Circulator help please

[maple1]

I went back and did some re-reading to try to unconfuse myself. Didn't work. Got worse, even. We might need some points clarified.

 

[TCaldwell]

I’m confused also, shouldn’t there be a storage tank / or buffer involved, boiler - tv valve- storage , and then mix from storage to zones with a 3 way mix valve.

 

[maple1]

He did mention a radiant zone with mixing. I had been thinking he has a primary loop, fed by both/either wood or LP boiler. Loads feed off that. With radiant you could get long flows back to the boiler below 140, which is what I was thinking this ESBE was for.

And I was also reading that the problem is that the wood boiler wasn't sending enough heat to the primary loop. Which sounds like maybe a mixer and/or boiler circ issue.

We also have no temp info, anywhere.

 

[MikeT2]

He did mention a radiant zone with mixing. I had been thinking he has a primary loop, fed by both/either wood or LP boiler. Loads feed off that. With radiant you could get long flows back to the boiler below 140, which is what I was thinking this ESBE was for.

And I was also reading that the problem is that the wood boiler wasn't sending enough heat to the primary loop. Which sounds like maybe a mixer and/or boiler circ issue.

We also have no temp info, anywhere.

All of this is correct. With the original thermostat I had to basically adjust the throttling valve from the supply to the Esbe AND I had to almost close the balancing (ball) valve between the wood boiler output and input in the primary heating loop to get circulation in the loop.
Without closing the valve in the primary loop there was no circulation in the loop no matter where the throttleing valve was set in by the Esbe. Closing the primary loop meant that some zones got heat.

Now I changed the tstat to a 140 degree one. There is plenty of flow in the primary and all zones get heat. Another observation is that the throttling valve by the esbe doesn't appear to do much at all unless its at one end or the other. The only negative is that the boiler has a hard time getting to temp and wont with the biggest zone (radiant floor) engaged.

 

[MikeT2]

No the tv version the op says he has is thermostatic bypass valve intended for boiler protection, this is not designed for 3 way mixing to control temp to the zones.

This is also correct. It must be an old version- I installed the boiler in 2007. Just lived with the problems and used wood stoves to assist.

It only says Thermostatic bypass valve Esbe made in Sweden.. 140 F 80 c.. No other markings I can see for model.

Also I have attached a pic of the throttling valve- Its 1.5 inch copper pipe.

 

[MikeT2]

BTW- Thanks for all the help you guys!

 

[maple1]

The only negative is that the boiler has a hard time getting to temp and wont with the biggest zone (radiant floor) engaged.

Maybe you also have a boiler issue?

Dirty and needs thorough cleaning?

Or damp wood?

So it's just not generating enough heat to start with?

A 40kw boiler should be able to pump out way more heat than your house would use, when it is burning.

 

[Fred61]

Or damp wood?

I was about to ask if that had been asked amid all the chatter. "Boiler won't come up to temperature"

 

[MikeT2]

Woods fine. Dry for over a year.

With the big radiant zone off if it's coming up to temp fine. Even when if wasn't getting up to temp at the boiler the zones that have a thermometer at the loop were running up wheat hey need to be. Matter of fact they were running hotter than with the 160 degree tstat installed.

 

[maple1]

A boiler that size should be able to come up to temp with all its loads open. That is also sort of the purpose of the ESBE. It maintains a minimum return temp therefore the boiler should always be at temp. (Might also depend on ones definition of 'up to temp')

 

[MikeT2]

180 degrees so boiler shuts off is what I consider up to temp.

 

[maple1]

If closing off a lot of your load is making it do that, I would keep all my loads open. Making it get hot enough to go in to shut down shouldnt really be a goal. Is all your house warm with that zone closed off?

 

[MikeT2]

Update- everything is now working fine.
Here is the main issue- The Esbe mixing valve control is counterintuitive. You would think, and as others have posted, for circulation to occur in the heating loop the ball valve from the hot supply tee to the Esbe must be closed off quite a bit.
Not so- I found online (thanks Ahona) a description of how this Esbe operates, and they state to leave the ball valve all the way open to start and then adjust slightly if theres any need for any additional needed circulation....and this works. Use a 140 degrees tstat in the Esbe for return, and the 168 tstat if its in the feed to the loop.
Not as my plumber set it up, nor as you would think. Changed the Tstat, set up the ball valve as directed and let it go.
All zones get heat, and the pressure is enough to get it to the furthest zone.
Thanks for all the help and advice guys!