Chimney Liner needed with new BK Sirocco?

[chichas]

I’m no expert, but sometimes the pipe is just slid into the clay thimble, and packed around with rope gasket.

A round insulated liner in an oval or rectangular clay liner is a non-issue, and in fact standard.

Beautiful house! What’s with the shielding behind the stove, are you not meeting prescribed clearances?

Thanks ashful! We love this place. We moved in 6 months ago. The old stove was a a home made stove designed by the previous owner. It would burn hot really well but not economical in terms of wood consumption and not efficient at all. Hence the large slate 'heat shields' Not needed anymore but we like like the artistic/rustic quality they add.

I'm thinking of a 5.5" liner kit with insulation on top of that. Does that sound correct? I was thinking if I do 6" liner, it will be right up against the clay liner and probably damage or make it impossible to drop the liner in. I'm looking at this setup from Rockford: https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/round-flexible-custom-kits.php

 

[bholler]

We're going round and round here. The takeoff is what a professional calls it. You're calling it a snout. It isn't really rocket science. The T comes down from the top of the flue with the liner attached. The "snout" goes in through the thimble, you line them up and tighten it together.

Once again I'll say that you don't need to disassemble the thimble in the living space unless you're going to replace it with a bigger model. In that case it's way more complicated. The "snout" you're considering is NOT to be used as a thimble replacement. It is strictly for relining an existing flue. Like I said last time, your description does not appear to be a properly installed (built to code) masonry chimney. You need a reputable professional who can come out and inspect the flue and find the problem and then provide you with a solution to bring it into code and in doing so, stop the leaking issues.

We call them tee snouts to. As do most manufacturers.

 

[bholler]

Thanks ashful! We love this place. We moved in 6 months ago. The old stove was a a home made stove designed by the previous owner. It would burn hot really well but not economical in terms of wood consumption and not efficient at all. Hence the large slate 'heat shields' Not needed anymore but we like like the artistic/rustic quality they add.

I'm thinking of a 5.5" liner kit with insulation on top of that. Does that sound correct? I was thinking if I do 6" liner, it will be right up against the clay liner and probably damage or make it impossible to drop the liner in. I'm looking at this setup from Rockford: https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/round-flexible-custom-kits.php

That would be fine once you check with bk to see if you can run a 5.5. But honestly you need to get the creosote out. And when you have creosote seeping out like that you will need to remove the clay liners to have any chance of getting it clean. Then you can just run a 6"

 

[moresnow]

2 BK's. Sweet!

Only time I've had drippy creo like that was due to burning darn wet wood. Something to rule out. Just sayin. Same stove here.

 

[chichas]

That would be fine once you check with bk to see if you can run a 5.5. But honestly you need to get the creosote out. And when you have creosote seeping out like that you will need to remove the clay liners to have any chance of getting it clean. Then you can just run a 6"

I'm planning on removing the creosote, but I don't plan on removing the liner. just don't have the funds for that and I'm going to try cre-away and elbow grease first depending on what the guy coming out Monday has to say. It's also not leaking anymore now that I'm not turning down the thermostat as low as I was.
I can switch to and oval flex liner possibly to meet the BK 6" requirement if they nix the 5.5". I'll call BK on Monday.

 

[HomeinPA]

That would be fine once you check with bk to see if you can run a 5.5. But honestly you need to get the creosote out. And when you have creosote seeping out like that you will need to remove the clay liners to have any chance of getting it clean. Then you can just run a 6"

I think I can say with a fair amount of confidence, I'd go as high as 98.63%, that a 6" snout...takeoff....whatever anybody want to call it, is not going to fit inside a piece of 6" class-a chimney pipe though. A 5.5" liner has a 6" t/o also. Therefore, dropping a liner down that chimney without increasing the size of the connector isn't going to accomplish what they're shooting for. Of course we have yet to establish what exactly is in that picture. Is it a prefab thimble? Is the connector actually a class-A section or something elset? Is it 6"?

 

[bholler]

I think I can say with a fair amount of confidence, I'd go as high as 98.63%, that a 6" snout...takeoff....whatever anybody want to call it, is not going to fit inside a piece of 6" class-a chimney pipe though. A 5.5" liner has a 6" t/o also. Therefore, dropping a liner down that chimney without increasing the size of the connector isn't going to accomplish what they're shooting for. Of course we have yet to establish what exactly is in that picture. Is it a prefab thimble? Is the connector actually a class-A section or something elset? Is it 6"?

You are absolutly correct. It will not fit through the class a that will need to change.

 

[bholler]

I'm planning on removing the creosote, but I don't plan on removing the liner. just don't have the funds for that and I'm going to try cre-away and elbow grease first depending on what the guy coming out Monday has to say. It's also not leaking anymore now that I'm not turning down the thermostat as low as I was.
I can switch to and oval flex liner possibly to meet the BK 6" requirement if they nix the 5.5". I'll call BK on Monday.

But with it running like that there is tons of creosote on the outside of that liner

 

[chichas]

You are absolutly correct. It will not fit through the class a that will need to change.

Is this referring to running flex liner through a class a pipe? If so, I never was thinking that. I have no class a pipe any where if by class a were talking about rigid double wall stainless pipe.

 

[bholler]

Is this referring to running flex liner through a class a pipe? If so, I never was thinking that. I have no class a pipe any where if by class a were talking about rigid double wall stainless pipe.

Yes it really looks like your wall thimble is a peice of class a pipe.

 

[chichas]

Yes it really looks like your wall thimble is a piece of class a pipe.

ok, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying that. I can't figure out though how it has that 3' section of pipe in it and how anyone would remove it or the box it's in. It sounds like I will need to take it out and replace it with a newer thimble box. The current one is 14" square and no idea how deep into the wall it goes.

 

[chichas]

Finally found some info on the box, page 7 of this doc but it does not show a 3' section of pipe with it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...bows--ir.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2hoRnrR_HPOIapdl1JMET7

 

[chichas]

According to this manual, it's ceiling support box and that mean you would have access through the back end to secure it when you mount it in a ceiling:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...port-box.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3hJbZDlG4HjP6NYklaZ-Bj

If I found a way to remove the thimble box, the snout should attach to the backside of the fitting on the box, shouldn't it?

 

[bholler]

According to this manual, it's ceiling support box and that mean you would have access through the back end to secure it when you mount it in a ceiling:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjOi6Kq1-fYAhUCXa0KHTPlAN8QFggnMAA&url=http://www.selkirkcorp.com/~/media/selkirk/reference-documents/common/file/installation/chimney/galva-temp/s9-support-box.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3hJbZDlG4HjP6NYklaZ-Bj

If I found a way to remove the thimble box, the snout should attach to the backside of the fitting on the box, shouldn't it?

No you would need a completly different thimble that would allow the snout to pass thru it. And protect the combustible wall as well.

 

[chichas]

2 BK's. Sweet!

Only time I've had drippy creo like that was due to burning darn wet wood. Something to rule out. Just sayin. Same stove here.

Yes, totally agree. I don't have moisture meter but I've been burning wood for few years and the wood I bought this year looked good. I don't see any moisture bubbling out the ends of logs and when I put new ones in the crackle and pop, no sizzling.

 

[chichas]

No you would need a completly different thimble that would allow the snout to pass thru it. And protect the combustible wall as well.

Ok, so if i had to stay with the box I have, any idea what type of pipe and T combo I would need to use?

 

[bholler]

Ok, so if i had to stay with the box I have, any idea what type of pipe and T combo I would need to use?

I dont see how it would be possible

 

[chichas]

I dont see how it would be possible

Thanks. Any Idea then what type of thimble I could use to replace my existing? I've looked around online and I'm having a hard time determining which thimbles are best for my scenario. I think what I'm looking for is one that allows the snout to pass all the way through it correct? And then an adapter to connect snout to pipe to my double wall pipe coming off my stove?

The opening for my existing thimble is 14.25X14.25. Would something like this work (with some minor modification/framing in of existing hole)? : (broken link removed)

 

[chichas]

Good news from today's visit from the chimney sweep that came out. I don't need a liner and I don't need any work done on the chimney.
After going through the issue with him and have him look at things, I just need to not turn the thermostat down so low and change the way I burn. Chimney looks good and he says I could give it a sweep but no bad creosote issues at all. Guy could have tried to sell me a bunch of stuff I didn't need but he didn't.

On that note, I'll throw a recommendation out there for the service guy, JT, and Blacks Chimney service. If your in N. Idaho and need help, check them out!
http://www.blackschimney.com/

Thanks for all the help hearth.com guys!

 

[kennyp2339]

Time to find a new guy, one who understands how a BK operates with low flue temps due to higher efficiency stove, not like the old school thought of burn hotter

 

[HomeinPA]

Good news from today's visit from the chimney sweep that came out. I don't need a liner and I don't need any work done on the chimney.
After going through the issue with him and have him look at things, I just need to not turn the thermostat down so low and change the way I burn. Chimney looks good and he says I could give it a sweep but no bad creosote issues at all. Guy could have tried to sell me a bunch of stuff I didn't need but he didn't.

On that note, I'll throw a recommendation out there for the service guy, JT, and Blacks Chimney service. If your in N. Idaho and need help, check them out!
http://www.blackschimney.com/

Thanks for all the help hearth.com guys!

At this point I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt since he actually put eyes on it but I'm not sure I agree with him. There is a reason you have creosote leaking out of the chimney exterior and it isn't because everything is hunky-dorey. Could be a leaking cleanout door, could be open mortar joints in the flue or damaged tiles, could be a number of things. And even if everything else is ok I'm gonna go with the theory that the thimble is not correctly installed and/or sealed where it enters the terra-cotta flue and at minimum it's leaking there. Primarily because class-a pipe is not designed to be a connector to a masonry chimney. Period.

I'm half tempted to email this guy and suggest he look up this discussion and see what he has to offer.

 

[Woody Stover]

Guy could have tried to sell me a bunch of stuff I didn't need but he didn't.

If I'm not mistaken, the sweeps that post on here, and everyone else, has been telling you that you need a liner but if you choose to cheap out, good luck with that..
He touts the benefits of stainless liners, yet he didn't suggest one? Strange. And he's not bragging about any certifications either, is he?
"We have all the know-how you need." ..."and I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night."

 

[bholler]

He touts the benefits of stainless liners, yet he didn't suggest one? Strange. And he's not bragging about any certifications either, is he?
"We have all the know-how you need." ..."and I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night."

We are not there. I think i would get another opinion because from the pics it looks bad. But we cant pass judgement on this sweep without seeing it in person. We think stainless liners are great solutions for many problems but we dont recomend them to everyone. And honestly the certifications dont mean much. We are no longer certified. I have known many very good sweeps who were not certified and many hacks who were. And vise versa as well.

 

[HomeinPA]

And honestly the certifications dont mean much. We are no longer certified. I have known many very good sweeps who were not certified and many hacks who were. And vise versa as well.

Can I get an AMEN out there?!

 

[Woody Stover]

We are not there. I think i would get another opinion because from the pics it looks bad. But we cant pass judgement on this sweep without seeing it in person. We think stainless liners are great solutions for many problems but we dont recomend them to everyone. And honestly the certifications dont mean much. We are no longer certified. I have known many very good sweeps who were not certified and many hacks who were. And vise versa as well.

Yeah, why get certified if the only people who care are a bunch of nerds on hearth.com? I guess it comes down to the individual and not the paper, as in many other cases.
If the 8"x11" measurements he gave earlier are O.D. that might draft OK for many 6" stoves. But the BKs need good draft..but not too good. If he had the moolah for a BK, you'd think he'd have enough for a liner. Anything less than a lined chimney is half-arsin' it in my book.