creeker said:
Send that dangerous 041 to me. And I'll see to it that it gets destroyed
!Glad I could help!
Chain saw accident
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Send that dangerous 041 to me. And I'll see to it that it gets destroyed
!Glad I could help!
There are a few good videos on Youtube about "chainsaw kickback". Some really useless ones too, so use at your own risk. I wear chaps, gloves, hardhat with shield and ear protection. I never cut in line with my head, always offset. I never ever use the end of the bar. If my chain is loose or if it isn't sharp and I'm throwing dust instead of fine woodchips, I stop and sharpen the blade. I try and pay attention to the lay of the log and figure out where the pressure/load is, and either cut from above or below to avoid pinching the blade.
I actually know more people that were injured from log splitters than I do from chainsaws. But that is another topic. The whole process can be dangerous and everyone should always consider safety and the use of PPE.
I actually know more people that were injured from log splitters than I do from chainsaws. But that is another topic. The whole process can be dangerous and everyone should always consider safety and the use of PPE.
I would tend to say that the argument for smaller saws causing more accidents is probably a combination of things...
1. The inexperienced user is more likely to have a small saw...
2. The big box stores that sell more of the little saws DON'T sell the gear to go with them - I've never seen ANY PPE in the chainsaw dept at HD, and their website doesn't list much - If as they tell you all the time on the PA, they care about safety, how come they don't sell the gear?
3. Little saws are lighter - so people are more likely to use them overhead or in other non-safe positions.
4. Little saws are easier to swing around, making them a lot more tempting for brush clearing and other high kickback likelihood uses, plus encouraging people to be careless when placing the saw bar. A heavier saw encourages more deliberate movements just because it's harder... I could (but don't) one-hand my Pull-on, no way could I one-hand my Dolmar... Which saw are you more likely to climb a tree or go up a ladder with?
5. Little saws are like little dogs - they get no respect - yet every delivery guy I've talked to says the "Yappamatics" are MORE likely to latch onto your ankle, and their owners are far less likely to keep them under tight control... Big saws with long bars are SCARY, so they get treated with more caution...
Bottom line - I think it's a safe bet that most accidents are caused by people doing "stupid chit" and little saws are more likely to be the saw of choice when being stupid...
As to the "safety chain" issue - I keep saying it's a bad name, as the only SAFE chain on a saw is the metal bead chain you will find on some kids toy saws... Any chain can and WILL kick back under the right conditions, and any moving chain WILL do serious damage to you on contact... But we get told how the "reduced kickback" chain is safer, will prevent us from having accidents, and yadada yada... So consciously or not, we take more chances when using it... IMHO while it is slightly less likely that a "safety chain" will kick back than a full chisel - even though ANY chain made today has at least some anti-kickback features built into it, and benefits from being run on todays narrower bars that also reduce kickback, the reduction in risk is not that great, and isn't worth enough to justify the loss in cutting performance...
Gooserider
1. The inexperienced user is more likely to have a small saw...
2. The big box stores that sell more of the little saws DON'T sell the gear to go with them - I've never seen ANY PPE in the chainsaw dept at HD, and their website doesn't list much - If as they tell you all the time on the PA, they care about safety, how come they don't sell the gear?
3. Little saws are lighter - so people are more likely to use them overhead or in other non-safe positions.
4. Little saws are easier to swing around, making them a lot more tempting for brush clearing and other high kickback likelihood uses, plus encouraging people to be careless when placing the saw bar. A heavier saw encourages more deliberate movements just because it's harder... I could (but don't) one-hand my Pull-on, no way could I one-hand my Dolmar... Which saw are you more likely to climb a tree or go up a ladder with?
5. Little saws are like little dogs - they get no respect - yet every delivery guy I've talked to says the "Yappamatics" are MORE likely to latch onto your ankle, and their owners are far less likely to keep them under tight control... Big saws with long bars are SCARY, so they get treated with more caution...
Bottom line - I think it's a safe bet that most accidents are caused by people doing "stupid chit" and little saws are more likely to be the saw of choice when being stupid...
As to the "safety chain" issue - I keep saying it's a bad name, as the only SAFE chain on a saw is the metal bead chain you will find on some kids toy saws... Any chain can and WILL kick back under the right conditions, and any moving chain WILL do serious damage to you on contact... But we get told how the "reduced kickback" chain is safer, will prevent us from having accidents, and yadada yada... So consciously or not, we take more chances when using it... IMHO while it is slightly less likely that a "safety chain" will kick back than a full chisel - even though ANY chain made today has at least some anti-kickback features built into it, and benefits from being run on todays narrower bars that also reduce kickback, the reduction in risk is not that great, and isn't worth enough to justify the loss in cutting performance...
Gooserider
I saw this link earlier and posted it in another forum. Was a real sad story. Regardless, some people are not designed to run equipment. I have been in construction since 1982, in one form or another. From the Structural steel workers union in NY, to Wooden boats in Australia, to my own co. in NH. When I worked with some people you just could tell that they had no idea of the dymanics and physics at work with cutting, either, steel, wood, or timber. Not saying I know the circumstances of the above situation, but HD, and other big box stores do not care who they sell to. If you were on my job, we would all know whether you could handle the equipment or not, and we made the appropriate changes. The sales people at the stores have no idea the capabilities of the consumer, they empower the consumer, and the consumer walks away with a chain saw, skill saw, tile saw, etc. and the Consumer feels like they have some sort of skills they did not have before they walked into the store. this poor individual had a untimely accident, and we will not know the circumstances, but we will know what our own skills are and what our own level should be. Personally since I use saws all the time and I am responsible from a owner point of view for safety for other people, we only use professional gear, but, I also know through experience and observation, who should be and who should not be using my equipment and saws. But the sales force at the 'stores' never get to know.
Safety chain is less likely to kick-back, but only less likely. Any of them will. If you don't know what you are doing, get someone to show you how to safely use saws. I don't know what this guy did, as in plane crashes it was probably a collection of errors and circumstances that added up. Things happen extremely fast with saws, or can. Faster than we can react, in some cases. An experienced local guy here tried to cut off a very small diameter limb [2"] at chest height, though he later said he knew before he did it that he shouldn't [should have put down the chainsaw and picked up his hand saw]. Saw kicked back and cut him vertically thru his face. Over a year of plastic surgery and recovery. He made it, barely, and looks significantly different nowadays. It only takes one single instance of being tired or careless and your life can be either ended or radically changed.
Hasn't stopped me from using my saws.
Hasn't stopped me from using my saws.
^ chest height is dangerous cause it's so relaxing to bend that left elbow and take it easy. DON'T EVER DO THAT. You're better off to step back and straighten up the left arm. The farther that working chain is away from you the better off you are.
Exactly - all those little things need to be thought about, not what type of chain. Where are my arms, my feet, what is around me...
Was cutting up a neighbors downed tree the other day. Every type of obstacle you could imagine, as usual with a downed tree. Small branches/brush to clear and move or trip on, broken bits to step on and twist an ankle, half a tree still standing - and all that with a chain saw roaring in your hands. Take it slow and stop when tired. I did not even get half the work done that i had planned but when I started getting tired [when I tripped for the second time], I put the gear away and began the clean up...
...even though there was still light out...
Was cutting up a neighbors downed tree the other day. Every type of obstacle you could imagine, as usual with a downed tree. Small branches/brush to clear and move or trip on, broken bits to step on and twist an ankle, half a tree still standing - and all that with a chain saw roaring in your hands. Take it slow and stop when tired. I did not even get half the work done that i had planned but when I started getting tired [when I tripped for the second time], I put the gear away and began the clean up...
...even though there was still light out...
Bottom line do you guys think this saw had a chain brake? If not do you think a chain brake would have saved his life? Personally I think the saw probably didn't have a chain brake or it didn't engage if it did have one.
carbon neutral said:
this guy takes it in the chest there no safty gear for that because it just doesnt happen sounds like no break and maybe working above his head or standing on a ladder
Wow, what a sad and terrible story, can't let my wife see this one. Thanks for bringing to our attention, this type of sobering news is excatly what you need to see before heading to backyard with the saw.
I would bet "savageactor" has it right. Without a strong arm to trigger the anti kickback, the chain just proceeded to chew him up in a micro second. That's why it's so important to learn from anothers unfortunate accident. Be safe.savageactor7 said:
Ed
Ken45 said:
Sounds like a worn clutch. If you're mechanical, its an easy fix.
My 041 is my favorite firewood saw. Damn dependable.
I use my little 210 for a lot of the small stuff. But feel a lot safer using the 041 even without the brake. There's real potential for injury when you're bogging in the cut.
I'm pretty happy with the range of saws I've assembled. There's a few I use less often not in my signature. But it's a good thing to have a variety for different applications.
CrawfordCentury said:
I would be more inclined to think overly high idle speed rather than worn clutch... Symptom I usually think of for a worn clutch is the chain not moving in the cut while the engine is running at (or near) full speed... OTOH, if the idle is a little on the high side even a new clutch will hook up...
Gooserider
I always try to hold my saw with my left arm nearly straight up and down, so if it kicks my forearm will definitely be in line to hit the chain brake. It looks goofy but doesn't tire my arm out any more than it would normally, and I really think it's a good practice. If anyone has other advice let's hear it - most of us are cutting wood alone and the more info that's out there the better.
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