chainsaw twists clockwise as its cutting thru log - followup bar questions

[Jack33]

Ok, they made your chain off a reel and stuck it in a box they had lying around. Happens all the time, but they normally write the actual part number on the box, around here anyways. The box is for .043" 3/8" chain...probably wouldn't even stay on the bar/sproket a full turn.

But, the 5 on the drive link means that it is .058" gauge. It is the inncorect chain IF you have a .050" bar, which is the case in the US. .050" has a 3 on the drive link. So your chain is riding to high in the bar and twisting. I imagine the bar rails are a little higher on 1 side also and when combined with a fat chain riding high in the groove, you are getting a nice slanted cut.

Your bar doesn't look so good for only having 1 chain run on it. The rails have gotten pretty hot. If your firewood is as hard as you say, I would crank the oiler WAY up. If your bar is is really beat between the heat and the incorrect chain, I would replace it. If it was a longer (more expensive) bar I would try to save it, but a 18" bar is fairly cheap, in the US anyways. I would try to get the dealer in cover it or at least part of it. Save the old bar for stumps/roots/dirty wood/etc.

All this is assuming that your 353 came with a .050" bar in Australia. You need to make sure, it is marked on the bar.

 

[N/A N/A]

I dont know why I didnt think about the possibility of the new chain being the wrong one :roll:

 

[Apprentice_GM]

Ok, they made your chain off a reel and stuck it in a box they had lying around. Happens all the time, but they normally write the actual part number on the box, around here anyways. The box is for .043" 3/8" chain...probably wouldn't even stay on the bar/sproket a full turn.

But, the 5 on the drive link means that it is .058" gauge. It is the inncorect chain IF you have a .050" bar, which is the case in the US. .050" has a 3 on the drive link. So your chain is riding to high in the bar and twisting. I imagine the bar rails are a little higher on 1 side also and when combined with a fat chain riding high in the groove, you are getting a nice slanted cut.

Your bar doesn't look so good for only having 1 chain run on it. The rails have gotten pretty hot. If your firewood is as hard as you say, I would crank the oiler WAY up. If your bar is is really beat between the heat and the incorrect chain, I would replace it. If it was a longer (more expensive) bar I would try to save it, but a 18" bar is fairly cheap, in the US anyways. I would try to get the dealer in cover it or at least part of it. Save the old bar for stumps/roots/dirty wood/etc.

All this is assuming that your 353 came with a .050" bar in Australia. You need to make sure, it is marked on the bar.

OK, I have checked the bar, it does indeed have ".050/1 3" stamped on it as you say. Along with 18/45 (length in inches/cm's I assume?) and gold old "MADE IN USA" Now again I assume that means clearly the guage is 0.050 of an inch, although why the "/1"? I wonder if the "3" after the 0.050/1 indicates the number that should be on the drive link?

The number on the Stihl .325 chain drive link is "5". I took it into the dealer yesterday and he was adamant the chain was 0.050 guage and the reason for the bad cutting was chain wobble/twist due to overheated bar widening.

I have pushed the chain this morning and it does appear to move laterally (wobble/twist) way more than it should.

Can anyone categorically tell me that Stihl use the same drive link numbering system as Oregon, and that a "5" on the drive link indicates a 0.058" guage, which is definitely wrong for my bar? I am very hesitant to re-visit my dealer after yesterday, but if it is the wrong chain, I will need to get it replaced.

Again, thanks all so much for you contributions . . .

 

[BJ64]

"
Can anyone categorically tell me that Stihl use the same drive link numbering system as Oregon, and that a "5" on the drive link indicates a 0.058" guage, which is definitely wrong for my bar? I am very hesitant to re-visit my dealer after yesterday, but if it is the wrong chain, I will need to get it replaced.

"

Yes, Stihl and Oregon use the same system on their chains.

In my experience if the bar is burnt then the paint is also burned off and heat discoloring on the metal is quite evident. Many new bars will show some discolor about the rails due to the manufacturing process. Perhaps they harden the rails or something that causes this. I've toasted a few bars due to running out of oil (cap came off) and they get hot fast and start smoking. The heat marks from that abuse will be almost an inch wide in the area that pressure from cutting has been applied. The heat marks from the manufacturing process will be about the depth of the chain teeth and even all about.

I did not see any evidence of a heat warped or heat spread bar in your well presented pictures. In fact I have not experienced a heat "spread" bar but I have corrected pinched bars with a few taps of a hammer upon a flat screwdriver used as a wedge.

You may have the wrong chain but almost always in my case when the saw cuts crooked there is something uneven with the chain. Usually it is because I hit a rock or a fence wire and booger up a few teeth on one side or the other.

Sharpening the chain by hand is hard for me. I may be able to do one side fine but I will do badly on the other side. I use a file guide that clamps to the bar and keeps my angle and depth correct. Uneven sharpening has caused the saw to cut crooked for me.

Cutting in very hard wood will amplify any issue with the chain. In my area we have a tree called Bodarc (short for the French name of bow de arc because the Indians used it to make weapons). It is what we locally consider a hard tree. If the chain is not in good and correct condition, it will tell because of a crooked cut very much like you have pictured.

Also, most of my problems problems with the bar is evident because the chain will derail quite a bit seemingly for the heck of it.

I like to use Stihl chain but I always used Oregon chain on the Husky saws I have had in the past because the dealer I was using only sold that brand of chain.

I have never replaced a drive sprocket but will agree that I should have. I have never had a problem of cutting crooked because of the drive sprocket.

I strongly suspect the problem is with the chain. In almost all cases that I have had with crooked cuts have been corrected by properly sharpening the chain.

 

[woodconvert]

Ewe...wish i'd seen the pics and read the rest of the post yesterday. That bar is rough!. Well, it looks like the others have set you straight...other than lose the safety chain and get a chisel chain.

 

[Jack33]

Stihl chain identification....

http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/identify.html

 

[savageactor7]

OK, I have done some of what was suggested . . . first off, I am a bit embarrassed, but the chain is not oregon, it's Stihl. When I bought it I brought my old chain to the dealer and told him my model of chainsaw (Husqvana 353) and he looked up an Oregon Chain Catalog in front of me, then went and got the chain, I just grabbed the box with a few other bits and pieces and went home and fitted the chain, which is why I thought it was Oregon.

Whoops just saw that...I have to problem buying loops but they should be hanging freely then placed in a convenient carry home box in fount of you.

Stihl and Oregon are both good chains Apprentice so either brand correctly fitted will get the job done. I just prefer Oregon cause for me there easier to hand sharped.

Now since a different chain was in the box what I would do if I was stumped at a problem, is just bring the saw to the dealer, lay it on the counter and say 'what do I need to keep this saw running correctly?'

Once your set up correctly the only other recommendation I would make is that you take your time and let the saw do the cutting. Don't use those spiked bumpers as a fulcrum to force the handle bar threw the wood...just let the chain do all the cutting. That is so important to making good long last production.

 

[Apprentice_GM]

Apprentice how did you make out with your chain and bar problem? I was looking for your post a couple of days ago and couldn't find it ... just figured your back in business and all was well.

thx for your interest, i did some work on the bar, and when flipped, the new bottom is better than the old bottom, so it cuts straighter. Still has a tendency to want to twist tho, but now I know why - the chain a bit loose in the bar - I can counter slightly in technique and improve the cut.

However, no doubt the chain is too loose laterally in the slot, and it certainly seems it's because the stihl chain (5 on link) is .058" whereas bar is definitely .050" so chain sits a bit high. I haven't returned to dealer to confront yet - reluctant to.

 

[kevin j]

haven’t returned to dealer to confront yet - reluctant to.



understandable, but you are not being a jerk, nor accusing or attacking.
simply point out you were given the wrong part, want to get the right parts, that his error may have damaged your bar but that are willing to overlook that. You have every right to get the part you paid for, and the expertise that the dealer is supposed to have when he gave you the part for the application/saw you told him.

assertive, not aggressive, you have every right to get what you paid for.
least that's what I pushed to my kids..... seems to have worked pretty well.

k

 

[pdboilermaker]

Your chain is sharper on one side than the other as for the problems getting/finding chains we use baileysonline.com they are pros. They can hook you up in no time at all. They are pros

 

[savageactor7]

I wouldn't be reluctant to go back to the dealer...you're doing him the favor by bringing attention...in a subtle way...that he's putting the wrong loops in boxes. Trust me soon as you're out the door he's gonna recheck every box so that doesn't happen again. A lot of guys would raise hell...but I don't recommend that you do that cause it the long run dealers can be a big help with advice and what not. It's an asset you really want to cultivate.

In a very polite way just bring the saw back to him and ask that he check it out cause that chain was not cutting square right out of the box. Good luck brother and keep us posted.

 

[Apprentice_GM]

Your chain is sharper on one side than the other as for the problems getting/finding chains we use baileysonline.com they are pros. They can hook you up in no time at all. They are pros

pdboilermaker, that's simply not the case. As per mine and other earlier posts in this thread, it was doing that out of the box AND after a (shop) sharpen. The other posters suggesting the chain gauge was incorrect were far closer to the mark.

Also, I am Down Under so it isn't reasonable to use your suggested online retailer - postage would be a killer for a start.

 

[Apprentice_GM]

I wouldn't be reluctant to go back to the dealer...you're doing him the favor by bringing attention...in a subtle way...that he's putting the wrong loops in boxes. Trust me soon as you're out the door he's gonna recheck every box so that doesn't happen again. A lot of guys would raise hell...but I don't recommend that you do that cause it the long run dealers can be a big help with advice and what not. It's an asset you really want to cultivate.

In a very polite way just bring the saw back to him and ask that he check it out cause that chain was not cutting square right out of the box. Good luck brother and keep us posted.

Savageactor7, and others who have helped me through this issue, I did take it back to the dealer AGAIN today. I started by explaining what we've gone through already, and this time the dealer said he put the 0.058" gauge chain on my bar because my bar was worn and widened, and if he had fit the "correct" gauge it would be even more loose. This is crap and my level of trust in this dealer dropped markedly. I then asked about getting a new bar for my saw, so he looked up his catalogue and said he would order an 18" | .325 | 0.058" bar. I said why not get a 0.050" bar LIKE I ALREADY HAVE and he did a double take so I showed him my bar (AGAIN). He then said someone had fitted the incorrect bar to my saw as his catalogue said the the normal bar that came with my Husky 353XP was a 0.058" bar. I said to him it didn't matter what bar was fitted to the saw - as long as it was within Husky spec - the important thing was to match the chain to the bar.

That's when I figured out what had gone wrong.

When I went in to buy my new chain, I took my saw and bar (and old chain) with me, and he looked up his catalog to see what chain I needed, then counted the teeth on my old chain, went and made up a new chain, then put it in the (wrong but doesn't matter) box. However, he never looked at my bar. His catalog - a Stihl chain catalog - said that the Husky 353XP w 18" bar usually came with a 0.058" gauge so that's what he made up. I, not knowing these finer points and trusting my dealer's knowledge, went and started cutting crooked curves through logs. In the process, because the chain was too wide a gauge for the bar, the bar was wearing and overheating and making the crooked cutting worse. I have now pretty much stuffed the bar, with it worn down on one side of one edge much more than the other.

The dealer tried to talk himself out of the mistake he has so obviously made, but I simply don't trust him any more. It turns out, he has sold the business a few weeks ago, and is in the process of handing over to a new guy. So he doesn't give a stuff about fixing the mistake, like replacing the chain and/or bar with new correct gear - that's the new guys problem.

So, in the end, I ordered a new bar and chain, and with the knowledge I now have about chains and bars - thanks to this forum - will ensure they are matched to each other and the saw when I pick them up. I decided to order a 0.058" bar so I can use the current, used, chain on the new bar as well as the new chain (I will then have a good chain and a not-so-good chain for the new bar).

Finally, thanks so much for all your help, I am very confident I have identified and resolved the problem, and hope by leaving this post and thread others might be able to identify and/or avoid similar issues in future.

And of course I have learned some valuable lessons:
1) Don't trust dealers knowledge exclusively. They can make mistakes or can be ignorant and can be unwilling to make amends.
2) Go to the trouble to learn the specifics of chainsaw chain markings and part numbers to ensure they match manufacturer specifications for the saw.
3) If something appears off or wrong at first don't perservere and deal with it later. It will probably only get worse.
4) The chainsaw chain guage must match the chainsaw bar gauge, neither too small nor too large. In my case, I should have investigated first and therefore known a Stihl chain with "5" on the drive link was a 0.058" gauge and therefore not matching my 0.050" bar.

The annoying thing for me is that I have already learnt these lessons before but broke the rules this time. I take my car to a trusted mechanic for servicing because I don't have the time and expertise to learn and do all that stuff and thought I could do the same for my chainsaw. I also hate having to stop halfway through a task or project to fix or figure out a problem.

 

[Apprentice_GM]

I was wondering if I can grind the old bar down to even it up, so even though I will only use it for cutting crap wood - wood with potential nails / wire / dirt / stones and things like stumps - it will still cut straighter than it does now.

I have an angle grinder and narrow - about 1" wide - bench grinder and some flat files. Any suggestions as to the best method to use, or even if it is worth it or not?

 

[savageactor7]

Well it's good that you finally got it all sorted out Apprentice ...very frustrating when something simple like removing a few trees turns into a goat screw and you can't lock down the problem. I can almost visualize the grim on your puss when you look to see the square cuts LOL...

...I've used a bench grinder on my bar to clean up the typical things from prolonged saw use but not to repair something like the uneven wear you describe but I'm sure if your careful and check for the squareness on the rails sure, why not?

I'm surprised the dealer didn't offer to square up your bar with his grinder...hell that would just be a few minutes of his time. Good luck with your wood cutting.

 

[Backroads]

Glad to hear this is rectified. Just too bad the dealer won't make good on his mistake. Key lesson for everyone to learn:

Get to know your equipment!!

 

[Apprentice_GM]

Well I ground the bar down a little using a 1" bench grinder for the initial touch up, then a flat metal file for the rest. I definitely got the bar heaps better than the uneven wear state it was in, due to the mis-matched chain. I estimate one side was 2.5mm lower than the other before I started, I got it back to within 0.5mm, and the edge nice and flat across the slot (it had a bit of a burr and taper). So the old bar is in heaps better condition and will definitely serve me OK in cutting rubbish stumps and wood up.

What I'd like some more advice on is if I can swap chains across bars. Both chains are .325 | 72 teeth | 0.058" guage but the old chain has worn a bit from being used in the old bar, 0.050" guage. The new bar is 0.058" - I bought this guage hoping I could use the old chain in it if needs be, but having fitted it, it seems a bit loose (how loose is too loose laterally?).

Here are some pics to help - all chains were put on the bar on the saw and tensioned before photographing:

New oregon 0.058" bar with new Stihl 0.058" chain - perfect, reference pic:

New oregon 0.058" bar with old Stihl 0.058" chain - bit loose laterally but seems OK to cut with:

Old Husqvarna 0.050" bar with new Stihl 0.058" chain - first of all seems too high in slot (I wish I had been cluey enough when I bought the first 0.058" chain to realise this is too high and would cause all these problems, but I have learnt my lesson, and hope others can learn from my mistake), leading to sideways/lateral movement (which is the original cause of the problem in this thread) and second it will probably wear the bar and the chain unevenly and more than it should, so I think I will avoid this combo:

Old Husqvarna 0.050" bar with old Stihl 0.058" chain - tighter than old chain in new bar combo and I have already used combo:

 

[Apprentice_GM]

Well I cut some wood today, felled 4 x conifer trees each with 3 trunks, and limbed and bucked half of it. The good news is, I did it with the old bar and chain, and it cuts straight again now It's so nice to cut STRAIGHT through a trunk with a sharp chain . . . thanks for all your help on this.

If anyone still wants to give some advice on the previous post combo's I'd be glad to take it.

 

[kevin j]

personally, now that you have a good bar and good chain, I'd not risk changing the wear patterns and messing up and starting the mess all over. Think of it sort of like a virus infecting the new combination.
For $10, buy more chains, use the old for fence rows and boundary trees. You really want a half dozen chains or more anyway....

kcj

 

[Apprentice_GM]

For $10, buy more chains, use the old for fence rows and boundary trees. You really want a half dozen chains or more anyway....kcj

My chains cost $44 each (Stihl oilomatic3 0.325 0.058" 72 teeth) which with the exchange rate atm is ~US$39 each. I wouldn't mind chains at that price!

But I hear your advice, I will keep each combo separate (old bar/old chain and new bar/new chain) unless desparate in which case I will only do old chain onto new bar, to prevent new chain wearing badly or damaging old bar further. I doubt the old (0.058" guage) worn chain used in the 0.050" bar will damage the new bar - I'd only do that if desparate.

Just out of interest, what do you mean by fence rows and boundary trees? Are these trees more likely to have dirt in the bark from acting as windbreaks or something?

 

[savageactor7]

Trees along fence rows or boundary trees can have old barb wire fencing, insulaters and nails in them...back in the day some people instead of using fencing posts would use trees to put up fencing wire. Over time the tree grows around those saw hazzards so you can't see them. Often I use an old chain when cutting down a boundary tree at least for the 1st 5 or 6 ft of trunk...

...and the trees growing around houses can have them too with people hanging up bird houses and close lines etc.