Cold vs Warm Wood

[Jags]

it,same principle for wood.....

Really? Do you serve up baked firewood with a side of gravy? Turkey you cook, wood you burn until there's nothing left to burn.

just saying,wood burns better the closer it gets to its optimal burning temp,giving it a head start cant hurt,same as turkey.never had baked firewood,must be a regional thing

I respect the point, but the logic of not cooking a frozen turkey is for completely different reasons. The biggest reason is getting the inside cooked before turning the outside to dry charcoal. With a stick of burning wood, the outside is gonna get charred long before the inside starts to burn.

Most of this discussion can be pretty well debunked. First- you have a 400 pound stove sitting at 400F - now you chuck 40 pounds of wood into it. The difference in temp from pre-heated at 70f fuel and 20f fuel is 50 degrees.

So with a 400 pound stove and adding 40 pounds of fuel (1/10 of the mass) at a reload temp of 400F
A.) you are adding 1/10 of the mass at 330F temp differential
B.) you are adding 1/10 of the mass at 380F temp differential.

I DO realize that not all 400 pounds is gonna be sitting at 400F, but it is all relative. Heck if ya really wanted to get down to brass tacks, maybe we should be using internal stove temps of 1000F (just below secondary burn rate) The temp differential would be represented as an even smaller percentage of difference.

Unless you are a walking instrument - I doubt that the 50F differential is going to be noticeable. YES there IS a difference, but is it a real world difference. Dunno. Reload when your stove is 50F higher than you normally would - it becomes a moot point.

 

[roddy]

it,same principle for wood.....

Really? Do you serve up baked firewood with a side of gravy? Turkey you cook, wood you burn until there's nothing left to burn.

just saying,wood burns better the closer it gets to its optimal burning temp,giving it a head start cant hurt,same as turkey.never had baked firewood,must be a regional thing

I respect the point, but the logic of not cooking a frozen turkey is for completely different reasons. The biggest reason is getting the inside cooked before turning the outside to dry charcoal. With a stick of burning wood, the outside is gonna get charred long before the inside starts to burn.

Most of this discussion can be pretty well debunked. First- you have a 400 pound stove sitting at 400F - now you chuck 40 pounds of wood into it. The difference in temp from pre-heated at 70f fuel and 20f fuel is 50 degrees.

So with a 400 pound stove and adding 40 pounds of fuel (1/10 of the mass) at a reload temp of 400F
A.) you are adding 1/10 of the mass at 330F temp differential
B.) you are adding 1/10 of the mass at 380F temp differential.

I DO realize that not all 400 pounds is gonna be sitting at 400F, but it is all relative. Heck if ya really wanted to get down to brass tacks, maybe we should be using internal stove temps of 1000F (just below secondary burn rate) The temp differential would be represented as an even smaller percentage of difference.

Unless you are a walking instrument - I doubt that the 50F differential is going to be noticeable. YES there IS a difference, but is it a real world difference. Dunno. Reload when your stove is 50F higher than you normally would - it becomes a moot point.

 

[roddy]

oops forgot to reply,

 

[Battenkiller]

I would not discount the amount of moisture that condenses on frozen wood particularly when trying to start a fire with already marginal wood. As for those that are leaving their damp frozen wood outside until they’re ready to burn it, being penalizing twice for the same sin, it's like having fines doubled for speeding in a construction or school zone.

I'm not discounting it at all, I'm saying that if your wood is sitting out there at 20% MC and that 20% is in the form of ice, you will lose precious heat inside your firebox melting it into water, even if you're not at startup and already have a good fire going. You will rob your fire of the same amount of heat that burning wood at 25% MC will rob it of. If the fire is large and intense, you won't even notice it. I can also toss a split of green oak in the same fire and won't notice any appreciable difference in ignition time, but the heat loss will be there in both cases regardless.

The double penalty is a stupidity tax I have levied on myself in the distant past while figuring all this stuff out on my own. That was way back in the days before the Internet made us all experts.

 

[roddy]

sorry i,m at work,multitasking is not a strong point for me....pretty much computer dumb....not sure myself about cold vs warm burning....maybe i,m just trying to get my post count up....

 

[G-rott]

I'm a wood warmer...it makes my stove run back up to full temp(secondary burn) quicker. It's not a big deal with a good hot stove but my stove drops below 300 before reload and has a small(ish) fire box.

Starting up a cold stove is much quicker as the wood reaches ignition temp off the kindling quicker with less smoldering. Cold wood will burn, I just dont have to very often.

Yes the btu's will balance out but I get a better burn with warmed wood.

Garett

 

[fbelec]

i'd say everyone try loading 20 degree wood this load and room temp wood next load and come back with a answer. if i leave some maple in the house and load some of the same maple from the same tree from out side the house there is a difference. the wood from outside gets thrown in on a 2 inch bed of coals and starts sizzling and hissing for about 5 minutes. then it's fine. the wood that was room temp i can throw in on a 2 inch bed of coals and no hissing.
no argument here. it's just what's happens here.

 

[madrone]

The only advantage of pre-warmed wood is the distance you have to travel to load the stove. Temperature difference is negligible.

 

[glassmanjpf]

My wood likes to be warm and toasty before going to work. I think it matters!

 

[Slow1]

My wood likes to be warm and toasty before going to work. I think it matters!

Heh - and I like to be warm and toasty when I feed the stove so I bring in 3 days or more worth of wood in at a time and let it warm up. I think that matters too!

Only open the house for wood about 2 times a week is good in my opinion. In any case I've never actually fed a stove cold wood so I don't know how it would work for me.

 

[wood spliter]

Not to go to far off topic but where do you keep a few days worth of wood? I keep 2 stove loads.

 

[LLigetfa]

the wood from outside gets thrown in on a 2 inch bed of coals and starts sizzling and hissing for about 5 minutes..

Don't blame the temperature on that. You have wet wood! Bring it in so it gets a chance to dry next to the stove. That's not what this discussion is about.

 

[Slow1]

Not to go to far off topic but where do you keep a few days worth of wood? I keep 2 stove loads.

I have a set of shelves - actually 2'x3' "baker's rack" style metal shelves with wheels on the bottom. I'm sure you have seen them elsewhere - the type with the chrome looking wire shelves and poles for corner vertical supports. At any rate, I keep the shelves next to the hearth pad. Since my deck door is on the opposite side of the room/house I roll the shelf over to the door, fill it up, then roll it back next to the stove. Saves walking across the floor and then I just have to sweep up the mess at the door after loading - almost nothing falls as I roll across the room. Works for us here, everyone's situation is unique of course. Not the most romantic in appearance - somewhat industrial perhaps, but the wife puts up with it as it isn't too ugly for her and it was a lot less expensive than some options and sure beat the plastic tubs I had next to the stove at first.

 

[Battenkiller]

I can squeeze about 1 1/2 cord into my walk-in basement wood shop without it getting seriously in the way. I stack it up to the floor joists, held in place with adjustable steel columns at one end and a wall at the other end. I put a couple of 2x4s between the wood and the sheetrock wall to prevent mold from forming on the wall. How do I know mold will form there?..... :roll: The stacks are about 36" from the stove. I always wondered how warm I was getting my wood that way. This year I bought an IR and found that the wood at the top of the stack gets up to 130º on the stove side and about 85º on the far side. I assume there is a temperature gradient along the length, but I haven't cut a piece in half to measure the middle. At any rate, it's surely better than frozen outside at -20ºF.

I'm constantly fussing with the rotation of it because this is both my indoor kiln (always <20% RH) and my shop humidifier (it would get down to about 6% RH without the wood). It's no time waster as I only fuss with the stuff while the fire is getting going in the morning, and during re-loads. Putzing around with the wood slows me down a bit. I can be a bit impatient with regard to shutting the fire down too soon.

This system works so well for me that hickory I brought in last week is already deeply checked and significantly lighter than when I brought it in. It already has shrunken enough that I was able to fill the top with another row of splits. I have my 1100 CFM overhead air filtration unit on most of the day, moving dry air through the stack. Should be ready to burn in a few more weeks regardless of what the naysayers will insist.

Of course, I did freeze-dry it outside for a month first. ;-P

 

[logger]

wtf? Some of you guys are gonna hurt yourselves thinking so hard. Only difference that matters here is cold wood splits better.

 

[ChillyGator]

If the Wood has been good I let it come inside to warm up early....if its been bad then I make it stay outside :roll:

 

[fbelec]

the wood from outside gets thrown in on a 2 inch bed of coals and starts sizzling and hissing for about 5 minutes..

Don't blame the temperature on that. You have wet wood! Bring it in so it gets a chance to dry next to the stove. That's not what this discussion is about.

how do you explain the same wood not hissing and sizzling when it's warm? you can't tell me that 8 to 12 hours in the house is going to dry green wood.

 

[fbelec]

also with the inside wood the stove comes up to temp quicker

 

[LLigetfa]

how do you explain the same wood not hissing and sizzling when it's warm? you can't tell me that 8 to 12 hours in the house is going to dry green wood.

That's not enough time to dry green wood but it is enough time to shed some moisture near the surface. How much will depend how dry the air is in your house. My house is kept fairly humid so moisture will condense on frozen wood.

My wood is stored in a shed so it doesn't have surface moisture and normally doesn't hiss and sizzle when cold unless I'm burning wood before its time. In that case, warming it up a day or two indoors might make a little difference but not much.

Where I have noticed a big difference is trying to start a fire in a cold stove with frozen wood. I always try to bring in enough for a cold start the night before. As for tossing dry frozen wood onto an established fire, I can't say I ever noticed any difference.

 

[Valhalla]

Always have wood nearby in the 75+ degree stove room. It saves trips
to the 0 degree cold shed. Particulary at night in my PJs!

A 70 degrees F difference may not mean much, but I always like to do
a cold start with room temp splits. It seems to rise in temperture much
faster.

Prewarmed wood is closer to combustion temp. Besides, it is easy to
do it.

 

[fbelec]

how do you explain the same wood not hissing and sizzling when it's warm? you can't tell me that 8 to 12 hours in the house is going to dry green wood.

That's not enough time to dry green wood but it is enough time to shed some moisture near the surface. How much will depend how dry the air is in your house. My house is kept fairly humid so moisture will condense on frozen wood.

My wood is stored in a shed so it doesn't have surface moisture and normally doesn't hiss and sizzle when cold unless I'm burning wood before its time. In that case, warming it up a day or two indoors might make a little difference but not much.

Where I have noticed a big difference is trying to start a fire in a cold stove with frozen wood. I always try to bring in enough for a cold start the night before. As for tossing dry frozen wood onto an established fire, I can't say I ever noticed any difference.

agreed. i think that is what is happining here. i keep the wood in the garage which is very cold. cold wood does take a little longer to bring the stove up to temp. so i would say there is a difference but not much.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

If the Wood has been good I let it come inside to warm up early....if its been bad then I make it stay outside :roll:

Hay......Your wood is always warm.......your in Florida for cripes sakes ;-P