from current research. There have been few enough “reinfections” to believe they were probably relapses or not fully recovered.

I do believe we will have a vaccine by end of summer. There are multiple companies that are building off of SARS vaccine that became irrelevant before mass production. Keep your fingers crossed that they will be approved and distributed in a timely manner. That is the true “fix”.

I hope you are right, I was referencing these articles when replying.


I would be very cautious about getting a vaccine rushed to market for this reason, a condition referred to in the article as "disease enhancement" where the vaccinated person gets an even worse form of the disease, in this case SARS due to the vaccine.

 
In spite of the news from Capitol Hill, testing is still not great in most areas including Seattle, and we have the UW Labs cranking out a lot of tests. Testing is critical to the tracking and containment of the virus, but we were caught with our pants down and supplies just aren't there. Add to this the fact that our testing methods are slow. This ends up with sparse coverage compared to what is necessary to get ahead of this beast, Testing must dramatically improve.
 
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This is worth a watch. Covid19 deaths per country per week compared with other diseases and events.
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Wow, sobering video. I'm going to share that on a forum that doesn't believe it's a big deal.
 
If that does not put the fear of God into you nothing will
 
This made me laugh, tomorrow being Easter. I was on the Worldometers web site and saw …

April 10 (GMT)
33752 new cases and 2035 new deaths in the United States

NOTE: Puerto Rico retracted 1 death previously reported on April 9 [source]



:)
 
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This made me laugh, tomorrow being Easter. I was on the Worldometers web site and saw …

April 10 (GMT)
33752 new cases and 2035 new deaths in the United States

NOTE: Puerto Rico retracted 1 death previously reported on April 9 [source]



:)

Good one. Can picture someone not quite dead, bolts upright in the morgue when they try to do an autopsy saying oh no you don’t.
 
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Huang is a very common Chinese name. Most Chinese students chose an English first name while in school to make interacting with Occidentals easier.
 
Don't think he can, that cave has been closed for a long time.
Ahh, so he's one of the stinkin' bats that's responsible for this mess?!! :mad: ;)
 
This is a long read from a local genetic epidemiologist, Dr. Chris Carlson. The bottom line is they are working on many trials right now and maybe by August we will have some solutions for corraling this bug.

Dear friends,
Today is April 12.
The reaction from my local test audience to yesterday’s post suggests that I’m just not very good at communicating a hopeful message. My intent was to start from minimal assumptions of any new treatments and try to forecast the best path back to normal life. The suppression approach that I outlined assumed the use of existing testing technology (at a larger scale), the application of old school epidemiology (with some technological updates), and the success of existing approaches to developing a vaccine (which I think should be feasible for COVID).
Today, I’m going to add one new thing to this model: I’m going to assume that one of the ongoing clinical trials testing existing drugs for antiviral activity is partially successful. That is, let’s assume that a drug is identified that modestly slows the ability of the virus to replicate in an infected person’s lung tissue, halving the rate at which the virus can make more virus.
At this point pretty much everyone on the planet has been reminded of how exponential growth is a terrifying thing. But the spread of the disease from patient to patient is only one aspect of the disease that is exponential. Within an infected patient, the number of infected cells also grows exponentially, as each infected cell releases numerous new virions capable of infecting another cell. I’m not going to put a number on how many new virions are produced by each infected cell, because I have no idea what this number is. I’m also going to assume that it takes some time for the virus to take over the cellular machinery and start churning out copies of itself, but I’m not going to take a guess at this either, because I just don’t know. The important point is that when a person is first infected, only a handful of virions are present, and until the immune system catches onto the infection, the number of virions begins to grow exponentially into a viral army.
As an infected cell churns out virions, these can either go on to infect additional cells in the same host or be expelled from the infected host in snot, in order to go on and infect additional hosts. Eventually, when the immune system realizes that the body is under attack, the host can develop symptoms (fever, shortness of breath), but it is pretty darn likely that before symptoms, enough virions are already being shed into the host’s snot that they can infect additional people.
Now, the fact that a significant fraction of infections appears to be asymptomatic suggests that it is entirely possible for a fully functional immune system to fight off the infection. So what differentiates those who are asymptomatic from those with severe disease? Well, the first symptom (fever) generally indicates that your immune system has sensed an infection. Another common early symptom (loss of the sense of smell) might indicate that viral replication in the nasal passages has directly damaged the normal function of your olfactory system. Later symptoms (shortness of breath, the “broken glass” images in the lungs) indicate lung damage. The lung damage is probably a combination of two factors: (1) direct damage from viral replication and (2) collateral damage caused by your immune response to the virus. That is, during a major infection, your immune system will generally shoot first and ask questions later.
My apologies for going to such an over-used metaphor, but during a SARS-CoV-2 infection, your lungs are a battlefield where two armies are at war: an army of viral particles, and an army of white blood cells from your immune system. While the viral army is initially growing exponentially, your immune system has to bring in reinforcements. Because the viral army is growing by taking over your own cells, one of the functions of the immune system is to find the hijacked cells and kill them, so that the virus can’t make more virus. In order to achieve this, the immune response can be rather non-specific, wiping out uninfected bystanders on the battlefield. The combination of direct viral damage and collateral damage caused by your immune response to the virus causes tissue damage in a patient’s lungs. The more severe this damage, the worse the pneumonia, and the harder it is to breathe.
Now, why do some infected people have no symptoms at all, while others die of the disease? The age distribution of severe cases gives us a big clue here: the human immune system naturally senesces as we age. That is, as we get older, it gets harder to fight off infections, and latent infections that our immune system has controlled for decades can reactivate (like shingles). So it is reasonable to assume that the reason symptoms are generally so much milder in 20 year old patients than 80 year old patients is that the younger immune systems were generally able to stop viral replication earlier in the battle, thereby causing less damage to the battlefield (the lungs). That is, turning the tide of the battle earlier is likely to be key in reducing the severity of symptoms.
Let’s return to the rich variety of drug trials currently underway for the treatment of COVID-19. Many of these trials are obviously targeted at patients with the most severe symptoms because these are the patients who are dying. However, by the time that a patient is on a ventilator, the battle is mostly over, and the patient is dying of the lung damage that they already sustained.
So, what if a drug was identified with the ability to reduce the rate of viral replication by half? That is, what if we can find a drug that halves the rate at which the viral army grows? Such a drug would have fairly minimal value in late-stage patients, where the damage has already been (mostly) done, but could be hugely valuable if we could administer it to early-stage patients. The earlier, the better. That is, let’s assume that the viral army really is growing exponentially between infection and the day that symptoms develop, five days later.
If we could give the drug on the fourth day after infection, the viral army would be half as big when the immune response started.
If we could give the drug on the third day after infection, the viral army would be one quarter as big on day 5.
If we could give the drug on the second day after infection, the viral army would be one eighth as big.
If we could start the drug on the day after a patient is infected, the viral army would be one-sixteenth as big.
Hopefully, reducing the size of the viral army would allow the immune response to control the infection with less damage to the lungs.
Not only should early application of such an anti-viral help the patient, it should also reduce the amount of virus being shed into their snot while they are asymptomatic. That is, administering an anti-viral during early infection could actually make infected patients less infectious to others. This would be HUGE, because it would let us reduce the R for the virus pharmacologically, no social distancing required.
Let me say that again: early administration of a partially effective antiviral drug to infected people during their asymptomatic phase could not only help them avoid serious symptoms but might also reduce the possibility that they transmit the disease.
Now, the obvious extrapolation from this would be that if we find such an anti-viral, we should just give it to EVERYONE for two weeks. Unfortunately, there’s a dangerous assumption in this extrapolation: is the antiviral drug safe if given to uninfected people? Nearly all drugs have some side effects, and some of these can be severe. Not just in people who are medically at risk of severe side effects due to an underlying condition (known as “contraindications”), but also because drugs can interact with other drugs to cause serious adverse reactions, or even with foods. Read the warning labels on your medications, and you’ll find that some (including very common drugs like statins) should not be taken with grapefruit juice. So simply applying an anti-viral for COVID-19 to the entire population could be unacceptably risky, if it was known to have frequent contraindications or interacted with a commonly prescribed drug.
However, if we were able to combine the modestly effective antiviral I’ve hypothesized with a suppression strategy (test, trace, isolate, and then test some more), then we could give the anti-viral to the isolated contacts of a diagnosed case as early in the disease course as possible. That is, when an exposed contact went in for their test, they would receive a two week prescription for the antiviral med which would hopefully reduce the severity of disease in the infected contacts.
Another bonus is that medical staff working in a high-exposure environment might be able to take an effective antiviral prophylactically (as long as they had no known contraindications and are not taking any interacting drugs), giving them the very best possible chances of fighting off a SAR-CoV-2 infection in the early stages.
How likely is it that we will find a modestly effective anti-viral? There’s no way to truly forecast this, but a lot of trials for a number of different drugs are underway. Existing antivirals in (or beginning) trials include Favipiravir (4 studies, ref 1), lopinavir (23 trials, ref 4), remdesivir (10 trials, ref 5), tenofovir (1 study, ref 6) and Oseltamivir (Tamiflu, 7 studies, ref 7). All the drugs ending in “vir” are existing antivirals. I didn’t even try to summarize the dozens of other existing drugs that are in trials where they _could_ have an antiviral effect, like Hydroxychloroquine (68 trials, ref 2).
Early administration of hyperimmune plasma (ref 3) or convalescent plasma (15 trials, ref 8) might even serve the same purpose as modestly effective antiviral treatments.
Anyway, out of all the therapeutic interventions being tested, a modestly effective antiviral intervention, administered as early as possible, is my favorite scenario that might let us accelerate how quickly a suppression model could get us back to something that approximates “normal”. Possibly even before a vaccine is developed.
Please note that the most effective deployment of an antiviral drug REQUIRES rapid contact tracing of diagnosed cases. It’s not an either/or choice: without knowing who has been exposed, and rapidly getting them onto the antiviral medication, there won’t be nearly as much benefit in terms of reduced disease severity.
In terms of timing, the clinical trials for these potential antivirals need to run their course, so even if one of the trials pans out, I doubt that an antiviral drug could be broadly deployed against SARS-CoV-2 much before August.
Dr. Christopher Carlson
 
Keep in mind that during the gulf war the government deployed some specialized shots and medicines to deal with diseases local to the area. Some of them had significant side effects and claimed long term health impacts. Speeding up the process increases the risk.
 
Keep in mind that during the gulf war the government deployed some specialized shots and medicines to deal with diseases local to the area. Some of them had significant side effects and claimed long term health impacts. Speeding up the process increases the risk.
Yes, Dr. Carlson warns about this:
Now, the obvious extrapolation from this would be that if we find such an anti-viral, we should just give it to EVERYONE for two weeks. Unfortunately, there’s a dangerous assumption in this extrapolation: is the antiviral drug safe if given to uninfected people? Nearly all drugs have some side effects, and some of these can be severe. Not just in people who are medically at risk of severe side effects due to an underlying condition (known as “contraindications”), but also because drugs can interact with other drugs to cause serious adverse reactions, or even with foods. Read the warning labels on your medications, and you’ll find that some (including very common drugs like statins) should not be taken with grapefruit juice. So simply applying an anti-viral for COVID-19 to the entire population could be unacceptably risky, if it was known to have frequent contraindications or interacted with a commonly prescribed drug.
 
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