Compressed logs.

[bcrtops]

These compressed wood products, when manufactured, are incredibly dry at 6-9% moisture. They easily pick up moisture. A little moisture in the product & they burn with this expanding characteristic. It is best to buy them when the supplier has gotten a new shipment from the manufacturer as they are often stored in less than ideal conditions -- often under cover but otherwise open to the elements, fog, etc. Even double plastic wrapped they can pick up a good deal of moisture in our West OR climate.

I have less than ideal storage conditions here, having to store them in a shed, on a dirt/gravel floor. Even on a pallet, plastic on bottom, placed in used plastic feed sacks, then double covered with a tarp -- a few on the outside or top can pick up a little moisture. They do not burn the same at all. By reading the comments section of a local farm supply, one can get some useful information. People burning "Bear Bricks" (a low compressed product compared to NIELS or HomeFires) have found one year they have great success, the next year not so much, due to time of year purchased & how long they have been in storage at the farm supply.

I have found this to be true -- these products suck up moisture like a sponge. Last winter I experimented with a pallet of Bear Bricks & this winter with a pallet of NIEL's. They both have their place & will give you the btu's if you learn to burn & store them appropriately. As we are getting older, we will probably buy a pallet of each to supplement our wood supply -- cutting, splitting, stacking is getting to be more of a chore every year. They are not that much more expensive than purchasing firewood, which you still have to stack & dry. Compressed wood products are much cleaner to deal with & take up less space, as well.

 

[begreen]

The other advantage of a good compressed wood product is that they burn cleaner. That's an important plus in an urban environment.

 

[Sprinter]

bcrtops: excellent comments. Very helpful. Oh, BTW, handsome looking dog... guessing a Border Collie?

begreen: Thanks for your work in evaluating the various available products. I'm starting to think that they can be a real alternative to cord wood in many situations. Like bcrtops, my days of c/s/s cords of wood every year are getting fewer. Not quite there yet, but it would be nice to have a backup plan. I'll have to pencil out the cost factors, but I'm guessing someone else here already has.

 

[weatherguy]

I have a couple of pallets of Niels, my best results are a mix with wood 50-50 or so. I got a 14 hour burn overnight last night, not that cold upper 20s but when it' frigid, below 0, the burn stays hotter longer, I think I'll burn 50-50 from now on that's how much I like the results.

 

[sutphenj]

I have a couple of pallets of Niels, my best results are a mix with wood 50-50 or so. I got a 14 hour burn overnight last night, not that cold upper 20s but when it' frigid, below 0, the burn stays hotter longer, I think I'll burn 50-50 from now on that's how much I like the results.

What do you think the stove top temps were at say hours 10, 12 and 14? Thanks

 

[BKVP]

The other advantage of a good compressed wood product is that they burn cleaner. That's an important plus in an urban environment.

BeGreen,

The state of Alaska paid to have a study done on manufactured fuels. First, cordwood, then compressed logs and finally cordwood and compressed logs together. The cleanest burn was the last. The manufactured fuels are 7% or less in m.c. Stoves are tuned to burn 18-23%, based on Method 28, so they are just too dry and off gas too quickly.

As to Post about the snake effect, we too saw that in logs from an Alaska state manufacturer. So visiting various production facilities wwe learned some are compressed, others are extruded. The compressed logs are sensitive to raw stock m.c., compression rate and feed rate. Extruded logs, such as NEILS, do not have the snake effect as they are extruded.

 

[begreen]

The state of Alaska paid to have a study done on manufactured fuels. First, cordwood, then compressed logs and finally cordwood and compressed logs together. The cleanest burn was the last. The manufactured fuels are 7% or less in m.c. Stoves are tuned to burn 18-23%, based on Method 28, so they are just too dry and off gas too quickly.

Very interesting. Did they publish the results?

 

[begreen]

I did find this Fairbanks article. In the article it says that a 40% emissions reduction is achieved when mixing compressed logs with dry wood fuel. When mixed with damp wood the emissions reduction was a whopping 70%.. Unfortunately, the article seems more like a one company product promotion toward the end, but maybe that is the only source in the region.
http://www.newsminer.com/news/local...cle_207910fa-6fc9-11e4-8fcb-43d3d413450d.html

 

[bcrtops]

bcrtops: excellent comments. Very helpful. Oh, BTW, handsome looking dog... guessing a Border Collie?
begreen: Thanks for your work in evaluating the various available products. I'm starting to think that they can be a real alternative to cord wood in many situations. Like bcrtops, my days of c/s/s cords of wood every year are getting fewer. Not quite there yet, but it would be nice to have a backup plan. I'll have to pencil out the cost factors, but I'm guessing someone else here already has.

He is a small Australian Shepherd -- our previous girl was a Border Collie, once in a lifetime dog, looked the same w/ no brown, however.

Approximate costs for us:
"Bear Bricks" ~$200/ton & have to haul them ~30 miles.
"NIEL's" ~$245/ton & have to haul them ~30 miles.
"HomeFire's" ~$325/ton & have to haul them ~30 miles.

Firewood across the road from a clear cut & thinning -- landowner charges me $30/cord stumpage (used to be free)
Firewood delivered in log form -- ~$60/cord green
Firewood by the "cord" from a local logger (usually measures less than full cord) ~$175/cord delivered green
Firewood from the OR State Forestry Dept. Permit is cheap ~$15 -- long haul of at least 60 miles round trip -- wood not always easily accessible

Our plan for next winter is to buy a pallet of "Bear Bricks" & one of the "NIEL's", supplementing the daytime fires with the "Bear Bricks" & the overnight fires with the "NIEL's". That gets our cord wood usage down to about 3 cords/year. Now that we are retired & usually burning 24/7, we go through about 5 cords of wood/year otherwise. In days gone by, & before replacing the old wood sash windows w/dbl. pane, we'd go through 8 cords/year in the old Fisher, even using supplemental oil.

That is our rather approximate cost analysis. Compressed wood products have become more attractive the older we get, as long as I can haul them -- delivery would cost considerable.

 

[BKVP]

Very interesting. Did they publish the results?

Yes. Look for them under the ADEC website. Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation. If you don't find it let me know. I have contacts at ADEC.

 

[RobbieB]

I discovered that the sawdust logs at the local Ace hardware are not NIELs, they are (broken link removed to http://lignetics.com/firelogs/). They are 5 lbs each, split in half easy by tapping with hammer and burn very well. I use half a log at a time. They buy a skid and sell them for a dollar each.

 

[begreen]

Yes. Look for them under the ADEC website. Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation. If you don't find it let me know. I have contacts at ADEC.

Thanks. i found a brief Dec. 2014 report on the preliminary testing results by Dirigo Labs. The results had similar data but only with birch and no details on the testing.

 

[bcrtops]

I discovered that the sawdust logs at the local Ace hardware are not NIELs, they are (broken link removed to http://lignetics.com/firelogs/). They are 5 lbs each, split in half easy by tapping with hammer and burn very well. I use half a log at a time. They buy a skid and sell them for a dollar each.

I've seen these locally in grocery / dept. type stores & in hardware stores, but only by the pkg. & never have I seen them available by the pallet/ton. I tried a pkg. a couple of years ago -- thinking they burn about the same as the HomeFire's.

Edit: Lowe's & Home Depot both have these, but only by the pkg. of 6 / $5.98 -- they only bring in a pallet at a time to sell by the pkg. (That is like $400/ton!)

 

[BKVP]

Thanks. i found a brief Dec. 2014 report on the preliminary testing results by Dirigo Labs. The results had similar data but only with birch and no details on the testing.

Yes Dirigo was the lab that won the bid. I'll check with my contacts to see if a more detailed summary is available.

 

[begreen]

Yes Dirigo was the lab that won the bid. I'll check with my contacts to see if a more detailed summary is available.

Thanks, it's a fascinating study.

 

[bcrtops]

Thanks. i found a brief Dec. 2014 report on the preliminary testing results by Dirigo Labs. The results had similar data but only with birch and no details on the testing.

Yes Dirigo was the lab that won the bid. I'll check with my contacts to see if a more detailed summary is available.

I believe that what you are looking for is found here: (broken link removed to http://dec.alaska.gov/air/anpms/comm/docs/fbxsippm2-5/iii.d.5.10-contingency_measures.pdf)

Pages 5 & 6, quoting part of it:
"
 reductions in PM emissions for both the manufactured logs and the 50/50 mix relative to dry cordwood, ranged from 18% - 54%, and
 reductions in PM emissions for the 50/50 mix were roughly twice those found when using manufactured logs alone, ranging from 40% - 54%."

 

[BKVP]

I believe that what you are looking for is found here: (broken link removed to http://dec.alaska.gov/air/anpms/comm/docs/fbxsippm2-5/iii.d.5.10-contingency_measures.pdf)

Pages 5 & 6, quoting part of it:
"
 reductions in PM emissions for both the manufactured logs and the 50/50 mix relative to dry cordwood, ranged from 18% - 54%, and
 reductions in PM emissions for the 50/50 mix were roughly twice those found when using manufactured logs alone, ranging from 40% - 54%."

Well done.

 

[begreen]

I believe that what you are looking for is found here: (broken link removed to http://dec.alaska.gov/air/anpms/comm/docs/fbxsippm2-5/iii.d.5.10-contingency_measures.pdf)

Pages 5 & 6, quoting part of it:
"
 reductions in PM emissions for both the manufactured logs and the 50/50 mix relative to dry cordwood, ranged from 18% - 54%, and
 reductions in PM emissions for the 50/50 mix were roughly twice those found when using manufactured logs alone, ranging from 40% - 54%."

That's from the preliminary results of the 2014 report. I read that. Looking for more updated testing where they appear to have added spruce to the mix and for more details on the stoves they tested with, testing methods, etc.. In other words, the actual testing reports from Dirigo Labs.

 

[weatherguy]

What do you think the stove top temps were at say hours 10, 12 and 14? Thanks

I didn't keep track but next frigid night I'll try and make notes. I usually just open the air when I sit down in front of the stove in the morning and have my coffee and don't look at the temp other than to note if the cats in the active zone.

 

[sutphenj]

I didn't keep track but next frigid night I'll try and make notes. I usually just open the air when I sit down in front of the stove in the morning and have my coffee and don't look at the temp other than to note if the cats in the active zone.

Thanks. I'm just trying to get an idea on usable heat as it relates to burn time. I.e. is hour ten 200 degrees or say 400 degrees.

 

[Doc C]

Are you still recommending North Idaho Energy Logs? I remember you were pretty sold on them. Don't know if they are available in the OP's area though.

I can see the plant that they are made at from my house. Because of that they are sold everywhere around here.

I burn a couple every year and they are always very good quality and burn with a good mix of heat and time.

 

[bcrtops]

That's from the preliminary results of the 2014 report. I read that. Looking for more updated testing where they appear to have added spruce to the mix and for more details on the stoves they tested with, testing methods, etc.. In other words, the actual testing reports from Dirigo Labs.

I guess you will have to contact the "dec" in Alaska direct to see if they have or will release the full report. Good luck.

Note: there is, also, a page on their site that just has the summary, without all the other information.
"Preliminary Summary of Fairbanks Firewood & Pellet Log Emission Measurements"
(broken link removed to http://dec.alaska.gov/air/anpms/comm/docs/fbxsippm2-5/appendix_iii.d.5.10_adopted_12.24.14.pdf)

Note#2: When burning a small, low fire, without the secondaries lighting off, I have found (subjectively) the following to be true.
--wood only, always shows some smoke from chimney
--compressed wood products only, rarely any smoke visible
--combination of a compressed wood product with a small split, often has little or no smoke visible

 

[dloudon]

I prefer the Niels I used them exclusively all year last year 2 pallets worth except I also used a pallet of the home fire prest logs. The only advantage I give the prest logs is the flat bottom otherwise Niels were quite a bit better in my experience. Never had them fall apart into chunks unless I ran them on high or for a long period of time. Yeah when they got down to the last hour or so of usable heat they fall apart easily but I really enjoyed them. Also I only needed two per loading versus 4-5 of the home fires to get the same heat output so price wise it was cheaper for me to use the Niels but not by much.

@Tegbert Thanks for the feedback. The Neils I tried had been leftover from the previous homeowner and I am assuming they actually were Neils. I will get some some new Neils, and see how it goes. Yes, the last hour or so of a burn was when mine fell apart into chunks, giving more surface area to burn and therefore a faster burn. The Home Fire Prest held together as one piece through the entire burn into ashes and gave off plenty of heat. I used three per the mfg recommendation in my smaller, older Osburn 1050.

 

[RobbieB]

Here you see why I only use a half Presto Log at a time;



They expand!

So, I get the fire going with paper and kindling and then a couple of splits then when a nice coal bed happens I start with the Pres-To-logs a half log at a time.

 

[begreen]

Here you see why I only use a half Presto Log at a time;

View attachment 221730

They expand!

So, I get the fire going with paper and kindling and then a couple of splits then when a nice coal bed happens I start with the Pres-To-logs a half log at a time.

Yes, that is a symptom of a lower compression vs the very dense extruded logs. They also leave more ash.