Confession time: Old vs. New

[firefighterjake]

How old was this guy? Not trying to attack anyone personally, but I generally find that old people and new technology just aren't a good match.

Case in point - I spent a good 5-7 minutes on the phone last night trying to get my 66 year old mother to actually find the address bar in her web browser and type in a URL. One of her favorite bookmarks got deleted and all she knows is click on the big blue "e" to "get to the internet" then click on "favorites" to see the complete list of all web pages that are on the internet. After 10 years, I've given up trying to explain in any more detail. It took her a few days to get used to the fact that when the mouse ran to the edge of the mouse pad, it was perfectly OK to pick the mouse up, move it to the center of the pad, drop it, then continue to push it in the direction she wanted to move the cursor.

Then there are the monthly calls from my co worker, "Now how do I attach a file to an email again?" (try Insert > File) "OK...where is my file?" (well, it's your computer...where did you put it? Is it under "C: where you store every file you've ever had for the past 5 years?" Or from my boss..."They told me my laptop needs a new hard drive...what does the "hard drive" actually do?"

I must even admit myself, I don't know -or care- about 1/2 the stuff my cell phone does. I can call out, receive calls and send/receive a text message now and then. But most anything else is a long list of clicks and menu selections that I don't care to go through!

Anyway, I digress.....

True sometimes . . . but not always.

My mother-in-law purchased a computer a number of years ago after deciding she needed it to do some genealogical work. Long story, short . . . that night we get a phone call from her wondering how to turn off the computer. I thought for sure we would be in for several months of daily phone calls. . . .

However, she ended up learning more about the computer and now knows more about them than I do . . .

 

[firefighterjake]

Cozy- One needs the patience of a saint to deal with that stuff. My aunt believes everything that she gets in an unsolicited email short of Nigerian scams, and forwards it all. Half the times I point her to a Snopes.com page, otherwise I just don't have the energy.

On stoves- there have been a few folks that provide direct evidence for your point here.

Don't we all know someone like this . . . there's at least one or two people that I know that are always sending out e-mail "alerts" and "warnings" about the latest and greatest computer virus (i.e. the Amish computer virus . . . where since the Amish don't use computers you are required to manually go in and wipe out your computer's memory), creepy crawlys found in the local McDonald's playground ball pit or how ________ (fill in politician's name here) is really the love child of Obama bin Laden and Cher.

We even have one person who works for the City who decides to send everyone the same e-mail warning every time she reads about one of these deals . . . although she's been pretty quiet since folks starting sending out mass e-mails alerting her and others to the fact that they were urban legends (usually with a link to urbanlegends.com or snopes.com.)

 

[Joey Jones]

I was just lamenting my loss of my Jotul Combie#1 , which I sold for $150 back in 1997, as I had moved to a new heat included apartment. It was like some of you said...so easy to operate it became second nature. Also had a hugh firebox and was airtight. This monster would burn hot for 12 hours with enough coals to turn over a new fire in short time. Well I did feel newer is better and did buy an Englander13Nc. My reasoning was that stove technology must have advanced greatly since the 25 past years when my combie was built. I was real dissappointed at first with this new E.P.A. stove, but I was stuck with it. I did try this experiment and that experiment to try to get the stove to be consistant. It wasn't until I bought a Ryobi splitter that my problems were solved. My fire wood, although sold as seasoned and paid for as seasoned wasn't. Once I started to break these delivered spilts apart, I was amazed that they were damp, most of the pieces were damp, but to look at them ...they had end splits galore and the color was a weathered gray...and these splits heafted light, but the wood is unseasoned. Thats the problem. These new E.P.A stoves require what they say...moisture content in the 20% moisture range. If your wood is damp or over this moistute range you will probably experience a problem...Old wood burners are used to the older stoves that were very forgiving of M.C. but the new stoves need dry wood.

 

[InTheRockies]

I think discomfort with the unfamiliar, especially related to new technology, is common among a great percentage of all ages. There are 20 somethings and 30 somethings I've run in to that are just as hesitant to adopt new technology because it means learning the unfamiliar. (Heck, I'll admit to being geeky, even though I'm not an IT professional by training. I bought one of the first PCs available in the early 80's--can you imagine, state of the art then was dual floppy drives, no hard drives. I also chaired my company's technology committee for a decade. I beta test hardware and software. I just enjoy challenges.)

I'm pretty happy with my new stove--it puts out a lot of heat much more quickly than my old stove. It hasn't been too hard to learn better positions for the damper. If I really feel the need for a larger firebox, I may end up buying a larger stove next year and moving this one to my shop. (There's an existing masonry chimney in the shop; there's just never been a stove in it since I bought the property.)

There are some disadvantages with the new stoves. They can be more expensive to own over time since they have more parts that need to be replaced periodically. However, these disadvantages don't outweigh the benefit of the cleaner, more efficient burns on the new stoves. Down the road, I expect the EPA to demand the replacement of all non-certified stoves; I wouldn't be surprised to see such language being inserted in to amendments to the Clean Air Act. Like it or not, I suspect that by the 2020's no one will be allowed to legally burn in an old stove.

 

[snydley]

We'd never go back to a non EPA stove ...the new one gets hotter and uses less wood, what more can you ask for. If anything it'll be a coal stove.

That'll be my next stove too, or maybe a coal furnace in my basement. When I get so old that I no longer can/want to scrounge/buy wood anymore and do all the cuttin, splitting stacking etc.
I'll go with coal and have it delivered. I hope to NEVER go back to oil again!
Snyde

 

[firefighterjake]

Granted my last experience with old tech was back in the early 1990s with a Shenandoah woodstove . . . and granted so far my only experience this year is with some small fires in the evening/early morning, but so far I have made a few notes to myself about the different experiences.

One of the first things I noticed is that the Jotul Oslo's firebox is much, much smaller . . . which means my firewood needs to be split smaller, odd ball pieces may not easily fit with other wood and well, I just can't cram as much wood into the firebox like I did with the Shenandoah.

In some ways this has been a bit inconvenient as I know now that I will need to resplit some of my wood, some wood will have to go into the box by itself and I will have to be a little more careful about which wood I choose when I load up the firebox vs. just tossing in a bunch of wood willy nilly due to the ample size.

That said . . . after just a few fires I have to tell you that I sit there in my easy chair with this stupid looking grin on my face (I know this because my wife wants to know how long I will be sitting there with that "stupid look on your face") because a) I have already realized that I am getting some long burn times without even loading up the firebox or using good hardwood (right now I'm using chunks, trash wood and softwood), the heat is so much better as it is much more "even" (although this could be due to the stove's material) as I am seeing less temperature fluctuations as I did with the Shenandoah (maybe also due to my burning technique) and while I am not a let's-save-the-planet-hold-hands-and-sing-kumbayah-while-driving-to-a-1960s-tribute-band-concert-in-a-hybrid kind of guy I also really like how clean this stove burns (smoke at start up). And if I must confess . . . I also like the glass window . . . burning wood for me was originally an economic choice . . . but now I'm seeing it also for a life-style choice and being able to watch the wood burn is a visual treat in itself.

So . . . if I had the choice would I do anything differently . . . so far . . . with just a week into burning . . . a whole-hearted "nope" would be my answer. I love my Jotul.

 

[jwscarab]

A fella was just here buying some straw and we got talkin' woodstoves. To keep it simple, he took the new one out and put the old one back in. He said it wouldn't burn as long or put out as much heat.
Anybody else care to confess?

His new one musta been an everburn.....omg - sorry.....lol. Couldnt help myself.

 

[Bill]

The new stoves are a lot different than the old stoves. There is a real learning curve, you start fires different in them, they seem to like smaller diameter drier splits. In some of my older stoves with 8" chimneys I could burn anything up hot and fast. The newer technology may be a little bit more finicky, but there are many pluses also.

 

[pelletizer]

Had a Jotul F3 it was cool when you could tweak the air flow and have a nice slow rolling flame and see the air coming out of the jets in the top.

I have heard of people burning drif wood does it burn different?

Brooktrout why replace your stove if your happy with it and it cranks out the heat?

 

[RedRanger]

Had a Jotul F3 it was cool when you could tweak the air flow and have a nice slow rolling flame and see the air coming out of the jets in the top.

I have heard of people burning drif wood does it burn different?

Brooktrout why replace your stove if your happy with it and it cranks out the heat?

Secondary burn is something to behold!!

Don`t burn driftwood from the salt water unless you have let it get rained on for at least a year. Salt is evil!

And before I became convinced to buy a newer and more effecient epa-certified insert. Well, brother bart used to tell me not to buy one-said they are evil and will burn your house down :lol: but now that I have my new "bear",, got to say I would never go back, never!!

Oh, and brother bart was as usual, only poking fun at my reluctance to take the leap of faith. Really miss his one-liners on this forum :down:

 

[brooktrout]

Had a Jotul F3 it was cool when you could tweak the air flow and have a nice slow rolling flame and see the air coming out of the jets in the top.

I have heard of people burning drif wood does it burn different?

Brooktrout why replace your stove if your happy with it and it cranks out the heat?

Well, by nature I am more than willing to change with the times. I see new technology at work everyday (autobody) and have learned if you don't roll with it, you'll get rolled over. I must add that last winter was my first at burning wood. I guess I have the urge to swap out this stove that I've only had for 10 months for the same reason I have the urge to replace my 6 month old stihl ms270 with a ms280 8-/ But at three large, a new Jotul insert is a distant blip on the horizon.........

 

[myzamboni]

Had a Jotul F3 it was cool when you could tweak the air flow and have a nice slow rolling flame and see the air coming out of the jets in the top.

I have heard of people burning drif wood does it burn different?

Brooktrout why replace your stove if your happy with it and it cranks out the heat?

Well, by nature I am more than willing to change with the times. I see new technology at work everyday (autobody) and have learned if you don't roll with it, you'll get rolled over. I must add that last winter was my first at burning wood. I guess I have the urge to swap out this stove that I've only had for 10 months for the same reason I have the urge to replace my 6 month old stihl ms270 with a ms280 8-/ But at three large, a new Jotul insert is a distant blip on the horizon.........

Your biggest plus would be the amount of time saved collecting/cutting/stacking wood. That time could be used for other things (yes, there other things beside firewood collection).

 

[Joey Jones]

I am still missing my Jotul #1 Combie, but am adjusting to life with this new Englander 13NC... If I could have my Jotul back and installed...I'd do it in a second.

But then I have to move pipes as it is not heat shielded, Aw, maybe I'll keep what i got and perhaps be surprised

 

[myzamboni]

I am still missing my Jotul #1 Combie, but am adjusting to life with this new Englander 13NC... If I could have my Jotul back and installed...I'd do it in a second.

But then I have to move pipes as it is not heat shielded, Aw, maybe I'll keep what i got and perhaps be surprised

JoeyJ, from what I have read from other 13NC owners you are going to be happy. Wait for it to get cold enough for a good fire, assuming you have dry wood, and you will be loving life.

 

[begreen]

Amen to dry wood. The majority of "stove" problems are actually wood problems.

 

[Joey Jones]

Amen to dry wood. The majority of "stove" problems are actually wood problems.

Actually, wet or damp wood problems .... You said it a thousand times before.... Be Green

 

[EddyKilowatt]

We moved this year and left behind an Avalon Pendleton (EPA) that I'd gotten to know pretty well. I was shopping for an EPA stove for the new place, but the wife fell in love with the Jotul 8 (pre-cat, pre-EPA, no airwash, no secondary) that was already there, so I decided to give it a try.

I've only run a few short test fires in the Jotul, but I already miss the secondary burn, clean glass (usually), and smoke-free chimney of the Avalon. On the other hand, I think the Jotul Box will give quicker heat for our evening fires, and run on the meager draft from the ten-foot chimney at our new place, which would certainly be a challenge for an EPA stove.

I don't think I'd *choose* to buy a non-EPA stove, but they (at least the good ones) are not that huge of a step down from the latest and greatest. Compared to, say, a pre-EPA car engine, with carbs and choke and points-type ignition and a stinky cloud trailing behind it, that really is a pretty big step down (in everything but style perhaps) from a modern EFI engine.

Eddy

 

[Joey Jones]

We moved this year and left behind an Avalon Pendleton (EPA) that I'd gotten to know pretty well. I was shopping for an EPA stove for the new place, but the wife fell in love with the Jotul 8 (pre-cat, pre-EPA, no airwash, no secondary) that was already there, so I decided to give it a try.

I've only run a few short test fires in the Jotul, but I already miss the secondary burn, clean glass (usually), and smoke-free chimney of the Avalon. On the other hand, I think the Jotul Box will give quicker heat for our evening fires, and run on the meager draft from the ten-foot chimney at our new place, which would certainly be a challenge for an EPA stove.

I don't think I'd *choose* to buy a non-EPA stove, but they (at least the good ones) are not that huge of a step down from the latest and greatest. Compared to, say, a pre-EPA car engine, with carbs and choke and points-type ignition and a stinky cloud trailing behind it, that really is a pretty big step down (in everything but style perhaps) from a modern EFI engine.

Eddy

Look Eddy, you made your wife happy....at least thats one ....and we know about wives .....