chainsaw fuel

[ABMax24]

So where would you purchase AVgas outside of an airport?

The airport. Requires an inside connection usually though.

 

[ABMax24]

I should note that I do run a lead scavenging agent as well (Decalin RunUp) so that the lead oxide does not build up.

Amazing something fire right up after sitting for 5 years with AVGAS. Ethanol free pump gas wont do that.

AVGAS doesn't have that rank smell that soaks into your skin and evaporates off quickly when spilled. I can't stand the smell of pump gas soaking into my skin with the tiniest of spills. I buy a years worth at a time and store it in 6 gallon race cans.

I'll have to try lead scavenger. I have the issue of 100LL rusting out the pipe on my snowmobile and muffler on my saw. Saw gets pump gas now, sled I don't have a choice, it needs 100LL.

 

[RockyMtnGriz]

Thanks all. I have 4 saws but my primaries are the Echo CS590 and 490, and I use them fairly often. I'll probably do E10 high octane with Echo engine oil and sta-bil mixed in. And will go with low volume so it stays fresh. Just measn I'll need to get gas more often. I typically only stop when my saw runs dry so don't usually leave it with any fuel anyway.

If I couldn't get ethanol free, I wouldn't bother with high octane. Check your manual, but the stuff doesn't need it. 87 or even 85 (at altitude) will be fine. If I could get one of those ethanol free, I'd use it. They worked great for me in the years before ethanol fuel.

I can only get ethanol free in premium, so I pay up for it, add stabilizer when I buy it (maybe unnecessary), mix my 2 stroke fuel from that, as well as use that for end of season or long term storage situations. I make sure it gets used or changed out to be used in something else at least every year.

Avgas is good, but you're breathing lead when you're smelling the saw, plus the lead does nothing good for spark plugs, and can't help the valves you don't have. I used a lot of it in the past because I had a cheap easy source, but I wouldn't seek it out now if I could get ethanol free some other way.

FWIW - While you can't operate an engine on it (idling is okay), one thing that's worked well for me is Coleman fuel. The stuff doesn't seem to go bad in 20+ years, and it doesn't seem to leave a residue when it evaporates. And, it's gas, so it's not potentially incompatible like brake clean or something. If I have something like fuel injectors or a gerotor pump that has been used, but I want to carry as a spare or store indefinitely, I flush it with that. Same with an engine I may not use for years. Last bite of fuel is Coleman. It hasn't let me down so far. Doing the same with any pump gas sure has.

 

[peakbagger]

Most smaller rural airports are run by FBOs (FIxed Base Operators) that are profit making and generally are pretty receptive to selling fuel to anyone showing up with a proper can and credit card. The smaller the airport the better, preferably without commercial flights as security requirements are lot less strict.

 

[nola mike]

Phase separation is real problem, but easily resolved by not letting old fuel sit in unused equipment for extended periods without stabilizer.

And real tractors run on Diesel.

Phase separation is only kind of a real problem, in that it isn't limited to e10. Ethanol's ability to absorb water is the only reason that it can phase separate. E0 will have the first drop of water introduced to the system sitting at the bottom of the tank ...

 

[nola mike]

The problem ethanol laced fuel when it sits is evaporation of the ethnol. It leaves a residue behind, that is what gums things up. some of the carb cleaners won't even phase that residue. i have one unit not run very often i do not even attemp to start it with out first pulling the selinoid out for the fuel shut off and cleaning it - it is always jammed up by the ethanol.

It isn't the ethanol. When ethanol evaporates, you're left with ... Nothing. Gumming up is the oxidation of the gas

 

[salecker]

I should note that I do run a lead scavenging agent as well (Decalin RunUp) so that the lead oxide does not build up.

Amazing something fire right up after sitting for 5 years with AVGAS. Ethanol free pump gas wont do that.

AVGAS doesn't have that rank smell that soaks into your skin and evaporates off quickly when spilled. I can't stand the smell of pump gas soaking into my skin with the tiniest of spills. I buy a years worth at a time and store it in 6 gallon race cans.

I started a saw for a customer that had been sitting for 6+ years
I warned him it might not be fixed anymore
6 pulls and it started and idled.
Regular pump gas,some oil mixed 32:1 plus Seafoam

 

[blades]

when ethanol evaps you are left with water it has absorbed from the atmosphere and whatever other contaminates that have been absorbed by the H2O prior to that. to that extent one then has to look at the reactive agents to /with water and its contaminents in the petroleum product to determin what the xxxx is causing the deposits. so in my simple mind either i blame it on ethanol or less than adequate product from the refineries. fun huh

 

[nola mike]

when ethanol evaps you are left with water it has absorbed from the atmosphere and whatever other contaminates that have been absorbed by the H2O prior to that. to that extent one then has to look at the reactive agents to /with water and its contaminents in the petroleum product to determin what the xxxx is causing the deposits. so in my simple mind either i blame it on ethanol or less than adequate product from the refineries. fun huh

Ethanol doesn't magically suck up water from the atmosphere. If water gets into your gas, then yes, after the ethanol evaporates the water will no longer be in solution. If water gets into your e0, then it never gets into solution and is laying at the bottom of your tank immediately.

 

[ericm979]

100LL has a lot of lead in it. It's only "low" lead in comparison with the older 130 which had an extreme amount of lead. 100LL has more lead than leaded road fuel did. Since the saw's exhaust exits right where the operator is standing and breathing, you're going to breathe a lot of exhaust fumes. With lead. The lead isn't going to kill you right away but it's definitely not healthy to ingest a lot of it.

Two strokes don't need lead for anything. It's just a contaminant that also happens to be toxic.

Avgas is designed for low rpm airplane engines that don't run faster than about 3500 rpm. It's slower burning than 14k rpm chainsaws need. Which means that unless you advance the timing, there will be more unburnt fuel in the exhaust. If you advance the timing, then the saw will run hotter. Saw engineers are pretty conservative so you can probably get away with it, but it will be that much closer to risking a seizure. Saws are designed to run on pump gas.

100LL is about 96 octane using the same method that's used for road fuel. If I had a two stroke that needed high octane I'd run unleaded race gas, possibly mixed with pump fuel to reduce cost, depending on octane needs.

 

[Nealm66]

I run premium pump gas because mix lowers the octane, usually shell or chevron and stihl mix. I did have an 026 way back that needed the new lines but then it was fine but my saws etc don’t sit much. When ethanol first reared its ugly head I over heard a conversation on running dry for storage and heard a bit of diesel mixed with the last tank for long term. No clue since nothing really sits on my end

 

[cahaak]

Ethanol in gasoline isn't an issue for storage. As noted, oxidation and polymerization of any unsaturated components in the fuel is. Dry fuel, in a saw or other two stroke stored over the winter with a stabilizer is not an issue. Things wills tart right up again in the spring. If many years storage is the goal, then the system should be fully drained and run dry. There is really no need to run fancy fuels in a modern two stroke. With the proper two stroke oil and a stabilizer when stored, things will be just fine. Modern refining makes pretty high quality fuel these days.